12-11-2013, 02:35 PM
#1
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Many here (and elsewhere) seem to think that a DLC coating enhances the shaving experience. I've read the threads but I keep thinking placebo effect. Honestly, I think the black coating, though unique, makes for one butt ugly razor. However, I am a man that values function above all else.

Why is the DLC coating desirable? How, specifically, does it enhance one's shave? Terms like smoother and less drag are too nebulous. Has the supposed improvement been quantified?

Obviously I'm skeptical. Clearly manufacturers are as well, otherwise every one would be offering a DLC coating for a higher price thereby enhancing profits. If you happen to like black, that's great ... but that doesn't make DLC razors a better razor, only prettier in your view. I have a bias for black handled brushes. I get that, but also understand the brush performs the same as another colored handle

I don't need to be convinced. I'm just trying to understand.

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 12-11-2013, 02:39 PM
#2
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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I don't think there's a unifying or definitive explanation for the 'DLC Effect', IMO.

People who love their DLC razors, swear that the coating affords added benefits in terms of performance. Could there be a placebo effect playing a role ... possibly. I suspect there is a component of both contributing to the success of these razors.
All of this is exceedingly difficult to quantify, so we are left to speculate ...

Limited supply certainly adds to the allure as well.

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 12-11-2013, 02:40 PM
#3
  • beartrap
  • Resident Цирюльник
  • Southern California
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I believe you, I was skeptical too. Shave with it for a week, made a believer out of me Wink

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 12-11-2013, 02:49 PM
#4
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Nothing like personal experience. No question about that Biggrin

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 12-11-2013, 03:14 PM
#5
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If they make a DLC Cobra, I'm in Biggrin

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 12-11-2013, 03:20 PM
#6
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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(12-11-2013, 03:14 PM)Jmartz Wrote: If they make a DLC Cobra, I'm in Biggrin

Signs011

Regardless of any performance difference, a DLC razor would be ... sexy! Blush

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 12-11-2013, 03:37 PM
#7
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I agree with Ravi, there is no "proof" or definitive answer. I own all three Weber razors and the DLC is by far the smoothest and comfortable of the three. DLC isn't slick, it is actually slightly "grippy" which contributes to it's unique face feel IMO. Is it better? That is for you to decide. I for one really enjoy the coating.

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 12-11-2013, 03:42 PM
#8
  • Agravic
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  • Pennsylvania, USA
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(12-11-2013, 03:37 PM)cessnabird Wrote: I agree with Ravi, there is no "proof" or definitive answer. I own all three Weber razors and the DLC is by far the smoothest and comfortable of the three. DLC isn't slick, it is actually slightly "grippy" which contributes to it's unique face feel IMO. Is it better? That is for you to decide. I for one really enjoy the coating.

I had all 3 of the Weber razors at one point.
Interestingly, I actually found the ARC to be my favorite ... it seemed to 'slide smoothest' for me. I agree that the DLC actually 'grips' the skin a little differently from the other 2 ... which I actually didn't care for.
In other words, I 'believe the hype to be real' with regards to the ARC ... but not so much with the DLC ... Biggrin

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 12-11-2013, 03:44 PM
#9
  • Lradke
  • Senior Member
  • Edmonton, Alberta
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(12-11-2013, 03:14 PM)Jmartz Wrote: If they make a DLC Cobra, I'm in Biggrin

I dreamt that I had a DLC Cobra last night! It was the coolest thing!!

--------

What's the ARC?

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 12-11-2013, 04:51 PM
#10
  • Arcadies
  • Senior Member
  • Greeneville, TN
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I've had a polished for a while and bought a DLC from Weber last Nov/Dec...both gave the same great, medium aggression shave. However, the DLC was slightly smoother and I mean by a very very VERY small margin.
I ended up keeping the polished and selling the DLC in April. To me, the slightly smoother shave wasn't worth the price DLC's are/were commanding, so on it went to a new owner.

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 12-11-2013, 05:07 PM
#11
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* Luke, the ARC was one of the three razor heads that Weber offered.

* Al, I was never skeptical as I had not heard anything about any difference between the three Weber heads, ARC, DLC and then the PH. I started off with the DLC and, then, after got the ARC as I really enjoyed the DLC. Once getting the ARC, I soon realized that it was not shaving me similarly and it was, sadly, a bit too harsh for my skin compared to the DLC which was very smooth. I tried shaving with the ARC for 3 weeks, consecutively, but had to accept that it was too much for my sensitive skin on a daily basis. I then kept shaving with the DLC and realized after going back to other razors that it was much smoother than everything I had. I then got the PH head thinking it might be similar, but, again, I experienced the same unfortunate situation as the ARC. I then thought that getting it coated with a Cerakote coating, which I had thought was what they used with the DLC coating. However, after getting this done, I realized, for a third time, that my fate was sealed in using only the DLC as the Cerakote PH head shaved similarly to the ARC and PH (regular head). I tried my best to have an objective view while shaving with all of these heads and just let my skin feel/sense the difference in the all of them. As a result, my skin was telling me that the DLC head was indeed the smoothest of all the Weber heads. I know that they all have the same dimensions, but I still adamantly believe that the DLC coating is affecting the shave in some way. I have no proof of this, but quite a few folks can attest to this.
Regardless of all of this, the only way to confirm this is to try it for yourself and, unfortunately, this is getting much, much more difficult and expensive to do as the DLC is no longer being made. I highly doubt anyone or anything will be able to convince folks until they actually try one. Nonetheless, it may actually not be a good shaver for everyone as there are some folks like Ravi who noticed no difference between the 3 heads. It may just depend on each individuals skin type and tolerance to different shavers, I believe.
I hope you can try one at some point! Biggrin

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 12-11-2013, 05:56 PM
#12
  • Johnny
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  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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(12-11-2013, 03:44 PM)Lradke Wrote:
(12-11-2013, 03:14 PM)Jmartz Wrote: If they make a DLC Cobra, I'm in Biggrin

I dreamt that I had a DLC Cobra last night! It was the coolest thing!!

--------

What's the ARC?

I dreamed I was on the beach with a good looking blonde in a bikini last night. One of us has our priorities messed up. Smile

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 12-11-2013, 05:59 PM
#13
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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(12-11-2013, 05:56 PM)Johnny Wrote:
(12-11-2013, 03:44 PM)Lradke Wrote:
(12-11-2013, 03:14 PM)Jmartz Wrote: If they make a DLC Cobra, I'm in Biggrin

I dreamt that I had a DLC Cobra last night! It was the coolest thing!!

--------

What's the ARC?

I dreamed I was on the beach with a good looking blonde in a bikini last night. One of us has our priorities messed up. Smile

Was the blonde coated with DLC? 24

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 12-11-2013, 06:10 PM
#14
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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DLC or Diamond Like Coating is desirable because of its micro hardness AND more importantly for us shavers it's low coefficient of friction.

For the technically minded:

DLC coatings are formed when ionized and decomposed carbon or hydrocarbon species land on the surface of a substrate with energy typically 10-300eV. DLC films may possess exceptional mechanical (high hardness), optical (high optical band gap), electrical (high electrical resistivity), chemical (inert) and tribological (low friction and wear coefficient) properties and can be deposited at low substrate temperature (<200°C).

DLC films are generally amorphous (i.e have no dominant crystalline lattice structure) and consist of a mixture of sp2 (graphite) & sp3 (diamond) phases. Control of film properties is strongly dependent on the flux characteristics of the chosen deposition technique (PVD sputter or evaporation and Pa-CVD), metal and hydrogen content within the film, sp2:sp3 ratio, substrate bias voltage, ion energy and ion density as well as substrate temperature. DLC film friction coefficient against steel generally ranges from 0.05-0.20, whilst film hardness and sp3 content can be tailored for specific applications. Metal and hydrogen containing DLC (Me-DLC or a-C:H:Me) exhibit hardness in the range 500-2000HV with 35% sp3, metal free DLC (C-DLC or a-C:H) typically 1500-4000HV and up to 75% sp3 , whilst tetrahedral amorphous carbon (ta-C) can be 4000-9000HV with 80-85% sp3.


For those like me that prefer a pretty picture:

[Image: dNwKJNp.jpg]

In summary, DLC provides less drag or resistance than non coated steel.

Mathematically the hype is real, but for some the discernible difference is not noticeable. IMO DLC does make a difference. I've also noticed similar experiences with gold vs nickel and satin finish vs nickel.

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 12-11-2013, 06:24 PM
#15
  • Harvey
  • Senior Member
  • North Hills CA
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Which is exactly why I like my wooden razor so much....no messy coatings for me...just a real mans tool...our faces can take it...no sissy stuff...just sharpen a stick and drag it over your face...you will see what I mean...sure you might bleed a bit but good grief we are tuff and don,t whine about a bit of skin and blood....shape up men and give me 50!!!!!!!BiggrinBiggrinA6ChuckFiredevil

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 12-11-2013, 06:29 PM
#16
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You know, I was going to plead my own case on the DLC but Celestino pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.

The DLC is all I use anymore and I'm coming to the conclusion that its more than likely going to remain that way as long as I can keep it in my possession.

The incredibly funny thing to me about the OP's feelings on the aesthetics of the razor, is that during its release, I completely felt the same way and thought the black head looked butt ugly and so out of place on a beautiful shinny stainless steel handle. Biggrin

My anal retentivness would have loved nothing better, than to have the PH shave just as well, that way I can admire a nice uniform peace of shinny steal on my bathroom counter but the proof, as they say, was in the pudding and the DLC then and now has won me over simply by its undeniably smooth and comfortable performance.

WEBER, if you're out there listening, stop ignoring the demand of for this razor and BRING IT BACK ALREADY!!! Daddy need a back up!Biggrin

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 12-11-2013, 06:30 PM
#17
  • Lradke
  • Senior Member
  • Edmonton, Alberta
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(12-11-2013, 05:59 PM)Agravic Wrote:
(12-11-2013, 05:56 PM)Johnny Wrote:
(12-11-2013, 03:44 PM)Lradke Wrote: I dreamt that I had a DLC Cobra last night! It was the coolest thing!!

--------

What's the ARC?

I dreamed I was on the beach with a good looking blonde in a bikini last night. One of us has our priorities messed up. Smile

Was the blonde coated with DLC? 24

Lol!!

(12-11-2013, 06:24 PM)Harvey Wrote: Which is exactly why I like my wooden razor so much....no messy coatings for me...just a real mans tool...our faces can take it...no sissy stuff...just sharpen a stick and drag it over your face...you will see what I mean...sure you might bleed a bit but good grief we are tuff and don,t whine about a bit of skin and blood....shape up men and give me 50!!!!!!!BiggrinBiggrinA6ChuckFiredevil

So your saying you use one of these? O_o

[Image: jajy3uvu.jpg]

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 12-11-2013, 06:41 PM
#18
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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(12-11-2013, 02:39 PM)Agravic Wrote: I don't think there's a unifying or definitive explanation for the 'DLC Effect', IMO.

People who love their DLC razors, swear that the coating affords added benefits in terms of performance. Could there be a placebo effect playing a role ... possibly. I suspect there is a component of both contributing to the success of these razors.
All of this is exceedingly difficult to quantify, so we are left to speculate ...

Limited supply certainly adds to the allure as well.

Ravi, the DLC Effect is real, it's based on a lower coefficient of friction (the coating provides less friction than stainless steel and other metals used to coat razors).

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 12-11-2013, 07:43 PM
#19
  • Harvey
  • Senior Member
  • North Hills CA
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(12-11-2013, 06:30 PM)Lradke Wrote:
(12-11-2013, 05:59 PM)Agravic Wrote:
(12-11-2013, 05:56 PM)Johnny Wrote: I dreamed I was on the beach with a good looking blonde in a bikini last night. One of us has our priorities messed up. Smile

Was the blonde coated with DLC? 24

Lol!!

(12-11-2013, 06:24 PM)Harvey Wrote: Which is exactly why I like my wooden razor so much....no messy coatings for me...just a real mans tool...our faces can take it...no sissy stuff...just sharpen a stick and drag it over your face...you will see what I mean...sure you might bleed a bit but good grief we are tuff and don,t whine about a bit of skin and blood....shape up men and give me 50!!!!!!!BiggrinBiggrinA6ChuckFiredevil

So your saying you use one of these? O_o

[Image: jajy3uvu.jpg]

Great advancement...I just use the stick....heat it up in the fire and voila...No hair!!!!!...I,ll try your way when my face heals upBiggrinTongueCool

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 12-11-2013, 08:10 PM
#20
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Celestino, I actually do find that all three shave differently. The DLC is smoothest, then Polished, lastly the ARC. The coatings (on my razors at least) slightly affect the blade gap with my DLC being the smallest of the three. That could also contribute to my enjoying the smoothness of that particular razor as well.

What about you guys who picked up the Jet recently... Thoughts?

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