04-25-2012, 07:32 AM
I like boar brushes. Specifically, I like Semogue boar brushes. 
Since I tried my first Semogue 2000, I've liked them, and while most of the brushes in my den are badger, I've kept a few boar brushes around.
I've liked every Semogue boar brush I've tried - the 2000 was great, as was the 1305, 620, 830, B&B blue LE, SOC, etc. I had the 2009 LE and that was nice too.
However, in an effort to keep the den under control I cut them down until I kept the winner.......the SOC boar.
To my mind, the SOC boar was the best brush for my tastes. I mostly bowl lather, but sometimes I'll face lather. Regardless of how I was lathering, or if I was using a soap or cream, the SOC boar could handle it and each use was a real pleasure.
When the 2011 LE brushes came out, I bought them both (the #1 and the #2). Like the 2009 LE, they were better at the tips from the get go than most of the 'production' Semogue boars. What I mean is that they didn't need as much of a break-in period.
![[Image: IMG_3939.jpg]](http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm128/yohannrjm/IMG_3939.jpg)
However, as I used them, I realized that they didn't work any better than my SOC boar (which I sold, unfortunately). In fact, they had more issues.
Loading was an issue, as the super-dense knot liked to shed a bit - that stopped after a while, but it was disconcerting. The super dense knot also created flowthrough problems. I also didn't care for the dyeing job on the bristles.
The #1 was too short in loft for me, so I got rid of it. The #2 was better and I still have it, but I still feel like it isn't quite right. Don't get me wrong, I can lather up a storm with it (using a modified Zach technique), and it feels great on the face - but so does a broken-in SOC, and it doesn't have the same flowthrough issues of the LE.
Bsically, I wonder if the LE's were overdone.
I think they're too dense, too stylized and too expensive. They aren't any better (in my mind) than the SOC or a 2000 (if you're into bowl lathering), and they're so much more expensive that I feel that they were more an exercise in good marketing than in providing a real benefit over the regular Semogue line.
The only thing I really like about them is the handle, and even that's not much better than the really comfortable handle used on the SOC.
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Am I crazy? Or do other people also feel that the LE may not have been worth the $$ (when compared to other Semogue boars).
Since I tried my first Semogue 2000, I've liked them, and while most of the brushes in my den are badger, I've kept a few boar brushes around.
I've liked every Semogue boar brush I've tried - the 2000 was great, as was the 1305, 620, 830, B&B blue LE, SOC, etc. I had the 2009 LE and that was nice too.
However, in an effort to keep the den under control I cut them down until I kept the winner.......the SOC boar.
To my mind, the SOC boar was the best brush for my tastes. I mostly bowl lather, but sometimes I'll face lather. Regardless of how I was lathering, or if I was using a soap or cream, the SOC boar could handle it and each use was a real pleasure.
When the 2011 LE brushes came out, I bought them both (the #1 and the #2). Like the 2009 LE, they were better at the tips from the get go than most of the 'production' Semogue boars. What I mean is that they didn't need as much of a break-in period.
However, as I used them, I realized that they didn't work any better than my SOC boar (which I sold, unfortunately). In fact, they had more issues.
Loading was an issue, as the super-dense knot liked to shed a bit - that stopped after a while, but it was disconcerting. The super dense knot also created flowthrough problems. I also didn't care for the dyeing job on the bristles.
The #1 was too short in loft for me, so I got rid of it. The #2 was better and I still have it, but I still feel like it isn't quite right. Don't get me wrong, I can lather up a storm with it (using a modified Zach technique), and it feels great on the face - but so does a broken-in SOC, and it doesn't have the same flowthrough issues of the LE.
Bsically, I wonder if the LE's were overdone.
I think they're too dense, too stylized and too expensive. They aren't any better (in my mind) than the SOC or a 2000 (if you're into bowl lathering), and they're so much more expensive that I feel that they were more an exercise in good marketing than in providing a real benefit over the regular Semogue line.
The only thing I really like about them is the handle, and even that's not much better than the really comfortable handle used on the SOC.
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Am I crazy? Or do other people also feel that the LE may not have been worth the $$ (when compared to other Semogue boars).
04-25-2012, 07:44 AM
I would imagine that a lot of the expense is due to the handle material. I have an LE2 in my rotation and have not noticed any flow through issues. That said, it does not necessarily work any better than my broken in Semogue 2000...it just feels a bit more luxurious in the hand due to the heavier handle.
04-25-2012, 07:53 AM
(04-25-2012, 07:44 AM)bullgoose Wrote: I would imagine that a lot of the expense is due to the handle material. I have an LE2 in my rotation and have not noticed any flow through issues. That said, it does not necessarily work any better than my broken in Semogue 2000...it just feels a bit more luxurious in the hand due to the heavier handle.
Phil -
You're probably right. I guess the point I was trying to get at is that, unlike badger hairs (where the different grades of hair offered by Simpson, for example, can have widely differeing characteristics), the boar bristles used by Semogue are pretty much the same. The LE's just use more pre-broken-in hairs than the regular brushes, but the knots will feel the same after a while.
I just think that $25 for a 2000 is a good deal......$80+ for an LE is less of a great deal, unless you really like the handle.
This is mostly me mentally kicking myself for getting rid of my SOC boar.
04-25-2012, 07:56 AM
(04-25-2012, 07:53 AM)yohannrjm Wrote:(04-25-2012, 07:44 AM)bullgoose Wrote: I would imagine that a lot of the expense is due to the handle material. I have an LE2 in my rotation and have not noticed any flow through issues. That said, it does not necessarily work any better than my broken in Semogue 2000...it just feels a bit more luxurious in the hand due to the heavier handle.
Phil -
You're probably right. I guess the point I was trying to get at is that, unlike badger hairs (where the different grades of hair offered by Simpson, for example, can have widely differeing characteristics), the boar bristles used by Semogue are pretty much the same. The LE's just use more pre-broken-in hairs than the regular brushes, but the knots will feel the same after a while.
I just think that $25 for a 2000 is a good deal......$80+ for an LE is less of a great deal, unless you really like the handle.
This is mostly me mentally kicking myself for getting rid of my SOC boar.
Yes, I agree about the bristles in the various Semogue brushes. Once broken in, they are very similar.
04-25-2012, 07:57 AM
Yohann, I almost agree with you. I had one of the LE 2011 #1 bristle and thought the loft was just to short, especially since I was strictly scuttle lathering at the time, so I sold it. I am now doing some face lathering and wish I still had it.
I also have one of the LE 2011 #2 bristle and just love it with cream or soap, scuttle or face lathering. I have no issues with making lather, holding lather, or dispensing lather with this brush.
I won't go as for as to say the SOC is better, but it is different and I hold them both on equal ground.
I had a 2000 and have just traded it as the loft was just a little to long for me, but that's one of those YMMV things.
The LE 2011 was a little pricy, but it was a LE.
I also have one of the LE 2011 #2 bristle and just love it with cream or soap, scuttle or face lathering. I have no issues with making lather, holding lather, or dispensing lather with this brush.
I won't go as for as to say the SOC is better, but it is different and I hold them both on equal ground.
I had a 2000 and have just traded it as the loft was just a little to long for me, but that's one of those YMMV things.
The LE 2011 was a little pricy, but it was a LE.
04-25-2012, 08:20 AM
I can't comment too much here as I have neither brush currently. I do have a SOC boar and badger on the way though. I only wanted to comment on what Yohann said about the style of the dyed hair. I also think it was overdone in that regard. I personally want a boar brush to look like a boar brush, not a badger.
04-25-2012, 08:41 AM
Brian - yep, that's what I think too. Boar should look like boar, the dye joy isn't fooling anyone. However, that's a matter of personal taste, really.
Johnny -
Yep, the 2000 does have a really high loft. For bowl lathering, it works well.
I'm not saying that the Semogue LE's (especially the #2) are bad brushes - they're fine. I just thought they were a little overdone in some aspects.
Johnny -
Yep, the 2000 does have a really high loft. For bowl lathering, it works well.
I'm not saying that the Semogue LE's (especially the #2) are bad brushes - they're fine. I just thought they were a little overdone in some aspects.
04-25-2012, 08:55 AM
(04-25-2012, 08:20 AM)SharpSpine Wrote: I can't comment too much here as I have neither brush currently. I do have a SOC boar and badger on the way though. I only wanted to comment on what Yohann said about the style of the dyed hair. I also think it was overdone in that regard. I personally want a boar brush to look like a boar brush, not a badger.
Normally I would agree with Brian on the dying. I picked up the SOC and one of the attactive aspects of it for me was that it wasn't dyed (though I imagine could have been bleached). Though many of the other Semogue brushes may be great performers and awesome brushes the dying to look like a badger turns me off. I want my badgers to look like badger and my boar to look like boar. With recently picking up my first boar I really like it - and I'm proud that it's a boar. The dying almost makes me think like I'd be trying to hide the fact I have a boar.
The only exception for me is the LE 2011. For some reason that dye job is really attractive to me - I imagine it was done so it appears to be a 2 band badger but for some reason I really like how the dyed hair looks with the handle.
I looked hard at the 2011 LE - I found somewhere I could get it. Like I said it's a very attractive brush to me but $75 is the same price as my favorite badger brush, though as Johnny said, it is an LE so I should expect the bigger price. If it does come out into normal production at a smaller price (much as I've understand happend to SOC) I would be hard pressed not to buy it. Though I'm not sure I want to prove Johnny right by suddenly buying a ton of boars
PS - luckily I just saw in another thread that VS is on holiday until May 1 so I'm safe from snagging another boar... though I have been looking for a reason to buy from Bullgoose lately...
hmmmmmmm....
04-25-2012, 09:04 AM
(04-25-2012, 08:55 AM)Brent Wrote: Normally I would agree with Brian on the dying. I picked up the SOC and one of the attactive aspects of it for me was that it wasn't dyed (though I imagine could have been bleached). Though many of the other Semogue brushes may be great performers and awesome brushes the dying to look like a badger turns me off. I want my badgers to look like badger and my boar to look like boar. With recently picking up my first boar I really like it - and I'm proud that it's a boar. The dying almost makes me think like I'd be trying to hide the fact I have a boar.
The only exception for me is the LE 2011. For some reason that dye job is really attractive to me - I imagine it was done so it appears to be a 2 band badger but for some reason I really like how the dyed hair looks with the handle.
I looked hard at the 2011 LE - I found somewhere I could get it. Like I said it's a very attractive brush to me but $75 is the same price as my favorite badger brush, though as Johnny said, it is an LE so I should expect the bigger price. If it does come out into normal production at a smaller price (much as I've understand happend to SOC) I would be hard pressed not to buy it. Though I'm not sure I want to prove Johnny right by suddenly buying a ton of boars
PS - luckily I just saw in another thread that VS is on holiday until May 1 so I'm safe from snagging another boar... though I have been looking for a reason to buy from Bullgoose lately...
hmmmmmmm....
I have a SOC 2-band badger and a Muhle Black Fibre on their way from Phil as I type!
04-25-2012, 10:36 AM
The Semogue LE 1 finest bristle is my fav of all the 4 brushes (I have the protos).
For my taste,the knot is a little bit larger than I usually like.However,this brush is a soap destroyer and,yes,is very dense,but also don't "bloom" like other badger hair brushes,so it doesn't feel like a 24mm knot brush.
Is it better than a regular Semogue SOC brush?For some people could be,due to its 50mm loft and for others wont.The handle is also comfortable and easy to handle,maybe not the most ergonomic one,but ergonomic enough.
For my taste,the knot is a little bit larger than I usually like.However,this brush is a soap destroyer and,yes,is very dense,but also don't "bloom" like other badger hair brushes,so it doesn't feel like a 24mm knot brush.
Is it better than a regular Semogue SOC brush?For some people could be,due to its 50mm loft and for others wont.The handle is also comfortable and easy to handle,maybe not the most ergonomic one,but ergonomic enough.
04-25-2012, 11:33 AM
I don't think they are over done. It's nice to have a LE once a year. I guess this is just the Semogue thing.
I had the Size 1 badger, it was by far the worst brush I have ever bought and has put me off Semogue badgers. It was like lathering with 80 grit sandpaper.
I also have size 1 & 2 boar's. These are brilliant brushes which I enjoy using a lot. I haven't tried the older LE with the same bristle, if I had I may be thinking the same but currently I love these 2 brushes.
I had the Size 1 badger, it was by far the worst brush I have ever bought and has put me off Semogue badgers. It was like lathering with 80 grit sandpaper.
I also have size 1 & 2 boar's. These are brilliant brushes which I enjoy using a lot. I haven't tried the older LE with the same bristle, if I had I may be thinking the same but currently I love these 2 brushes.
04-25-2012, 11:44 AM
Teiste -
There's always a YMMV factor on shavbing stuff, as we all know. The#1 Boar didn't work for me, but the #2 was fine.
I guess I keep expecting LE items to differ significantly from production items......to justify the increased cost. For example, the GYLE Simpsons released recently is significantly different from their usual offerings - on several fronts. It's too expensive, yes, but at least it is different.
There are other production Semogue brushes that have similar knot characteristics to the LE boars, and they're cheaper. I guess as an LE, I was expecting more.
I think these are fine brushes, but I think Semogue has production items that are better brushes. Again, this is just my opinion, and YMMV, as usual.
Maybe I just don't get LE items, and they are just not for me.
There's always a YMMV factor on shavbing stuff, as we all know. The#1 Boar didn't work for me, but the #2 was fine.
I guess I keep expecting LE items to differ significantly from production items......to justify the increased cost. For example, the GYLE Simpsons released recently is significantly different from their usual offerings - on several fronts. It's too expensive, yes, but at least it is different.
There are other production Semogue brushes that have similar knot characteristics to the LE boars, and they're cheaper. I guess as an LE, I was expecting more.
I think these are fine brushes, but I think Semogue has production items that are better brushes. Again, this is just my opinion, and YMMV, as usual.
Maybe I just don't get LE items, and they are just not for me.
04-25-2012, 11:51 AM
After two bad experiences with Semogue brushes a couple of years ago and their "customer service" (or lack of) I'm very sour on the brand. I'm sure the brushes improved and they seem to have their fans, but twice burnt and I learned my lesson.
I kinda feel the same way about Simpsons, though I have a Duke 2 Best (feels and looks more like Super) that I like very much, but don't ask me how hard it was to find it and how many Simpsons I had to try which had one issue or another.
I kinda feel the same way about Simpsons, though I have a Duke 2 Best (feels and looks more like Super) that I like very much, but don't ask me how hard it was to find it and how many Simpsons I had to try which had one issue or another.
04-25-2012, 12:01 PM
(04-25-2012, 11:51 AM)SirWhiskers Wrote: After two bad experiences with Semogue brushes a couple of years ago and their "customer service" (or lack of) I'm very sour on the brand. I'm sure the brushes improved and they seem to have their fans, but twice burnt and I learned my lesson.
I kinda feel the same way about Simpsons, though I have a Duke 2 Best (feels and looks more like Super) that I like very much, but don't ask me how hard it was to find it and how many Simpsons I had to try which had one issue or another.
Maybe it has something to do with that beard in your avatar.
04-25-2012, 01:52 PM
(04-25-2012, 01:48 PM)Howler Wrote: Personally if I had $80.00 to buy a brush. I would do one of two things. Buy more then one boar brush or invest in a good quality badger.
I enjoy using boar brushes, over my badgers. I would not invest $80 for a boar.
That's what I did Brad. Sold a Simpsons and bought 4 Semogue brushes with the money. But I still have the $75 boar.
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