02-09-2013, 07:50 PM
#1
  • Kavik79
  • Active Member
  • Albany, NY - USA
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Hello all,
I just bought my first Morris & Forndran brush and unfortunately I'm afraid it needs to be re-knotted Sad

I've read a few write ups about steaming out the knots, but I've never done it myself. I've also seen comments saying how different manufacturers use different types of glue to secure their knots, how some come out easier than others, etc. I was hoping to hear from anyone who's done it specifically on one from this manufacturer. Any pointers or ideas of what I should expect for steam time?


Currently it's a 23x51 2 band blonde badger with a shedding problem. I was considering replacing with a Superfine 2 band from WSP...but would be open to also hearing other knot suggestions that would be similar to the original knot?

Thanks in advance

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 02-09-2013, 11:25 PM
#2
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If you purchased it new, I would contact Lee Sabini and he will gladly resolve the issue. If it was a BST purchase, that's another story obviously. How much is it shedding? There was a period last year where Lee had briefly changed glues and many brushes shipped as major shedders. He quickly fixed the issue and all the brushes prior to and since seem to be great.

WSP knots are wonderful, both the SuperFine and HMW would be great choices for a re-knot. I am sure someone else will chime in regarding the knot removal, as I have no personal experience removing one. Sorry to hear of your issue. Maybe give it some time to see if the shedding settles?

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 02-09-2013, 11:58 PM
#3
  • Kavik79
  • Active Member
  • Albany, NY - USA
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It was used, the seller is being a true gentleman working to make it right and it was my choice to keep the handle and not take the full refund I was offered, no problems there.

It's been through approximately a dozen uses between myself and previous owners, so I would think it would be out of the initial shedding period.
Plus, last owner had no issues, I don't know why it started now, if it was something to do with the shipping or just bad timing, bad luck, or what....but anyway, I'm averaging about a dozen hairs lost on each use, sometimes closer to 20. Bowl lathering, painting face strokes, single pass only, followed by rinsing, gentle shakes and air drying for 24-48 hours. Using more delicately then I treat any other brush, the number of hairs lost has increased with each use, rather than decreasing Undecided

It's really a shame too, I was liking the way this one felt/performed a LOT


I was considering the WSP HMW, I have the monarch brush with that knot and thought it would be perfection with just a slightly shorter loft, but I thought this might be a good chance to try out their 2 Band Superfine and do another HMW in a custon handle somewhere down the road...I'd like a little variety Smile


At any rate, I received a pm suggesting that I might want to consider drilling it out instead of steaming it out, for the sake of the stamps on the handle, I think I'll give it a go that way when the time comes that I'm ready to do this

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 02-10-2013, 01:54 AM
#4
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In my opinion, it would be best to contact Lee if you want the original hair or if you want to try something else then Shavemac has a very nice reknotting service.

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 02-10-2013, 08:35 AM
#5
  • Kavik79
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  • Albany, NY - USA
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Both good ideas, but a diy project would keep the price down a bit and be a good learning experience Wink

......and then there was this crazy idea that there's a lot of extra handle material on this one, I almost think it could be opened up enough to step up to a larger knot. Which gives me even more decisions to make. I'm not going to rush into anything yet though, going to just set it aside for now and think on it for a while

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 02-10-2013, 09:51 AM
#6
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What a bummer. I would at least try contacting Lee about it. If you want to reknot it yourself I recommend a Shavemac knot.

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 02-10-2013, 09:59 AM
#7
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(02-10-2013, 08:35 AM)Kavik79 Wrote: ......and then there was this crazy idea that there's a lot of extra handle material on this one, I almost think it could be opened up enough to step up to a larger knot.

That's a great idea, but you do want to be careful and make sure you take your time. I've opened up several vintage handles,,,, most successfully, some not. It can be easy to mess one up, I know Blush

Good luck.

-Moe

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 02-10-2013, 11:03 AM
#8
  • Kavik79
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  • Albany, NY - USA
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Moe; If I do go that route, I may enlist some help.

Guild; are you recommending Shavemac because they have something similar to the M&F Blonde knot? Or just because you like them in general?
The only Shavemac I own is a D01 3 Band silvertip that I enjoy very much, but it's not the kind of knot I'd want in this brush. I don't know what their other knots are like though.

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 02-10-2013, 11:30 AM
#9
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(02-10-2013, 11:03 AM)Kavik79 Wrote: Moe; If I do go that route, I may enlist some help.

Guild; are you recommending Shavemac because they have something similar to the M&F Blonde knot? Or just because you like them in general?
The only Shavemac I own is a D01 3 Band silvertip that I enjoy very much, but it's not the kind of knot I'd want in this brush. I don't know what their other knots are like though.

Happy to help if I can.

I think many would recommend the Shavemac D01 2-band as a high-end replacement knot in the spirit of the M&F Blond Badger. I have both M&F Blond Badger and a D01 2-band and would say that the D01 2-band is about as close to Blond Badger as you might get without actually buying a new M&F. I don't have any experience with the Whipped dog or WSP knots, but I like the TGN 2-band finest XH (with extra hair), if a D01 is out of the price range i'd probably suggest that.

Another option if you don't have, or have access to the right tools is to have Rudy Vey do your re-knot for you....... I had Rudy put a Shavemac D01 2-band into a Kent BK8 handle. Now it's one of my favorite brushes.

-Moe

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 02-10-2013, 06:00 PM
#10
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The Shavemac knots are the only ones I've tried that equal Lee's. I've not tried their two-band however.
(02-10-2013, 11:03 AM)Kavik79 Wrote: Guild; are you recommending Shavemac because they have something similar to the M&F Blonde knot? Or just because you like them in general?

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 02-10-2013, 07:46 PM
#11
  • TonyN
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  • Lawrenceville, GA US
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The WSP 2-band knots are a really nice knot. More dense than a D01 3-band. The tips are softer than a M&F 2-band and still nice backbone as long as set at the right loft.

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 02-10-2013, 08:12 PM
#12
  • Kavik79
  • Active Member
  • Albany, NY - USA
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Moe; I may have changed my mind about going wider. I took the brush out and stared at it for a while and I think I decided one of the things I liked about the handle design is directly related to the "shoulders" that curve in at the top to the knot. Going wider would change that top profile too much.
I also re-measured it myself, I come up with 24.9mm where the knot meets the handle and a 53mm loft, as opposed to the 23x51 that it was listed as.
While I don't specifically mind spending more for a better quality knot, I've already got a fair chunk of money into the handle at this point, so I don't want to go crazy


guildx500; thanks for the follow up Smile


Tony; Thanks for the input Biggrin
If I'm looking at the 23mm 2-band knot, with about 25mm at the opening of the handle...and I think I'd like to end up with around 50-52mm loft. That should provide decent backbone?
Unfortunately the WSP site doesn't list the overall length of the bare knots. I'll try measuring from the picture on the site, but without having done this before I have no idea if that's a reasonable height to expect without having to force it in
Edit: measured as best I could, trying to create a straight line behind the penny in their pic, to find the other side of the base for a reference.....and it appears to be about 70mm from the tip to the hair to the bottom of the plug
Edit 2: Scratch that, I just saw that the site says the glue plugs are narrower than the knot measurements, so my numbers are all off. I'll just PM Lee and ask LOL

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