10-22-2013, 10:29 AM
#1
  • Rufus
  • Senior Member
  • Greater Toronto Area
User Info
How does the Rooney Heritage Emillion 1 compare to the Simpson's Emperor 1 or 2 in terms of face feel and overall performance with creams and face lathering? My taste in brushes is very eclectic ranging from the Kent BK4 to the Simpson's Jubilee in Manchurian. I'm not, however, overly fond of very dense brushes, such as my Chubby 1 and M&F Blonde Badger 1/2, but I do use them from time to time.

5 760
Reply
 10-22-2013, 11:14 AM
#2
  • Westaway
  • Junior Member
  • Lawrenceville, GA
User Info
I probably have no business replying to your question since I haven't used or owned the Rooney. What I do know is my Emperor 3 has a wonderful knot. It is in Super Grade as are all Emperors. The love I have for the Emperor has as much to do with the grace and ergonomics of the handle as much as the luxury of the knot. I have considered the Emillion for purchase but I don't know what I would gain from owning it. My three Simpsons have covered every need and desire that I could imagine. Chubby 1 Best, Duke 3 Best, Emperor 3 Super.

I know who makes my Simpson Brushes. I know where they are made. Their long history attests to their fine workmanship. If I have a problem with one of their brushes past the warranty date of the business I bought it from..... Simpson has an email or a phone number. They are concerned about my problems and their reputation. My problem with a shedding Chubby 1 resolved itself with their recommended treatment but Mr. Mark Watterson had assured me that they were interested in my satisfaction as a customer. On the other hand, beyond the sales source of that Emillion Brush..... who is there to talk to? Is there anyone out there associated with their manufacture that is related to the Rooney family? Is there an email or address or known location of their manufacture. I love my Simpsons. I know there are very good brushes of fine quality with the Rooney name stamped on them but my Simpsons are backed up by more than a brand name on a brush handle. One of the deciding factors that helped me decide on my first Simpson purchase was reading Fidos Shaving Brush Blog on the web. He seemed to know a lot more about brushes than I did at the time and when the dust settled, he had pronounced the Simpsons in his collection as his favorites. Good luck with your decision. I'm sure if you choose the Emillion it will be a joy to use.Rolleyes (P.S. I truly love Simpson Brushes but I plan on adding a Rooney Heritage Brush to my rotation one day. That's the plan anyhow.)

0 34
Reply
 10-22-2013, 11:37 AM
#3
User Info
The Emilion 1 is not a dense brush and if I still used badger brushes, it'd be my only one. The version I had was a fan-shaped knot, which I prefer to the bulb or even hybrid. Its a medium-sized knot (I think the dimensions are 22mm/50mm).

The handle is shorter than the Emperor, which I found to be a little unwieldy. But the Emperor is a great brush, too.

While the Rooney company is "shrouded in mystery" all of the retailers are stand-up people so I wouldn't be worried on that end.

72 1,407
Reply
 10-22-2013, 02:04 PM
#4
User Info
I haven't tried an emperor yet, but I find my emillion 2 to be pretty similar to my jublee in terms of density and flowthrough - the tips just aren't quite as soft as the jubilee, but the handle is infinitely better.

8 124
Reply
 10-22-2013, 04:34 PM
#5
  • Mouser
  • Senior Member
  • Forest City, Florida U.S.A.
User Info
(10-22-2013, 11:14 AM)Westaway Wrote: I probably have no business replying to your question since I haven't used or owned the Rooney. What I do know is my Emperor 3 has a wonderful knot. It is in Super Grade as are all Emperors. The love I have for the Emperor has as much to do with the grace and ergonomics of the handle as much as the luxury of the knot. I have considered the Emillion for purchase but I don't know what I would gain from owning it. My three Simpsons have covered every need and desire that I could imagine. Chubby 1 Best, Duke 3 Best, Emperor 3 Super.

I know who makes my Simpson Brushes. I know where they are made. Their long history attests to their fine workmanship. If I have a problem with one of their brushes past the warranty date of the business I bought it from..... Simpson has an email or a phone number. They are concerned about my problems and their reputation. My problem with a shedding Chubby 1 resolved itself with their recommended treatment but Mr. Mark Watterson had assured me that they were interested in my satisfaction as a customer. On the other hand, beyond the sales source of that Emillion Brush..... who is there to talk to? Is there anyone out there associated with their manufacture that is related to the Rooney family? Is there an email or address or known location of their manufacture. I love my Simpsons. I know there are very good brushes of fine quality with the Rooney name stamped on them but my Simpsons are backed up by more than a brand name on a brush handle. One of the deciding factors that helped me decide on my first Simpson purchase was reading Fidos Shaving Brush Blog on the web. He seemed to know a lot more about brushes than I did at the time and when the dust settled, he had pronounced the Simpsons in his collection as his favorites. Good luck with your decision. I'm sure if you choose the Emillion it will be a joy to use.Rolleyes (P.S. I truly love Simpson Brushes but I plan on adding a Rooney Heritage Brush to my rotation one day. That's the plan anyhow.)
It's not a good idea in the wet shaving world to go by anyone else' opinion of what is the best anything because that's just what it is, an opinion. Almost everything in shaving is subjective, to a point. I have both Simpsons and Rooneys and my opinion of which one is the best is the one that matters.....to me. I like Rooney better just because they are all fans, other than that they're equal. Different, but equal. And so far I've never have had the need to contact a manufacturer of any shaving product I use, so that get's thrown out of the window too. Thing is, the big successful brands are big and successful for a reason, they provide a very very good product...pick your favorite. BTW, Rooney has been around since at least 1796. For what it's worth.

6 2,006
Reply
 10-22-2013, 05:20 PM
#6
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
User Info
I'ved owned the Emillion in a size 2 and 3 and the Emperor in size 2 and 3.

Both are nice brushes and given the longer handle both are well suited to bowl lathering.

I found the Emperor had a denser, but smaller knot compared to the Emillion. I also found the Emperor handle to be slimmer than the Emillion. Both were ergonomic to hold, but the Emperor felt more agile and the Emillion more substantial.

Both are great choices and I can't imagine you would be displeased with either.

91 17,851
Reply
 10-22-2013, 06:10 PM
#7
  • Westaway
  • Junior Member
  • Lawrenceville, GA
User Info
(10-22-2013, 04:34 PM)Mouser Wrote:
(10-22-2013, 11:14 AM)Westaway Wrote: I probably have no business replying to your question since I haven't used or owned the Rooney. What I do know is my Emperor 3 has a wonderful knot. It is in Super Grade as are all Emperors. The love I have for the Emperor has as much to do with the grace and ergonomics of the handle as much as the luxury of the knot. I have considered the Emillion for purchase but I don't know what I would gain from owning it. My three Simpsons have covered every need and desire that I could imagine. Chubby 1 Best, Duke 3 Best, Emperor 3 Super.

I know who makes my Simpson Brushes. I know where they are made. Their long history attests to their fine workmanship. If I have a problem with one of their brushes past the warranty date of the business I bought it from..... Simpson has an email or a phone number. They are concerned about my problems and their reputation. My problem with a shedding Chubby 1 resolved itself with their recommended treatment but Mr. Mark Watterson had assured me that they were interested in my satisfaction as a customer. On the other hand, beyond the sales source of that Emillion Brush..... who is there to talk to? Is there anyone out there associated with their manufacture that is related to the Rooney family? Is there an email or address or known location of their manufacture. I love my Simpsons. I know there are very good brushes of fine quality with the Rooney name stamped on them but my Simpsons are backed up by more than a brand name on a brush handle. One of the deciding factors that helped me decide on my first Simpson purchase was reading Fidos Shaving Brush Blog on the web. He seemed to know a lot more about brushes than I did at the time and when the dust settled, he had pronounced the Simpsons in his collection as his favorites. Good luck with your decision. I'm sure if you choose the Emillion it will be a joy to use.Rolleyes (P.S. I truly love Simpson Brushes but I plan on adding a Rooney Heritage Brush to my rotation one day. That's the plan anyhow.)
It's not a good idea in the wet shaving world to go by anyone else' opinion of what is the best anything because that's just what it is, an opinion. Almost everything in shaving is subjective, to a point. I have both Simpsons and Rooneys and my opinion of which one is the best is the one that matters.....to me. I like Rooney better just because they are all fans, other than that they're equal. Different, but equal. And so far I've never have had the need to contact a manufacturer of any shaving product I use, so that get's thrown out of the window too. Thing is, the big successful brands are big and successful for a reason, they provide a very very good product...pick your favorite. BTW, Rooney has been around since at least 1796. For what it's worth.

I think that most everyone understood that I think Rooney branded brushes are of the finest quality. I hope to add a Heritage (As I Said) to my rotation as soon as the budget allows. The point I was trying to make is that even though there are Brushes of the finest quality with the name "Rooney" imprinted on the handles...... There Just Aint Nobody from the Rooney family involved in their manufacture. There is a wonderful "Heritage" of Rooney brushes since 1796..... the brush name has continued to exist on handles but the Rooney family and company have not. This doesn't mean I won't enjoy picking out my Rooney in the future. I just know that I'm not buying from a company founded in the 18th Century.

Also, I think it is reassuring for a customer to have recourse with a manufacturer because vendors are not always going to be there for us. This due to time limitations on warranties and also poor business practices which pretty much will allow a seller to disappear from view. I did have a Simpson Brush that had a problem and the Company was willing to stand behind their product and see the problem through. I didn't have any further concerns after my correspondence with Mark Watterson, their Managing Director. I think if anyone were worried about who would stand behind the quality of the brush they spent their hard earned dollars on.... this might be a factor they needed to know about. Fact, not opinion.

As to relying on the opinions of others in the wet-shaving world. Fidos Shaving Brush Blog is quite good reading and gives one man's opinion on brushes that he has actually used. If anyone were to buy a brush solely on reading this one man's blog, that's their business. For me, information like this is a single step on a journey of researching more fact and opinion from a wide variety of sources. Hopefully most people will find out as much information as they can before they make an investment. I've enjoyed researching, buying and using every single brush and razor that I own. The closest thing to a regret I have is my Kent BK8. Fido loved it. Many, many others love it. I think it is soft, luxurious and a dynamite display item on my shaving shelf.... but it doesn't hold a candle to my Simpsons, or even my little Savile Row Silvertip.

Finally, I think some of the most enjoyable and informative sites on the internet are the shaving forums, where I can share and learn from the experiences of others. I have really appreciated the informative and entertaining threads that are posted daily.

0 34
Reply
 10-23-2013, 03:31 AM
#8
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
User Info
Anyone who spends a reasonable amount of time on the internet browsing shaving related sites should know who is the man behind the revival of Rooney. He may be in the process of distancing himself from the name to pursue another Marvellous and Fantastic brush making endeavour, but I'm sure he keeps a finger in the pie ensuring the quality of brushes under both the Rooney name as well the other (currently) more closely linked to him…

At this point, a brush purchased from an authorised dealer or direct from the man himself is IMO a guarantee of satisfaction and customer support, however a more transperant manufacturer like Simpson along with their Managing Director, Mark Watterson's infinitely more accessible approach provides an easily obtainable link from buyer to manufacturer that catapults consumer confidence out of the ball park.

At the end of the day, two very different approaches, but two outstanding brush manufacturers...

91 17,851
Reply
 10-23-2013, 04:01 AM
#9
User Info
Marvelous & Fantastic!

That Might Fly.

A Mighty Fine idea would be to use mine today.

If I had the $$$, I'd buy one for Most of my Friends.

More Fun later...

Thank you Ben for the levity with my AM coffee.



(10-23-2013, 03:31 AM)ben74 Wrote: Anyone who spends a reasonable amount of time on the internet browsing shaving related sites should know who is the man behind the revival of Rooney. He may be in the process of distancing himself from the name to pursue another Marvellous and Fantastic brush making endeavour, but I'm sure he keeps a finger in the pie ensuring the quality of brushes under both the Rooney name as well the other (currently) more closely linked to him…

At this point, a brush purchased from an authorised dealer or direct from the man himself is IMO a guarantee of satisfaction and customer support, however a more transperant manufacturer like Simpson along with their Managing Director, Mark Watterson's infinitely more accessible approach provides an easily obtainable link from buyer to manufacturer that catapults consumer confidence out of the ball park.

At the end of the day, two very different approaches, but two outstanding brush manufacturers...

2 202
Reply
 10-23-2013, 05:49 AM
#10
  • Mouser
  • Senior Member
  • Forest City, Florida U.S.A.
User Info
I get the whole heritage thing. As a matter of fact it's just my sort of thing. There are people walking around talking to and amongst us who have such invaluable stories. Who can share little facts that can and do bring us a new perception of a product, a process. It can and does add tremendously to the provenance and value. It's why I like old things and old people ( my wife tells me she does everyday.) It's why I buy handmade items whenever it's an option. And if I've had any interaction with the creator/maker (Gary, Lee) then it's even more precious to me and I'm keeping it forever.

6 2,006
Reply
 10-23-2013, 05:54 AM
#11
  • Westaway
  • Junior Member
  • Lawrenceville, GA
User Info
(10-23-2013, 03:31 AM)ben74 Wrote: Anyone who spends a reasonable amount of time on the internet browsing shaving related sites should know who is the man behind the revival of Rooney. He may be in the process of distancing himself from the name to pursue another Marvellous and Fantastic brush making endeavour, but I'm sure he keeps a finger in the pie ensuring the quality of brushes under both the Rooney name as well the other (currently) more closely linked to him…

At this point, a brush purchased from an authorised dealer or direct from the man himself is IMO a guarantee of satisfaction and customer support, however a more transperant manufacturer like Simpson along with their Managing Director, Mark Watterson's infinitely more accessible approach provides an easily obtainable link from buyer to manufacturer that catapults consumer confidence out of the ball park.

At the end of the day, two very different approaches, but two outstanding brush manufacturers...

Well put. I couldn't agree more about the present quality that is maintained not only in Rooney, but Morris & Forndran. I know that Lee must be a very busy man because I have seen posts to that effect and where members have been anxiously trying to reach him or receive a response. Thanks for the comparison of customer confidence in these brushes. The other point made by a member of this forum is that we have the final word. It is our own personal opinion of what we own and use. I would like to know more about Lee and his brush output. I wonder if he is turning these brushes all by himself or are there are others employed to help? My personal budget pretty much dictates how much time and interest and research I do. I don't want to be a collector but I surely enjoy the luxury of well made badger and boar. I guess there will be a fine line I cross one day since I already own more brushes than I have hands or lather bowls. Thanks again for your input.Thumbup

0 34
Reply
 10-23-2013, 06:00 AM
#12
  • u2u
  • Senior Member
  • GTA
User Info
This morning, as I prepared my lather with a Tulip 3, I thought a more graceful handle might be nice for bowl lathering. Both brushes under discussion are strong contenders and all my recent Rooney and Simpson purchases have met my high expectations.

I am hoping Rufus will drop by his local shave emporium and pickup the Rooney he craves. But please, don't let it be the last one. Hope he posts once he makes a decision and has put his new brush to use.

Gentlemen, as a mostly lurker, thank you for your informative exchange.

0 535
Reply
 10-23-2013, 07:14 AM
#13
  • Rufus
  • Senior Member
  • Greater Toronto Area
User Info
Part of my quandary is that I already own 6 Simpson's brushes (Duke 2 in pure, Colonel in best, Wee Scot in best, Tulip 2 in super, Chubby 1 in best, Jubilee in Manchurian), but only one Rooney (Finest 2/1); I also own 8 other badgers and one boar. Obviously I have a proclivity for Simpson's, but I thought it might be nice to add a second Rooney if it would be a brush that I'd use frequently. As I said in my initial post, I prefer brushes that are not overly dense or with a lot of backbone, but I don't want a mop.

5 760
Reply
 10-23-2013, 08:05 AM
#14
User Info
(10-23-2013, 07:14 AM)Rufus Wrote: As I said in my initial post, I prefer brushes that are not overly dense or with a lot of backbone, but I don't want a mop.

The Emilion is definitely this. Plus its a unique Rooney handle. In fact, for me, that is the best handle I've ever tried.

72 1,407
Reply
 10-23-2013, 06:20 PM
#15
User Info
Great topic! I have always liked the look of the Emilion, but the Emperor 1 is the brush I own. It is a 2 Band Super Badger with dimensions of 22 x 48. I use it exclusively for face lathering, and it is a top performer for me. It is denser than my M7 2 band and probably about the same as my Tulip 3--though with some scritch/definition due to the lower loft. None of my other brushes have this special feel, and it always seems to produce excellent lather and a close shave.

I personally don't see the value in the larger Emperors since the knot dimensions are virtually identical. The E1 handle is long enough for me, so I would not consider the 2 or 3.

Regarding Rooney, I think the lack of transparency is unfortunate. I have read that Mr. Sabini actually no longer makes the Rooney brushes--he has passed this along to another maker or former apprentice. Like nearly everything with this brand, it may be pure conjecture. If he indeed makes all the M&F plus T&H and D R Harris along with Rooney, he must be an extremely busy fellow.

My opinion of Rooney and M&F would improve a great deal if more information was given on the handle production. Do these companies outsource the CNC or do it in-house? Are the one-off brushes done on a manual lathe? If so, they should publicize it.

If Rooney goes so far as to call a line of brushes "Heritage," they would do buyers a service by reprinting/scanning an old catalogue. I have searched online rather exhaustively for old Rooney catalogues and have come up empty handed. Please share if you have one! I would love to know when the names "Emilion," "Victorian," "Alibaba," et al. came into being.

1 255
Reply
 11-04-2013, 02:46 PM
#16
  • Rufus
  • Senior Member
  • Greater Toronto Area
User Info
After procrastinating for the last two weeks I placed my order for an Emillion this evening. Why did I select the Rooney over the Simpson? In terms of price, quality and aesthetic appeal, I think they are both equal. Thus, what it boiled down to was that I own 6 Simpsons, but only one Rooney. I'll let you know what I think of the Rooney once I've used it for a week or so.

5 760
Reply
 11-05-2013, 05:19 PM
#17
  • grantmm
  • Friend of the Badgers
  • Draper, Utah
User Info
I have to say, the Emillion is fantastic at creating lather. I just got this one in the mail from Obie. I did a quick load of TOBS cream using about 2/3rds of the amount I typically load. One pass on my face to see how it feels (amazing but slightly awkward to hold). This is the lather that was left after that one pass.

[Image: 1z58cbk.jpg]

9 734
Reply
 11-05-2013, 09:16 PM
#18
  • LORDBISHOP
  • Lover of the Wet Shaving way of Life
  • Westchester, NY
User Info
Looks beautifulAngel Great looking lather too...Are you sure you used TOBS? or did you use that nice looking tub of Truefitt in the pic? Not to nit pick, just curiousHuh

4 792
Reply
 11-06-2013, 05:33 AM
#19
  • grantmm
  • Friend of the Badgers
  • Draper, Utah
User Info
Ohh hai. T&H it is. Blush

9 734
Reply
 11-06-2013, 01:10 PM
#20
  • Rufus
  • Senior Member
  • Greater Toronto Area
User Info
(11-04-2013, 02:46 PM)Rufus Wrote: After procrastinating for the last two weeks I placed my order for an Emillion this evening. Why did I select the Rooney over the Simpson? In terms of price, quality and aesthetic appeal, I think they are both equal. Thus, what it boiled down to was that I own 6 Simpsons, but only one Rooney. I'll let you know what I think of the Rooney once I've used it for a week or so.

The Emillion 1 arrived today and is currently soaking in a bowl of warm water in preparation for its first drive tomorrow. It's a great looking brush, the handle feels very good and the size is just what I like; more on this when I've used it for a week or so.

5 760
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)