04-21-2014, 01:25 PM
#1
  • Nero
  • Ban Groupthink from Earth
  • le montagne
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Hey Guys,
I am looking for a 3rd brush to fill a gap in the quiver.
So, I have done just a little bit of looking around, and I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on a Thater 4125/3 I 28MM Two-Band Finest Silvertip in Fan shape.

Am I looking at the right brush if I want a good SOAP brush that is soft as a cloud on the face, but has some decent backbone?

I am a bit of an amateur when it comes to "brush knowledge".
Thanks for your guidance!

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 04-21-2014, 01:31 PM
#2
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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That is a great brush, but if you are after softness and great backbone I would vote for Thäter 2 Band instead. Also a fan will splay quite a bit in that size. You may want to consider a bulb or downsize the fan to 26mm.
Of course YMMV.
(04-21-2014, 01:25 PM)Nero Wrote: Hey Guys,
I am looking for a 3rd brush to fill a gap in the quiver.
So, I have done just a little bit of looking around, and I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on a Thater 4125/3 I 28MM Two-Band Finest Silvertip in Fan shape.

Am I looking at the right brush if I want a good SOAP brush that is soft as a cloud on the face, but has some decent backbone?

I am a bit of an amateur when it comes to "brush knowledge".
Thanks for your guidance!

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 04-21-2014, 01:49 PM
#3
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I would opt for a bulb. I had the same brush you are considering and sold it precisely because I didn't care for the splay of the fan. Finding the right balance between softness and backbone is a subjective matter. I replaced the Thater with a 28mm Shavemac D02 2-band bulb. The Thater is softer, but the Shavemac has more density and backbone.

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 04-21-2014, 04:24 PM
#4
  • Nero
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  • le montagne
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(04-21-2014, 01:31 PM)German Wrote: That is a great brush, but if you are after softness and great backbone I would vote for Thäter 2 Band instead. Also a fan will splay quite a bit in that size. You may want to consider a bulb or downsize the fan to 26mm.
Of course YMMV.

The one I'm thinking of is a 2-band (sorry, it probably got lost in the long name Smile)

(04-21-2014, 01:49 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: I would opt for a bulb. I had the same brush you are considering and sold it precisely because I didn't care for the splay of the fan. Finding the right balance between softness and backbone is a subjective matter. I replaced the Thater with a 28mm Shavemac D02 2-band bulb. The Thater is softer, but the Shavemac has more density and backbone.


Clearly, I'm more of a brush-amateur than I thought.

Can someone describe the Pros and Cons for Bulb vs. Fan brushes?

To me, it seems logical that in a Bulb, the outer ring bristles are in a pretty useless spot, since they don't really touch your face or the soap. In a Fan, all bristles would be in contact with soap and face.

Also, why is splaying a bad thing? … especially if I'm looking for softness on the face?


I should also state that I was originally leaning toward the higher knot size (28, instead of 26) because the larger knot comes with a larger loft (56 vs 49).
This seems better to me, since I just returned a brush that was too dense and too short. I figure if I get a fan shape with a larger loft, then the chance of it being too dense goes down considerably, right??

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 04-21-2014, 08:50 PM
#5
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Matt, you are correct in your presumptions, but the 28mm fan might splay too greatly and you may find it takes up your whole face when lathering. The Bulb might provide you with more control of where you want the lather to go and feel a bit smaller. Just a thought unless you really like big brushes.
Best of luck.

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 04-21-2014, 09:28 PM
#6
  • Nero
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  • le montagne
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(04-21-2014, 08:50 PM)celestino Wrote: Matt, you are correct in your presumptions, but the 28mm fan might splay too greatly and you may find it takes up your whole face when lathering. The Bulb might provide you with more control of where you want the lather to go and feel a bit smaller. Just a thought unless you really like big brushes.
Best of luck.

Thank you, Celestino!

At what size (mm) does a Fan start to feel too huge and start to give problems in regards to "brush/lather accuracy"?
Or, say, if my one Bulb brush is 28mm and I want to mimic it in a Fan, do I subtract 2-3mm and get a Fan in 25-26mm? (… just assume the same loft, unless Fans are usually x mm less than their Bulb counterpart)

Another question: Do Fans generally have more "flow-through" than their Bulb counterpart?

(04-21-2014, 01:31 PM)German Wrote: (…) downsize the fan to 26mm.
Of course YMMV.

German, I am starting to think this is exactly what I need to do since I am pretty darn sure I want a Fan (… if for no other reason than the fact that both my current brushes are Bulbs).

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 04-22-2014, 12:12 AM
#7
  • Giorgio
  • Senior Member
  • Pennsylvania, US
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I have the 4125/3 in 2 band bulb and I definitely wouldn't want it in a fan. I am thinking about picking up a Thater in a fan shape at some point to try it out (pretty low on my priority list right now among others), and the size I planned on getting was a 24mm. The knots already run a little big, and of course since the fan shape contacts more of your face at once, that size seems right at my sweet spot Wink.

Good luck in choosing your brush. Whatever size you go with, I don't think the Thater will disappoint Biggrin

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 04-22-2014, 12:25 AM
#8
  • Nero
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  • le montagne
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(04-22-2014, 12:12 AM)Giorgio Wrote: I have the 4125/3 in 2 band bulb and I definitely wouldn't want it in a fan. I am thinking about picking up a Thater in a fan shape at some point to try it out (pretty low on my priority list right now among others), and the size I planned on getting was a 24mm. The knots already run a little big, and of course since the fan shape contacts more of your face at once, that size seems right at my sweet spot Wink.

Good luck in choosing your brush. Whatever size you go with, I don't think the Thater will disappoint Biggrin

Nice, thanks for the input Giorgio!

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 04-23-2014, 11:34 PM
#9
  • Nero
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Which one of these would be best at shredding soap to smithereens? I assume they're both soft as a cloud… I get a sense that Thater is known for that.
But does that mean Thaters are not good for soaps… especially their Fans?

1. two-band Thater, fan shape, knot 24, loft 49

2. two-band Thater, fan shape, knot 22, loft 50

Thank you

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 04-24-2014, 02:32 AM
#10
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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The more backbone and less soft tips result in soap shredding. This doesn't mean your Thater will not work well with hard soaps, it may just require some extra loading time.

If you were to ask bulb versus fan with the same knot specs, I'd suggest that your bulb would load hard soaps faster. Although there is less surface area on the soap, the integrity of the knot is greater, providing a more structured presentation and further resistance against the soap.

IMO, deciding on a fan should be based more on knot size preference. If you have found a sweet spot in size with a bulb, the same sized fan will feel much larger. If you want it to cover the same amount of surface area (and not more), select at lest a few mm less in diameter...

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 04-24-2014, 02:52 AM
#11
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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Ok, so here is my tale of two Thaters... (Or even simply, Bulb versus Fan)

Both Thaters have the same handle.
Both are 2 band.
Both have super soft tips.
Both have approximately 26 x 55mm knots.

But... One has a BULB shaped knot and the other a FAN.

[Image: eNkSPoU.jpg] [Image: woDoOD0.jpg]

[Image: 7VhMOFi.jpg] [Image: 6SlJ5BU.jpg]

The FAN feels huge on the face compared to the BULB.
It is extremely soft, as is the BULB, but the BULB feels more structured and more concentrated on the face.
The FAN feels less dense than the BULB and has greater flow through.
The FAN has the feel of a bigger brush.
The FAN allows me to experience the "full" knot on my face, rather than the focused centre section as with the BULB.
The FAN certainly splays, but not in a way that would make it "mop-like".
The FAN displays some backbone, but not nearly as much as the more focused BULB.
Both load cream easily, but loading time is increased with the FAN on hard soaps.

In summary...

Both have reasonable flow through, but the FAN more so.
Both have very soft tips, but the FAN has an overall softer presentation.
Both have backbone and density, but in measured doses and the FAN displays less of both.

And... I'm a big fan of the FAN!

But... More so for creams and bowl lathering.

It is without surprise, that I really enjoy the hybrid (almost fan-esque) shape of my Simpson Manchurian brushes.
These are IMO very good face latherers and excellent on hard soaps given their ample backbone.
The Thater should be softer at the tips and will have a softer presentation on the face.
The Thater will produce just as good lather, but loading hard soaps might take just a little longer and more so with the FAN.

* * *

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 04-24-2014, 03:49 AM
#12
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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I would go with the 24/49mm knot (size 1).
If you want more backbone I would choose a Bulb in size 2 (26mm knot). I agree pretty much with everything Ben has mentioned above regarding fan vs. bulb. Neither, however, will have any problems picking up hard soaps (that's all I do).
(04-23-2014, 11:34 PM)Nero Wrote: Which one of these would be best at shredding soap to smithereens? I assume they're both soft as a cloud… I get a sense that Thater is known for that.
But does that mean Thaters are not good for soaps… especially their Fans?

1. two-band Thater, fan shape, knot 24, loft 49

2. two-band Thater, fan shape, knot 22, loft 50

Thank you

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 04-24-2014, 12:29 PM
#13
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I second Ben's advice on a hybrid manchurian. My emperor 3 is only slightly curved along the top and it is hugs the face as you apply circles to you face. Thing munches soaps and loves the face.

Be aware IMO manchurian is scratchy until broken in and then it's glorious.

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 04-24-2014, 06:23 PM
#14
  • Nero
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Guys, thanks for all your thoughtful responses! There is just so much to learn and experience, and every sentence I read of yours results in my having four new questions (It's natural bc I'm inquisitive and a bit of a perfectionist when I want to be. Plus, I don't really want to have an arsenal of brushes (yet|)).
That said, I really don't find my current 22/55 BULB to be small. And if the Thater 22 has a length of 50 in a FAN, then I might be in pretty good shape.
Plus, I imagine the 2-Band won't splay quite as much as a 3-Band (all else equal),.. I'm kinda convincing myself want the 22/50 2-Band in a Fan.

The honest truth is I want to order 8 of them!

One of those questions that I've been meaning to ask…
All else equal, will a 22 knot or a 24 knot in a Fan load hard soaps easier?

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