02-28-2012, 01:40 PM
#1
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How do they compare to badger and boar brushes? Do they need to be broken in? Are they soft on the face, are they better for bowl or face lathering? How do they hold heat, do they hold water as good as badgers or boars... etc. Bascially I want a rundown on horse brushes.

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 02-28-2012, 01:53 PM
#2
  • Songwind
  • Soap Slinger & Scuttle Pusher
  • Burnsville, MN
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I only have one horse brush, so I can't answer in general, but I'll tell you about mine.

I have a Vie-Long Sardinero 13800. It has 21mm x 51mm knot. It's got great backbone and soft (but not pillow-soft) tips. I've had it for a few weeks, and the tips are getting softer. The backbone seems to be about the same.

I've had good luck with it for face- and bowl-lathering. It eats soap of a puck like a thing possessed. On the face the soft tips and strong backbone give you a lot of control over how scrubby it is. If you just use the tips it's very soft. If you push in then it gets scrubbier. I don't find it scratchy, but I'm comparing to pure badger, not broken-in boar or silvertip.

The only badger I have is a pure badger brush with a much larger knot. The horse hair seems to absorb a lot of water for its size, compared to the pure badger. It holds heat nicely.

Basically, I love this brush.

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 02-28-2012, 02:07 PM
#3
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I'm actually getting ready to make my own Horse Hair brush from scratch; I'm sitting next to a pile of hair right now. Songwind is right - horse hair is supposed to be the best of both the boar and badger worlds.

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 02-28-2012, 02:52 PM
#4
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Best of both worlds you say, I may need to buy one then.

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 02-28-2012, 03:09 PM
#5
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I prefer my horsehair brush (Vie-Long Zurito 13061 from Phil) so much more than any of my boars. However, it has not surpassed any of my badgers. I haven't used it a ton yet so I expect that the tips will get softer. In fact, I think I'll use it tomorrow. FWIW, I primarily face lather and use hard soaps, soft soaps, and creams in that priority. This brush easily loads the triple milled favorites such as MWF and Cade while also whipping up a great lather from RazoRock and Cella. At the price-point it's definitely worth taking a risk (albeit a very small risk) and give the Vie-Long horsehair brushes a try. I've read that they have 80% of the best qualities of boar and 80% of the best qualities of badger. I'm not sure how you actually measure that, but I definitely agree with the thought that it conveys.

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 02-28-2012, 03:47 PM
#6
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pezhore Wrote:I'm actually getting ready to make my own Horse Hair brush from scratch; I'm sitting next to a pile of hair right now. Songwind is right - horse hair is supposed to be the best of both the boar and badger worlds.

I'm leaning forward to see how this goes.

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 02-28-2012, 04:01 PM
#7
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SharpSpine’s assessment of their performance is accurate. I’ve found that I prefer horse to badger, though. When I got the 13061 Zurito from Phil, I used it almost exclusively for two months. The I got a backup. Then I bought a few from Gifts and Care in Spain. They’re near Vie-Long and can accommodate requests for custom loft heights.

Wherever you shop for a Vie-Long horse hair, have a look at the mane/tail mix. Mane hair is softer than tail hair, so a 35/65 will be stiffer than a 50/50. Also consider natural vs. imiatation badger-banded. The banded is fine, though sometimes the dye will come off all at once in a big mess. Buy a banded horse, and it's worth rinsing, soaping, and practice-lathering a few times just to get any loose dye out. Naturals, to me, look better. The actual color of the horse. And to me they're ready to go right out of the box.

Finally, the fact that getting the hair doesn't hurt the horse is good to know. Just part of healthy grooming/brushing, I take it.

Aaaand now I want to go buy a new horse brush. Phil, where are those custom Vie-Longs you mentioned?

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 02-28-2012, 04:50 PM
#8
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I like to use my 1305 or 830 from time to time. But if I have to choose between boar and horse brush, I'll pick the stallion. My 13061 from Phil is a wonderful brush and I've bought a 13060 as a backup. These brushes don't have problem with any soap or cream I've tried them with. I find horse hair closer ro badger from point of view of water retention and stiffness than boar. Hairs are thinner than boar but resilient. They don't need too much density, that's why I like their flow through more than boars. The tips are never prickly and are average scrubby. I like them for face lathering in particular. I don't expect them to be like badger. I like them because they are well working alternative.

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 02-28-2012, 05:33 PM
#9
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I apologize that my English is very poor and limited.

Regarding the horse hair brushes, I particularly think it's an alternative. It would be a hair between hair and badger. Very resistant becomes softer the more you use. It respeturoso with animals and more economical than the badger.

It is a type of hair that Spain has always used in barber shops and is perfect for soft creams and soaps. With great ability to skim and very soft on the face can offer a very nice massage.

A variation of pure horse brushes are the mixed horse and badger offered Vie-long and can offer the qualities of the two types of hair.

I leave you some links, a Spanish store with which you can contact If you are also interested in a brush for this manufacturer. They deal with them directly, their owners Juanjo and Lorraine offer a good service, no problem contact via e-mail. You can deal with them both the type of handle, dyed hair if you want it or not and length.

Also I leave a video link in my Spanish comparing the qualities of two brushes Vie-long brushes a horse and a badger and a review of the brush that currently possess.

<!-- m -->http://www.giftsandcare.com/es/catalogo ... ballo.html<!-- m -->

<!-- m -->http://www.giftsandcare.com/es/catalogo ... tejon.html<!-- m -->

<!-- m -->http://www.foroafeitado.com/foro/revisi ... rron-5193/<!-- m -->

[center]
[/center]

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 02-28-2012, 06:34 PM
#10
  • freddy
  • Senior Member
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
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I have the very inexpensive Vie-Long 12601 horsehair and love it. I get the backbone of a boar and the softer tips of a well broken in boar or a badger.

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 02-28-2012, 06:46 PM
#11
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carlosfergar Wrote:A variation of pure horse brushes are the mixed horse and badger offered Vie-long and can offer the qualities of the two types of hair.
The badger-horse mix is really nice. One of my favorites for face-lathering.

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 02-28-2012, 06:54 PM
#12
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All these comments are interesting and certainly giving me cause to consider purchasing a horse hair brush. Anyone have any experience with a badger/horse blend brush?

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 02-28-2012, 08:32 PM
#13
  • Songwind
  • Soap Slinger & Scuttle Pusher
  • Burnsville, MN
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middlesmith Wrote:Wherever you shop for a Vie-Long horse hair, have a look at the mane/tail mix. Mane hair is softer than tail hair, so a 35/65 will be stiffer than a 50/50. Also consider natural vs. imiatation badger-banded. The banded is fine, though sometimes the dye will come off all at once in a big mess. Buy a banded horse, and it's worth rinsing, soaping, and practice-lathering a few times just to get any loose dye out.
Do you have an example of a natural hair brush with a 50/50 mix?

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 02-28-2012, 08:47 PM
#14
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The 13061 Zurito, like Phil has at BullGoose, is a great example. A primo brush with a great handle. Good sized loft, too, plenty of backbone but fairly soft at the tip.

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 02-28-2012, 08:52 PM
#15
  • CMur12
  • Semogueiro de Coração
  • Moses Lake, Washington State, USA
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I have the Vie-Long 13800 Sardinero, which I haven't used, and the 13061 Zurito, which I only tried a couple of times.

My experience with the Zurito was that it pulled all the lather into the knot. I used it to lather in a bowl and the brush held all the soap within the knot. I squeezed the lather out and started to work it in the bowl, and the brush sucked it all right back into the knot. I went through this process several times, and it always sucked the lather into the knot. It did make lather, but I had to sqeeze it out of the loft to get to it. After that I lost interest in the brush and haven't used it since then.

My questions: Do horsehair brushes go through a break-in period to loosen up the knot? Has anyone else had this problem and resolved it?

- Murray

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 02-29-2012, 06:24 AM
#16
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Songwind Wrote:
middlesmith Wrote:Wherever you shop for a Vie-Long horse hair, have a look at the mane/tail mix. Mane hair is softer than tail hair, so a 35/65 will be stiffer than a 50/50. Also consider natural vs. imiatation badger-banded. The banded is fine, though sometimes the dye will come off all at once in a big mess. Buy a banded horse, and it's worth rinsing, soaping, and practice-lathering a few times just to get any loose dye out.
Do you have an example of a natural hair brush with a 50/50 mix?

I asked Juan at Gifts & Care about this, and he said that Vie-Long get the hair from their supplier already blended. The banded horse is always 50/50 and the unbleached, natural is always 35/65, or 25/75 in some of the professionals. I wanted a 50/50 in brown to try, but just settled on a 35/65 for starters. The brown hair should be firmer, which I appreciate. I'll add my review once I've had a chance to play with my new brush. I had one of the professional N.1 brushes, but it was a floppy disappointment. I have high hopes for the next one, though.

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 02-29-2012, 06:37 AM
#17
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Dirty Texan Wrote:The brown hair should be firmer, which I appreciate. I'll add my review once I've had a chance to play with my new brush. I had one of the professional N.1 brushes, but it was a floppy disappointment. I have high hopes for the next one, though.
I missed that he was aking about the naturals, oops. That's good to know about the pre-mixes; I had been tempted to ask Juan for a custom mix. The professional is floppy for sure....

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 02-29-2012, 07:57 AM
#18
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I've been in horsehair try-out mode for the last few months.

So far, I've tried: the Sardinero, Gonzalo, Peleon, Zurito and Cachurro - that's all the horsehair-containing brushes that Bullgoose sells.

As a baseline: I like dense brushes (but not too dense) with medium-scrubby tips and nice backbone - excessive bloom is not attractive to me. My favourite brush is a vintage Plisson HMW 14, but I also like my Rooney Finest 3/1, and I really like my Shavemac D01 extreme flattop and 2-band Simpsons Chubby 3.

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My overall impressions of horsehair are favourable. The brushes tend to have soft-ish tips and nice backbone, given their lofts.

The Gonzalo is my least favourite of the bunch I tried. It is VERY scrubby. The boar hair looks to be clipped, and even with many, many cycles of wetting and drying, they never got much softer. On the plus side, the handle is the best of the bunch (along with the other Pro), and the knot doesn't splay out at all.

If you like scritch, this may be for you.

Of the Sardinero and Zurito, I prefer the Sardinero. Both these brushes have the same hair (a 50/50 mane/tail mix), but the knot sizes, and the lofts (most importantly) are different. The Zurito has a nice handle, but the loft makes the brush too floppy (for me). It is easy to lather with. I actually hold my brushes at the very end of the handle, and the curve of the Zurito handle made that hard, but it is otherwise a nice handle.

The Sardinero has a very nice loft, and it feels soft on the face, without being too soft, but it retains its backbone. I really liked this brush. The lip on the bottom of the handle makes it more comfortable for me to use. This one gets a strong recommendation from me.

The Cachurro (Pro horsehide) is a very, very nice brush. I really like the Pro handles - the best of the bunch, as far as I'm concerned. The 35/65 mix of mane and tail hair makes the knot stiffer, but this is countered by the very high loft. This winds up being a 'painter' - you use painting strokes with this brush. This gets a mild thunbs-up from me.

Finally, we come to the Peleon. This is cheap, has a large knot (23 mm), and low loft, with the 35/65 mix I like. It is an excellent knot. It starts out a little scritchy, but it does break in, and gets softer with use. It has excellent backbone, and the feel on the face is very, very nice. The only drawback is the handle, which I find uncomfortable. Incidentally, you can get this knot in the Zurito handle (just not on BG).

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As you might gather from the above - I think the Peleon is an amazing brush (as far as the knot goes). You do need to give it some time to break in, but it starts out being very nice, and it gets better with use. The Peleon and the Sardinero have stayed in my den, but the others have been passed on to other people. I'll probably drop down to just the Peleon........at least until the BG LE's get here. Smile

Again, give these brushes some time to break in. The tips get softer with time.

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 02-29-2012, 09:12 AM
#19
  • Songwind
  • Soap Slinger & Scuttle Pusher
  • Burnsville, MN
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middlesmith Wrote:The 13061 Zurito, like Phil has at BullGoose, is a great example. A primo brush with a great handle. Good sized loft, too, plenty of backbone but fairly soft at the tip.

Was this an answer to my question? Because it's got the dyed hair, in the picture.

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 02-29-2012, 09:15 AM
#20
  • Songwind
  • Soap Slinger & Scuttle Pusher
  • Burnsville, MN
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CMur12 Wrote:My experience with the Zurito was that it pulled all the lather into the knot. I used it to lather in a bowl and the brush held all the soap within the knot. I squeezed the lather out and started to work it in the bowl, and the brush sucked it all right back into the knot. I went through this process several times, and it always sucked the lather into the knot. It did make lather, but I had to sqeeze it out of the loft to get to it. After that I lost interest in the brush and haven't used it since then.
My Sardinero does something similar. It doesn't give me any problems putting the lather on my face, however. It definitely took some getting used to, though. I thought I had not used enough product w/ my TOBS cream last night, only to find I had plenty of lather lurking the brush ready to be brushed onto my face.

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