12-09-2013, 10:45 PM
#1
  • Jax
  • Ex-Lurker
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What are the dimensions of the knot and loft according to Simpsons?
Does this brush feel like a Duke 3 or is it just me?

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 12-09-2013, 10:57 PM
#2
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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No it's just you! Tongue

It feels bigger than a Duke 3 to me.
Both in terms of knot size and handle.
In fact I found the girth of the P8 to be a little overwhelming initially.

Approximate P8 dimensions:
Knot Diameter: 24mm
Loft Height: 48mm
Handle Height: 43mm
Hair: Simpson Best Badger (Hand Tied)

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 12-09-2013, 11:02 PM
#3
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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For comparison the Duke 3 in Best...

Weight: 65g
Handle diameter: 37mm
Overall height: 98mm
Knot: 25mm x 51mm

Well the specs suggest the Duke 3 in fact has the bigger knot.
Regardless they certainly are close in terms of knot size, but the P8 still feels much bigger to me.
It must be the handle...

Comparison pics of the Duke 3, P8 and Rover...

[Image: n9Kcnn1.png]

[Image: vcYGWv5.png]

[Image: sa7HKyN.png]

The Duke 3 and Rover are both Manchurian.

These feature more compact knots which further explains why the P8 feels so much bigger not just in my hand, but also on the face.

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 12-09-2013, 11:07 PM
#4
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I measured mine. The loft is 51mm and the knot is around 24-25 by eye. It does have a small glue bump though so the effective loft is a tad shorter.

I would say it's very much like a Duke 3

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 12-09-2013, 11:15 PM
#5
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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(12-09-2013, 11:07 PM)Dipesh Wrote: I measured mine. The loft is 51mm and the knot is around 24-25 by eye. It does have a small glue bump though so the effective loft is a tad shorter.

I would say it's very much like a Duke 3

Very much like a Rover too, but they all still feel different to me... Biggrin

Rover specs:

Total Height: 92mm
Loft: 47mm
Knot Diameter: 22mm
Hair: Simpson Best Badger

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 12-09-2013, 11:33 PM
#6
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Could it be the hair also Ben?

It does have much more bloom than manchurian and 2 band super.

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 12-10-2013, 01:04 AM
#7
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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Yes I did mention that the hair grade makes a difference.

Although I don't currently have any other Simpson brushes in Best, I have owned at least the following in Best: CH1, CH2, CH3, Duke 2, Eagle 3, PL10 and PL12. I only recall the CH2 and CH3 feeling bigger (knot wise) compared to the P8.

The most significant factor differentiating face feel or size of brushes of similar widths and lofts of the same hair grade, is density. The knot weights or density is specific to each handle design and size. The actual weight is usually a company secret, but the differences in density are obvious. For example the Rover is less dense than the Duke and the Duke is less dense than the Chubby. So rather than simply a difference in handle, there is also a difference in feel regardless of similar heights and lofts. The Jubilee was a notable example, with early Simpson Manchurian first being compared to Rooney Finest. The Jubilee changed this perception as unlike its predecessors, it was rather soft and relatively light in terms of sensation on the face. The Jubilee, according to Mark is less densely packed. While visually it's not extremely noticeable when comparing to the Duke 3, the knot feels softer, blooms more and provides a bigger feel on the face.

Interestingly in a less rigid hair like Best, density can have the opposite effect with the volume of hair not only providing a bigger feel, but also forcing a wider bloom on account of the less rigid hair.

My images above won't illustrate my point as there are two very different hair grades pictured. I would invite anyone with a post Vulfix Duke 3 in Best and a P8 to take a comparative pic from above to see if there is a marked visual difference in terms of density...

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 12-10-2013, 04:56 AM
#8
  • Jax
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Which brush would you say is denser the duke 3 or the P8? Which other Simpsons brush does the P8 resemble?

BTW I got number 109 two days ago!

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 12-10-2013, 09:37 AM
#9
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(12-10-2013, 04:56 AM)Jax Wrote: Which brush would you say is denser the duke 3 or the P8? Which other Simpsons brush does the P8 resemble?

BTW I got number 109 two days ago!

Interesting question. Anyone?

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 12-10-2013, 10:29 AM
#10
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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It's just not me that finds the P8 bigger than expected, see here. (Not that I'm complaining - I wouldn't change a thing).

At 25.5 x 51mm, vferdman's measurements put the P8 as large as the Duke 3, if not larger...

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 12-10-2013, 11:53 AM
#11
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I'm not the best photographer but I took a couple pics of a D3 and a P8, both in Best.

http://imgur.com/a/3qciT

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 12-10-2013, 01:33 PM
#12
  • vferdman
  • Artisan
  • Western Massachusetts
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I measured 25.5mm knot and 51mm loft on my No. 59 P8. It's huge as far as I am concerned. Never used a brush this large. My largest brush so far is SOC 2012 SE mixed knot. That thing swells to huge proportions when loaded with lather, but it's very strong in backbone. I have not shaved with my P8 yet, but it seems even larger than the SOC SE. I hope it displays some backbone during shaving. I am a bit worried...

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 12-10-2013, 04:06 PM
#13
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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(12-10-2013, 11:53 AM)taborcarn Wrote: I'm not the best photographer but I took a couple pics of a D3 and a P8, both in Best.

http://imgur.com/a/3qciT

Thanks for the pics John.

The P8 certainly looks larger.

What are your thoughts on the two in terms of comparing density, face presence and actual size ?

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 12-10-2013, 04:33 PM
#14
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The Duke is definitely more dense and mine has more of a bulb shape. This means that the P8 has more splay and feels larger overall while face lathering. But it has more flow-through and releases the lather easier, so I think I prefer the P8 slightly overall. I love them both though.

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 12-10-2013, 05:04 PM
#15
  • Dripp
  • Junior Member
  • Cincinnati, OH
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3 of my favorite brushes are the duke 3, rover and the P8. Very similar generally, but different when you get right down to it. My P8 is a bit more scratchy, bit has a bigger splay than the duke. A lot like the rover. But the flow through is great, but not all that different than the rover too. I enjoy using them on successive days, and have now spent more time comparing them writing this post them I ever have before. They make. great trio.

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 12-10-2013, 05:32 PM
#16
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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Thank-you for sharing your impressions John and Dripp. Your experiences reflect my own. I felt that the P8 had bigger face feel than the Duke 3 and am pleased to have your confirmation on the subject. Dripp my P8 quickly softened and I'm sure that scratchiness will ease. Happy shaves!

(12-10-2013, 04:33 PM)taborcarn Wrote: The Duke is definitely more dense and mine has more of a bulb shape. This means that the P8 has more splay and feels larger overall while face lathering. But it has more flow-through and releases the lather easier, so I think I prefer the P8 slightly overall. I love them both though.

So in summary...

P8 less dense than Duke 3
P8 less bulbous than Duke 3
P8 greater bloom than Duke 3
P8 greater face presence than Duke 3
P8 better flow through than Duke 3

(12-10-2013, 05:04 PM)Dripp Wrote: 3 of my favorite brushes are the duke 3, rover and the P8. Very similar generally, but different when you get right down to it. My P8 is a bit more scratchy, bit has a bigger splay than the duke. A lot like the rover. But the flow through is great, but not all that different than the rover too. I enjoy using them on successive days, and have now spent more time comparing them writing this post them I ever have before. They make. great trio.

So in summary...

Similar but different!

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 12-10-2013, 05:40 PM
#17
  • beartrap
  • Resident Цирюльник
  • Southern California
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As with all Simpsons, size varies slightly. Mine measures at 25x50 exactly! It does feel much larger than D3, which is just fine by me Wink

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 12-10-2013, 05:44 PM
#18
  • ben74
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  • Perth, Australia
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(12-10-2013, 05:40 PM)beartrap Wrote: As with all Simpsons, size varies slightly. Mine measures at 25x50 exactly! It does feel much larger than D3, which is just fine by me Wink

Yes the beauty of handmade products is that each one is unique.

Steve it certainly feels much bigger on the face compared to my Manchurian Duke 3 and I suspected it would still feel bigger than the Duke 3 in Best.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

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 12-10-2013, 08:17 PM
#19
  • Giorgio
  • Senior Member
  • Pennsylvania, US
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I just measured my P8 Phyl with my digital calipers and its coming in at 25.2mm X 50.1mm. My Duke 3 in best measured 24.3mm X 49.0mm. This actually surprised me because I was guessing the Duke would at least be the same if not a tad bigger.

As was already mentioned, the P8 is deceptively big. By quick glance the Duke seems a tad denser, but that's just an initial impression, and since my P8 still hasn't seen water, I'm not confident with any conclusion on density. Also since I haven't used it, I can't comment on face feel. Just running my fingers through it, mine does seem on the softer side of the best spectrum. Maybe not as soft as my Duke as I'm convinced that one is filled with super despite it being labeled as best Biggrin.

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 12-12-2013, 04:58 AM
#20
  • Rufus
  • Senior Member
  • Greater Toronto Area
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Surprisingly, I find #72 to be a bit of a lather hog when I get to the third pass; anyone else experience this? As for density, my P8 is much more dense than my Colonel, but not quite as dense as my Chubby1 best. I thought it would be closer in density to the Colonel than the Chubby1 best. After 3 shaves I'm liking the P8 very much, but I think my Colonel edges it out in terms of face feel and flow through...time will tell.

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