02-14-2013, 11:43 AM
#1
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My original post was written just after I shaved with a Thäter 4292/4 H 23 mm Fan 2-Band for the first time.
It may have been very frank and could possible lead to some Thäter fans out there feeling stepped on their toes by my words, so I have chosen to edit my original post and change the head line - I am after all a mature individual, and as said my first post was my honest and sincere reaction to a shave with one of my new Thäter from my haul back in December (yes, I still have 27 brushes in line I have yet to use for the first time - I buy and sell a lot of brushes)

I would like to thank Teiste, the administrator on Shave Nook, for defending my honest opinion and honest words and for taking a stand and draw a line in this thread. It was threads like this one that incidentally gave me trouble at that other well known forum, a forum I still think is full of very very nice friendly people, that I still miss from time to time.

But I moved on, and so did they !

Now I'm here, and from time to time I write and express my honest opinions on brushes, razors and shaving creams - some will of course disagree with what I have to say, and some times I may act a bit childish and immature in the way I express myself, for that I would like to apologize. But I'm still just stating my honest opinion. No more, no less.

Also English is not my first language, so some times I may express myself in bit of a rude way for lack of proper more well suited words.....please bare over with me for that....

I did not start out buying 8 Thäters. I bought a 49125/2 26 mm 2-Band Bulb from nassrasur, a German shop with very good connections with Thäter.

The brush performed pretty good, I still did not see why Thäters got all that praise, but it still was a very solid performer and the black-plexiglas handle is just an awesome idea for a handle IMHO.

The brush was medium to heavy in density of the hair, and I admit it did feel very very soft on my face, when I face lathered with it.
The bulb knot was very pointy so I could be very precise with its 26 mm 2-Band knot.
I still felt like my Simpsons, Shavemacs, M&F, Semogue badgers and Vie Long performer better - but I was drawn into the magic of the Thäter name and the praise this brand got on the shaving forums, I admit to that.

So I ordered a new Thäter. This was a genuine horn and cost me €250 - it looked beautiful, was a 3-Band Silvertip with 52 mm loft and 24 mm knot. I bought this in another German shaving shop.

A pointy bulb shaped knot, but I honestly felt it lacked density from just looking at it and feeling the knot. I'm glad it was a bulb and not a fan shaped knot.
I used this twice before selling it. It really disappointed me performance wise :-(

Very little backbone, cloud soft feel - but floppy as a mop. Sold it. They guy who bought it was after a genuine horn brush and was in awe over buying a Thäter in genuine horn, that I had paid €250 for, used 4 times - but he also failed to see what the hype was all about once he used it. He got it for €140 shipped to Spain.

I think it's in order to tell you that I actually like softer brushes for face lathering. My third brush ever was a Mühle Sophist 3-Band Silvertip, 54 mm loft, 24 mm bulb knot. I read on the shaving forums people calling this brush floppy and useless, but that was after I received it as a present from my GF.
To my surprise I felt this Mühle performed pretty good. Yes, it was soft and kind of floppy. But it was cloud soft like the Thäters but with just enough backbone to give me a nice face lather with creams. Then I bought Kent BLK 8, and thought it was also pretty good. Floppy yes, soft yes - but pretty solid performer.
I then sold that, because I preferred it in beige, so got the Kent BK8. Still a solid performer, not my favorite brush - but still nice.

Based on that and some advice I received in PM's and mails with other fellow wet shavers I took a chance in December and got a good deal on a 5 Thäter brush haul from Straightrazordesign shop in the US.

I had a brief discussion with a guy with several Thäters in his collection that also face lathered and he told me what to expect as a face latherer. Problem is that he has very soft water and does not need a lot of backbone in brush for it to perform and create the lather in just 30 seconds. I have hard water and need backbone and solid feel for a brush to create lather directly on my face with the 50+ shaving creams I own in my collection. But I knew I took a chance, but you only live once and wanted to have a broad collection of Thäters to know what the hype was all about.

I have to say that I honestly don't get the Thäter hype
.

Thäter 2-Bands feel softer than most 3-Bands, they lack density in the knots, they have very little backbone - even less than my Kent BK8 and Mühle Sophist 3-Band Silvertip have, and these 2 are far from backbone monsters, believe me.

I then used one of the new Thäter brushes I received from the Straightrazordesign - it was the faux ivory 4125/2 in 2-Band Fan with a 26 mm knot.
Luxurious soft YES!
Backbone NO!
Weird gel like floppy feel for a face latherer YES!

Sold it to shaving friend in hope that he would understand and appreciate the qualities of this $166 Thäter shaving brush. He sold it 2 weeks later. Wonder why ?

Back to yesterday's shving experience with yet another one of my new never used before Thäter brushes.......

Just used my Thäter 4292/4 H 23 mm Fan 2-Ban for the first time.
Used a combo of Penhaligon Opus 1870 cream and TF&H Rose.

The brush made my Mühle Sophist and Kent BK8 seem like brushes with ample amounts of bakcbone. The Thäter simply felt like a soft spongy mop on my face.
Cloud soft - YES! Indeed.
The brush looked like a boar brush when wet, it had ZERO backbone, floppy as hell.

Thäter brushes just really disappoint me Dodgy

They get so much praise around here, but I have now spend $1400 on 8 Thäters - and so far the 3 of them have downright disappointed me, while two were just okay.....still at the very bottom of my Top 50 brush list.

This 4292/4 H faux horn is simply not suitable for hard water and face lathering - honestly this brush is $149 of over estimated shaving brush - this is MY personal opinion. I'm sure it will suit a bowl/scuttle latherer just fine and maybe even perform great for a face latherer with soft water. It simply just does not suit me. As said this brush makes my Mühle Sophist seem like a wall of stiff badgers Tongue

I had the same kind of feel with a Rooney 3-Band Style 1, Size 3 - a 26 mm 3-Band Silvertip with a 50 mm loft. For some reason my hard water makes these overly cloud soft brushes fell and behave like wet mops, while they are pure luxury silky soft feel to other wet shavers.

This again just proves, that wet shaving is so subjective and highly personal a thing.
YMMV can never be used enough in here, and I still tend to forget using it enough.

What I feel is a terrible performing mop of a soft mess of a brush, you may feel is the pinnacle zenith of a shaving brush, and I'm sorry if I sounded a bit immature and childish in my original post, when I was bashing my Thäter brushes - but all I did was telling you HOW I REALLY FELT ABOUT THEM AT THAT SECOND !

YMMV

[Image: 34e87r9.jpg]

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 02-14-2013, 11:47 AM
#2
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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My friend , your loss will be somebody's else gain.
I havent tried as many Thater brushes as you had , but I dont find them as good as other brands , like shavemac , and very far away from Simpson.

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 02-14-2013, 11:52 AM
#3
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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When you list them on the B/S/T, be sure to describe them as crap.Biggrin

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 02-14-2013, 01:22 PM
#4
  • Elbe
  • Member
  • Wolfsburg, Germany
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Never heard before, that Thäters are that floppy. Absolutely new to me.
And you bought five in one strike? Congratulations! Shit happens…

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 02-14-2013, 01:45 PM
#5
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Maybe this would be more appropriate to your technique Smile

[Image: 15460.MetropolisContouredScrubBrush_4.jpg]

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 02-14-2013, 02:09 PM
#6
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Claus, very mature post! I am sure just because you do not like the product it must be "crap, crap, crap". Please put them on BST so your loss can be somebody else's gain.

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 02-14-2013, 03:30 PM
#7
  • VT_Hokie
  • 2-Band Bandito
  • Charleston, SC
User Info
The only Thater I've ever used is my 4125/1. While it could be a bit denser, I find that it has very nice backbone and the most luxuriously soft tips of any brush I have ever tried.

Its a 2-Band btw.

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 02-14-2013, 03:45 PM
#8
  • Carson
  • Member
  • Adelaide, Australia
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(02-14-2013, 11:43 AM)CHSeifert Wrote: Thäter brushes really really disappoint me Dodgy

They get so much praise around here, but I have now spend $1400 on 8 Thäters - and so far the 3 of them have downright disappointed me, while two were just okay.....still at the very bottom of my Top 50 brush list.

Claus, Im not sure why it has taken 8 Thater brushes for you to realise they're not for you?

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 02-14-2013, 03:46 PM
#9
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My Thäter's are very soft and definitely lack the backbone that most of my other brushes have, but I like them because they are different. Some days I really just want a soft cotton ball of a brush to face lather my Nancy Boy with, that is the beauty of having a "rotation". If all of my brushes performed the same, shaving would be a bit boring for me. Love them for what they are Claus, or definitely sell them. They are great brushes in their own right.

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 02-14-2013, 04:10 PM
#10
  • Attila
  • The Hungarian Blade
  • Vancouver, Canada
User Info
One man's treasure is another man's....

This is why I try to avoid superlatives in regards to shaving or most things actually where personal feelings are involved. YMMV is such a big factor, but especially with our shaving products.

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 02-14-2013, 06:55 PM
#11
  • Kavik79
  • Active Member
  • Albany, NY - USA
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Maybe you could soak the brush in this, instead of water, before every shave? LOL
[Image: 011509221513.jpg]

On a more serious note, I've never tried a Thater, but at their prices I think the first one I didn't like would be enough to turn me away

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 02-14-2013, 07:43 PM
#12
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(02-14-2013, 03:30 PM)VT_Hokie Wrote: The only Thater I've ever used is my 4125/1. While it could be a bit denser, I find that it has very nice backbone and the most luxuriously soft tips of any brush I have ever tried.

Its a 2-Band btw.

I concur.

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 02-14-2013, 09:15 PM
#13
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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Some comments of this thread are out of line.I'll be personally watching it and taking action if I see that goes out of line again.Hope we can all behave and respect the opinion of the OP.We can agree or not , but again , Im not going to tolerate some comments which seems more personal attacks than to discuss a brush maker and its brushes.Hope this is very clear now.

I wont be getting any Thaters after discovering their wonderful customer service today on foroafeitado.com . I knew what happened to Phil and now whats going on with some batches of brushes , which are shedders , which some Spanish guys bought a couple months ago , and it seems that they will have to keep , since Thater and the store where they got them don't want to refund their money , either exchange them for new ones.Great customer service , Heinrich L Thater and differentscent.com ... NonoNono:shot:

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 02-14-2013, 10:34 PM
#14
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Yup, if the brushes aren't for you, by all means sell them and get something you like. That's why the b/s/t exists.

FWIW, and this probably won't help you, I have an Omega 599 silvertip that is cloud soft and I describe it as having no backbone. After buying it on the b/s/t and seeing what it was I almost never even lathered it. Yet I did and while not being an ideal brush for me, miraculously handles any soap I throw at it and does it quite nicely. I wouldn't use it as an everyday brush, though I could, but that brush of mine with no backbone is quite different, amazingly so, so I keep it.

FWIW, MikePerry just reviewed it. I thought my water was the magic that was making it work, but if I remember corectly he has hard water and it worked for him as well. Go figure. Magical brush.

Still, if they aren't working for you it's time to move on. Sell them and don't look back. You can't lather with a manufacturers reputation, you need a brush that works for you.

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 02-14-2013, 10:40 PM
#15
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Well said and put, both Teiste y Brian. Euro

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 02-14-2013, 10:54 PM
#16
  • Kavik79
  • Active Member
  • Albany, NY - USA
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"You can't lather with a manufacturers reputation" LOL that was a wonderful line, best thing I've read all day Biggrin

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 02-14-2013, 11:09 PM
#17
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
User Info
(02-14-2013, 10:54 PM)Kavik79 Wrote: "You can't lather with a manufacturers reputation" LOL that was a wonderful line, best thing I've read all day Biggrin

And I'm going to use it as sig line , since its very true.It doesn't matter if the brush is made in UK , China or Italy or if the company was founded in 1805 , 1919 or in 1940 : if it doesn't suits your preferences , there is nothing much to do, but to sell it or not use it.

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 02-15-2013, 12:24 AM
#18
  • Elbe
  • Member
  • Wolfsburg, Germany
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(02-14-2013, 09:15 PM)Teiste Wrote: I wont be getting any Thaters after discovering their wonderful customer service today on foroafeitado.com . I knew what happened to Phil and now whats going on with some batches of brushes , which are shedders , which some Spanish guys bought a couple months ago , and it seems that they will have to keep , since Thater and the store where they got them don't want to refund their money , either exchange them for new ones.Great customer service , Heinrich L Thater and differentscent.com ... NonoNono:shot:

That's interesting. Thought they learned their lesson in the meantime after all the trouble on B&B. Honestly, I can't understand their intention. The main reason for the resurrection of classic wet shaving is the Internet, with eCommerce, Forums, a worldwide community of nerds willing to spend a fortune on shaving gear and discussing shaving related topics. Without the Internet no such community of aficionados could exist and companies like Simpson, Thäter, shavemac, small manufacturers of DE razors, soap etc. would either be extinct by now or never founded.

Thäter should be aware, that this kind of treating customer complaints might extinguish their small company very fast. After all, it's not the first time we have to hear this. At least I'll refrain from ordering a Thäter brush in the future.

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 02-15-2013, 12:39 AM
#19
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Claus, it is admirable that you took the time to edit your post to allow others to see more clearly why your original post was very "emotional". I didn't see anything wrong with it, but we all know that talking negatively about a certain brand can and will certainly light some fuses with the gentlemen who genuinely love the brand you dislike. It is difficult to communicate emotion with text, I have both written and read others posts in the past where things were taken completely out of context. Sometimes even pm's were justified to resolve an issue that would not have happened had it been a face to face conversation. I believe being honest here is a good thing, but you really have to watch how you word things prior to posting them. We are a finicky and sensitive bunch sometimes when it comes to products or companies we really like and respect. Ymmv indeed!!!

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 02-15-2013, 12:54 AM
#20
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
User Info
(02-15-2013, 12:24 AM)Elbe Wrote:
(02-14-2013, 09:15 PM)Teiste Wrote: I wont be getting any Thaters after discovering their wonderful customer service today on foroafeitado.com . I knew what happened to Phil and now whats going on with some batches of brushes , which are shedders , which some Spanish guys bought a couple months ago , and it seems that they will have to keep , since Thater and the store where they got them don't want to refund their money , either exchange them for new ones.Great customer service , Heinrich L Thater and differentscent.com ... NonoNono:shot:

That's interesting. Thought they learned their lesson in the meantime after all the trouble on B&B. Honestly, I can't understand their intention. The main reason for the resurrection of classic wet shaving is the Internet, with eCommerce, Forums, a worldwide community of nerds willing to spend a fortune on shaving gear and discussing shaving related topics. Without the Internet no such community of aficionados could exist and companies like Simpson, Thäter, shavemac, small manufacturers of DE razors, soap etc. would either be extinct by now or never founded.

Thäter should be aware, that this kind of treating customer complaints might extinguish their small company very fast. After all, it's not the first time we have to hear this. At least I'll refrain from ordering a Thäter brush in the future.

Yes , you are very right , but it seems that Thater is not learning the lesson , and a store like differentscent.com is following its steps. This is not the way to go or to resolve issues, but hey , if I want a great German made shaving brush , I have shavemac and Muhle.

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