01-23-2014, 02:05 AM
#1
  • Sanch
  • Active Member
  • Tennessee
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Recently I ordered a couple of knots BOAR and upon receipt I found the package to be less than adequate. The knots were smashed pretty badly. Also they were advertised to be 24-25mm, wrong they measure on the low end of 22mm so the handles that I planned had to be "adjusted" 2-3mm may not sound like alot in the big scheme but it is an aggravation to order and receive a product inadequately pakaged,, deformed and not as advertised. I sent an email to TGN and haven't been contacted as of yet. Hmmm. This isn't TGN I have been reading all the praise about surely.

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 01-23-2014, 06:48 AM
#2
  • freddy
  • Banned
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
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I ordered just one knot from them about a year ago and the transaction went as smooth as silk. I hope this can be rectified for you.

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 01-23-2014, 07:27 AM
#3
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I also hope this gets taken care of. When you decide to do business with a company, and things like this happen, it leaves a sour taste in your mouth, so to speak.

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 01-23-2014, 07:44 AM
#4
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When did you send the email?

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 01-23-2014, 09:23 AM
#5
  • krissy
  • Active Member
  • Cando, North Dakota
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How was it packaged? Bubble envelope? Box?

I have ordered several times and all my packages were sent in small flat rate boxes.

Is it possible the PO is at fault for smashing them in transit. They don't always take the best care of packages. As a vendor I often use bubble mail envelopes myself for first class and priority mail shipping.

As for the size.... How did you measure? I believe Tony would use a caliper for the most accurate way of measuring. A ruler just doesn't quite cut it IMHO.... hubby uses a caliper when small measurements needs to be accurate. When your talking a difference between 2-4 mm, that can be a lot if not using the right equipment as it's not a big difference in size. Or Tony could have made a simple human error, it does happen from time to time......
[Image: caliper2.jpg]

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 01-23-2014, 04:08 PM
#6
  • Sanch
  • Active Member
  • Tennessee
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(01-23-2014, 07:44 AM)insomniac Wrote: When did you send the email?
The email was sent the same night that I opened the package via the web page contact message.

(01-23-2014, 09:23 AM)krissy Wrote: How was it packaged? Bubble envelope? Box?
I have ordered several times and all my packages were sent in small flat rate boxes.

Is it possible the PO is at fault for smashing them in transit. They don't always take the best care of packages. As a vendor I often use bubble mail envelopes myself for first class and priority mail shipping.

As for the size.... How did you measure? I believe Tony would use a caliper for the most accurate way of measuring. A ruler just doesn't quite cut it IMHO.... hubby uses a caliper when small measurements needs to be accurate. When your talking a difference between 2-4 mm, that can be a lot if not using the right equipment as it's not a big difference in size. Or Tony could have made a simple human error, it does happen from time to time......
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[Image: caliper2.jpg]
The knots were packaged in a plastic zip to seal baggy inside a bubble envelope. I only ordered 2 knots maybe that is why they were in the envelope and not in something more substantial...?
The three times that I measured the knots the measurement was with a set of digital calipers, the same set that I use when measuring the pins used in my knife making...they were zeroed each time and they are accurate...
As to the 'human error' factor I most definitely have taken this into consideration and just because I am not pleased with my transaction as of now doesn't mean that I am completely calling it quits. I am simply stating that this is not the kind of service and care I have read about...also please do not misunderstand my posting this as a low blow to anyone as that is just not my intention nor my way...I am simply expressing my frustration in that the mishap has caused aggravation that has not been addressed...Thank you for your replies....

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 01-23-2014, 10:15 PM
#7
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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It may also depend on where you are taking the measurement. If the knot is to be set x number of mm below the surface of the handle, tony may be taking that into account. The advertised diameter may be the diameter at the surface of the handle.

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 01-23-2014, 10:31 PM
#8
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(01-23-2014, 10:15 PM)bullgoose Wrote: It may also depend on where you are taking the measurement. If the knot is to be set x number of mm below the surface of the handle, tony may be taking that into account. The advertised diameter may be the diameter at the surface of the handle.

That's brings up a question I had about measuring the knot size. If a brush is advertised as XXmm, is that across the hair at the point where it meets the handle when in a brush, or are knots measures down closer to the bottom.

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 01-23-2014, 11:14 PM
#9
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Knots are usually measured about 15mm from the base so they'll fit in the hole drilled for them. Plug size is usually about 1-2mm smaller than this size.

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 01-24-2014, 04:11 AM
#10
  • Sanch
  • Active Member
  • Tennessee
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(01-23-2014, 11:14 PM)asharperrazor Wrote: Knots are usually measured about 15mm from the base so they'll fit in the hole drilled for them. Plug size is usually about 1-2mm smaller than this size.
That having been said. The error was and is mine the knot size at the 15mm point is more than advertised (apply operator head space and timing and my human error here) in my honest opinion the packaging should have been addressed in some manner. A simple email would have sufficed...none the less once I get the brushes together I will find out the outcome, and plan on contacting Tony again in regards to this.

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 01-24-2014, 09:51 AM
#11
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(01-24-2014, 04:11 AM)Sanch Wrote:
(01-23-2014, 11:14 PM)asharperrazor Wrote: Knots are usually measured about 15mm from the base so they'll fit in the hole drilled for them. Plug size is usually about 1-2mm smaller than this size.
That having been said. The error was and is mine the knot size at the 15mm point is more than advertised (apply operator head space and timing and my human error here) in my honest opinion the packaging should have been addressed in some manner. A simple email would have sufficed...none the less once I get the brushes together I will find out the outcome, and plan on contacting Tony again in regards to this.

Just curious, but what are the dimensions of the hole you're trying to fill? I ask because unless you've drilled it 12mm or less deep, if the hole is 24mm diameter, the knots should fill the hole correctly.

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 01-24-2014, 04:01 PM
#12
  • Sanch
  • Active Member
  • Tennessee
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(01-24-2014, 09:51 AM)asharperrazor Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 04:11 AM)Sanch Wrote:
(01-23-2014, 11:14 PM)asharperrazor Wrote: Knots are usually measured about 15mm from the base so they'll fit in the hole drilled for them. Plug size is usually about 1-2mm smaller than this size.
That having been said. The error was and is mine the knot size at the 15mm point is more than advertised (apply operator head space and timing and my human error here) in my honest opinion the packaging should have been addressed in some manner. A simple email would have sufficed...none the less once I get the brushes together I will find out the outcome, and plan on contacting Tony again in regards to this.

Just curious, but what are the dimensions of the hole you're trying to fill? I ask because unless you've drilled it 12mm or less deep, if the hole is 24mm diameter, the knots should fill the hole correctly.
That was part of the aggravation the depth of the hole and diameter, I am having the handles spun out of Aircraft grade aluminum so my original plan (blue print) has changed the latest version now has the hole at a depth of 15mm (same as the 1st print) that has not changed, the diameter has changed twice now and I'm sticking to it now that I have more of a 'clear as mud' Biggrin thought of what I intend to do. the hole will taper from a 23mm to 29mm diameter which is what the knot measures at 15mm from the base...we'll see how it works out..!

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 01-25-2014, 03:44 PM
#13
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I only bought 2 times at TGN, and both of them went smoothly. No problem at all, fast shipping (even to Europe) and badger knots just as expected.

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 01-27-2014, 11:11 AM
#14
  • wingdo
  • The Dude Abides
  • Florida
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(01-24-2014, 04:01 PM)Sanch Wrote: the hole will taper from a 23mm to 29mm diameter which is what the knot measures at 15mm from the base...we'll see how it works out..!

That is an interesting way to do the hole. Usually the hole is not tapered. I am not sure how much a boar will fan out over the 15mm depth, but I think asking a 6mm difference over that 15mm is asking a lot. I've had good luck with TGN, perhaps you can send another email just to make certain he received your first one. You may also want to mention the exact needs you are looking to meet (22mm at plug, 27-28mm, 15mm up the base) to see if he even has something to fit the bill.

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 01-27-2014, 05:44 PM
#15
  • Sanch
  • Active Member
  • Tennessee
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(01-27-2014, 11:11 AM)wingdo Wrote:
(01-24-2014, 04:01 PM)Sanch Wrote: the hole will taper from a 23mm to 29mm diameter which is what the knot measures at 15mm from the base...we'll see how it works out..!

That is an interesting way to do the hole. Usually the hole is not tapered. I am not sure how much a boar will fan out over the 15mm depth, but I think asking a 6mm difference over that 15mm is asking a lot. I've had good luck with TGN, perhaps you can send another email just to make certain he received your first one. You may also want to mention the exact needs you are looking to meet (22mm at plug, 27-28mm, 15mm up the base) to see if he even has something to fit the bill.
Doug, thank you for the advice! part of the 15mm is mostly plug a good half of it that is. so the knot should be ok and if it goes kaput then I will chalk it up as a learning experience...as far as the third email I don't think at this time it will be a necessity, when I do order again I will contact them and request a more substantial package even if it costs me more so be it...also as to ordering something more to 'fit the bill' I think it would be more conducive to make the handle to fit the knot? unless I was re-knotting a handle so meh ya live and learn!

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 01-27-2014, 06:27 PM
#16
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That doesn't sound like them at all. Hopefully they make it right!!

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 01-28-2014, 05:04 PM
#17
  • Sanch
  • Active Member
  • Tennessee
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long story short I did get an email and the issues were resolved..for my part..keeping the knots making due also calling it a lesson learned specificity on next order will be made as for packaging and also size requirements....Thanks for all the replies and suggestions...

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 01-28-2014, 06:02 PM
#18
  • vferdman
  • Senior Member
  • Western Massachusetts
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I buy from TGN a lot. Possibly over a dozen knots in the past few years. Boar, badger. Mine arrive perfectly fine and only once there was a mistake in the kind of boar knot. I ordered the Omega 22mm unbanded and received Omega 24mm banded. I called Tony and he told me to keep the wrong knot and sent me the correct one ASAP. I prefer to call and speak with someone there, they usually are very accommodating.

Once I did not see a particular size of knot in stock on their website, but I really needed two of them fast. I called and spoke to Vanessa about my plight. She said that Tony usually keeps some knots in reserve for his projects and she would see if he'd let them go. He did and I got two knots that were officially out of stock on the website for about two weeks or so. I got mine in two days. This is the kind of service and personal attention I get from TGN.

Sounds like your knots were not damaged, only trampled a little. No harm done? Why make a fuss? Also, the size of knot as TGN sells them is measured at the bottom of the glue puck +/-. I found all the knots I bought from TGN were consistent with that.

Best of luck on the brush project, but I think it's not very useful to jump the gun and accuse a respected vendor before the issue has been settled one way or another.

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 02-08-2014, 08:51 PM
#19
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I have ordered twice and they came in fine , I usually tell him in a note ,,,,, make sure it is even and not lopsided,, they came fine, in a flat envelope but nothing a a good soap initiation did not cure

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 02-10-2014, 06:50 PM
#20
  • Sanch
  • Active Member
  • Tennessee
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(01-28-2014, 06:02 PM)vferdman Wrote: I buy from TGN a lot. Possibly over a dozen knots in the past few years. Boar, badger. Mine arrive perfectly fine and only once there was a mistake in the kind of boar knot. I ordered the Omega 22mm unbanded and received Omega 24mm banded. I called Tony and he told me to keep the wrong knot and sent me the correct one ASAP. I prefer to call and speak with someone there, they usually are very accommodating.

Once I did not see a particular size of knot in stock on their website, but I really needed two of them fast. I called and spoke to Vanessa about my plight. She said that Tony usually keeps some knots in reserve for his projects and she would see if he'd let them go. He did and I got two knots that were officially out of stock on the website for about two weeks or so. I got mine in two days. This is the kind of service and personal attention I get from TGN.

Sounds like your knots were not damaged, only trampled a little. No harm done? Why make a fuss? Also, the size of knot as TGN sells them is measured at the bottom of the glue puck +/-. I found all the knots I bought from TGN were consistent with that.

Best of luck on the brush project, but I think it's not very useful to jump the gun and accuse a respected vendor before the issue has been settled one way or another.

Sir, Thank you for your reply and if you will note that the issue was resolved.. The knots were measured at the "glue puck" and I did use the knots. I adjusted the handles that were turned, fortunately my machinist is a understanding friend. Also there were no accusations made. Facts were stated from my perspective. Like I stated the issue is resolved and I will reorder from TGN again. Oh and thanks for wishing me good luck with the brushes they came out fine!
[Image: 20140131_204513-1_zpssadytrvb.jpg]

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