04-24-2014, 06:38 AM
#1
User Info
Folks I have zero experience with these and when I saw Bullgoose tweet about them I had to pull the trigger on one. I'm gonna try one of these as I've never tried horsehair: http://www.bullgooseshaving.com/vie-long...l-edition/

What are your general feelings on horsehair brushes? How do they compare to badger/boar?

19 881
Reply
 04-24-2014, 06:46 AM
#2
  • Balj86
  • Senior Member
  • Maryland USA
User Info
They are pretty good if you like scrub. I think out of all brushes they make some of the best lathers. It will take time to break in and will have have some scritch in the beginning if you face lather. Good thing it won't hurt the bank, if you don't like it you can just BST.

10 963
Reply
 04-24-2014, 06:47 AM
#3
User Info
I have the brown horse hair 13065. It's the brush I use the most. It's perfect, soft, scritchy, and works well with both soaps and creams. That and my money 49 are my favorites, over a couple of silver tips from Muhle and Hommage. You will like it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

0 37
Reply
 04-24-2014, 06:48 AM
#4
User Info
I feel they are somewhere between badger and boar with respect to softness/firmness. The White horsehair you selected contains a 50/50 mix of mane and tail hair which is considerably softer than the Brown 35/65 mix. Phil's description that the horse brushes, particularly the White, are similar to a best badger brush, soft with a bit of scritch, is generally accurate.

0 386
Reply
 04-24-2014, 08:09 AM
#5
  • W.S.O.
  • Banned
  • Philadelphia, Pa
User Info
This may sound a bit lofty but I feel it is accurate. If you like Simpsons in Best I think you will like the vie long horse.
I started with a horse badger mix as I did not want to go with a full horsehair knot. I bought the Vie-Long 2013 Beehive Mixed knot. I absolutely loved it. So much so that I bought a second of the exact same brush! I like this brush so much it is in my top 3 of brushes.
Next I purchased the super cheap turkish #6 horsehair brush to try an all horsehair knot. It was pretty good. Good enough that I decided a better quality all horsehair knot brush purchase was in order,
Then I got a vie-long all horse (13061) in a trade and I loved it. This got me to seek out the vie-long beehive in all horse and the person generously threw in a vie long peleon. Both of which I love.
When Phil came out with the Lord Randal honesty I did not have intentions of buying it as I felt I was well covered and didnt need another horse brush, but since when has this hobby ever been about need? I did not have a natural white horse so that is what I purchased. It is a bit softer than the brown but also has a bit less backbone than the brown horsehair. It may very well be the perfect mix of softness, scritch and backbone for use in lathering and using in any way you choose. Now granted I only have a couple uses with it so it does remain to be seen how it fully plays out. In my experience the horsehair brushes do break in a bit but no where near like a boar. The changes are much less significant so in my opinion what you get when you use it initially will not drastically change, it seems to me you get a tad more softness over time.
I am seriously considering getting rid of all of my boar and all of my badger except my absolute favorites or restores that mean something to me.
I like the horsehair brushes that much. My favorite brushes could unintentionally end up being synthetics and horse or horse/badger mix.

Oh I also want to add, whether you end up liking the brush or not one thing I am sure you will conclude is the quality of the Vie-Long product. Their brush quality is superb in my opinion. The handles, the knots do not shed. They truly provide a top quality product in my opinion. When I can buy a $42 brush and its performance and quality is up there with my Simpsons Colonel X2L I am impressed.

9 429
Reply
 04-24-2014, 08:49 AM
#6
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
User Info
Actually the white and brown horse are both 35/65. I have no idea where people got the idea the white is 50/50. The dyed/bleached horse is 50/50 but all of the natural horse has a 35/65 ratio.

46 18,625
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:03 AM
#7
User Info
(04-24-2014, 08:49 AM)bullgoose Wrote: Actually the white and brown horse are both 35/65. I have no idea where people got the idea the white is 50/50. The dyed/bleached horse is 50/50 but all of the natural horse has a 35/65 ratio.

At Gifts & Care, unquestionably the largest Vie Long dealer with a close relationship like yourself with the manufacturer, all the White and dyed horse hair brushes are 50/50 mane/tail and all the Brown are 35/65. The product descriptions are quite clear. The assumption was that this was standard for Vie Long horse hair brushes.

Did you order custom brushes that differ from this purported standard or is the assumption entirely incorrect?

0 386
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:05 AM
#8
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
User Info
I have been very surprised by the Natural Horse Hair in your new SE. It was very soft right of the box. There is no scritch whatsoever (unless you really mash the knot into your face). The natural white knot out of the box had a softer face feel than some 2 band badgers that I own and is way ahead of any best badger or boar knot that I have tried. Very impressive!
(04-24-2014, 08:49 AM)bullgoose Wrote: Actually the white and brown horse are both 35/65. I have no idea where people got the idea the white is 50/50. The dyed/bleached horse is 50/50 but all of the natural horse has a 35/65 ratio.

39 1,894
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:05 AM
#9
User Info
It will be fun to try this out. One thing I know for certain, it's a beauty!

19 881
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:20 AM
#10
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
User Info
(04-24-2014, 09:03 AM)branford Wrote:
(04-24-2014, 08:49 AM)bullgoose Wrote: Actually the white and brown horse are both 35/65. I have no idea where people got the idea the white is 50/50. The dyed/bleached horse is 50/50 but all of the natural horse has a 35/65 ratio.

At Gifts & Care, unquestionably the largest Vie Long dealer with a close relationship like yourself with the manufacturer, all the White and dyed horse hair brushes are 50/50 mane/tail and all the Brown are 35/65. The product descriptions are quite clear. The assumption was that this was standard for Vie Long horse hair brushes.

Did you order custom brushes that differ from this purported standard or is the assumption entirely incorrect?

I will not speculate on the brushes at Gifts and Care but will share what Oscar (the manufacturer) said in the article on horsehair brushes:

(04-01-2014, 06:14 PM)Vie-Long Wrote: The quality of the 3 colors is the same, with the same backbone and softness. We mix the hair of mane and tail to get the quality that we need for the production of our Vie-Long horse hair brushes. The percentage is around 35% mane and 65% tail but it is not always used in the exact same percentage in every production - it depends on the raw material received each time.

When I saw people posting about the white horsehair brush claiming that it had a 50/50 mix, I wrote to Oscar for clarification. He restated what he said in the article, that all of the Natural horsehair brushes are generally a 35/65 mix and the Lord Randal horsehair brushes are definitely a 35/65 mix.

35/65 is the standard. Perhaps the 50/50 is a custom knot.

46 18,625
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:38 AM
#11
User Info
@Phil: While I'm in no way implying any deceit by you or Vie Long, the lawyer in me finds Oscar's statement a little unclear. I would assume that it is likely the result of a language barrier or simple miscommunication.

No one is doubting the basic "quality" of any of the horse hair variations. The mane/tail ratio, however, appears to depend on the quality needed for a given production (and is varied and approximated). This could explain a different ratio for the White and Brown.

I know I'm not the only one who assumed that the White was 50/50 and the Brown 35/65. As this difference could greatly impact whether someone chooses to purchase a brush, and if so, which brush, I would humbly suggest a further clarification from Vie Long, particularly since your information is markedly different from another reputable vendor that is closely associated with the company (and provides the information in the item descriptions on its retail website).

0 386
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:39 AM
#12
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
User Info
(04-24-2014, 09:38 AM)branford Wrote: @Phil: While I'm in no way implying any deceit by you or Vie Long, the lawyer in me finds Oscar's statement a little unclear. I would assume that it is likely the result of a language barrier or simple miscommunication.

No one is doubting the basic "quality" of any of the horse hair variations. The mane/tail ratio, however, appears to depend on the quality needed for a given production (and is varied and approximated). This could explain a different ratio for the White and Brown.

I know I'm not the only one who assumed that the White was 50/50 and the Brown 35/65. As this difference could greatly impact whether someone chooses to purchase a brush, and if so, which brush, I would humbly suggest a further clarification from Vie Long, particularly since your information is markedly different from another reputable vendor that is closely associated with the company (and provides the information in the item descriptions on its retail website).

I asked Oscar a direct question and got a direct answer. 35/65. Oscar never intimated that the White was 50/50 however the dyed horse was a 50/50 mix and he communicated that to me when I used to carry them.

Again -I will not speculate on what knots Gifts and Care has -just what I have and what is standard.

46 18,625
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:52 AM
#13
User Info
(04-24-2014, 09:39 AM)bullgoose Wrote:
(04-24-2014, 09:38 AM)branford Wrote: @Phil: While I'm in no way implying any deceit by you or Vie Long, the lawyer in me finds Oscar's statement a little unclear. I would assume that it is likely the result of a language barrier or simple miscommunication.

No one is doubting the basic "quality" of any of the horse hair variations. The mane/tail ratio, however, appears to depend on the quality needed for a given production (and is varied and approximated). This could explain a different ratio for the White and Brown.

I know I'm not the only one who assumed that the White was 50/50 and the Brown 35/65. As this difference could greatly impact whether someone chooses to purchase a brush, and if so, which brush, I would humbly suggest a further clarification from Vie Long, particularly since your information is markedly different from another reputable vendor that is closely associated with the company (and provides the information in the item descriptions on its retail website).

I asked Oscar a direct question and got a direct answer. 35/65. Oscar never intimated that the White was 50/50 however the dyed horse was a 50/50 mix and he communicated that to me when I used to carry them.

Again -I will not speculate on what knots Gifts and Care has -just what I have and what is standard.

Phil, to be clear, I was not negatively comparing you to Gifts & Care nor implying any malfeasance. I was simply citing G&C as a source of confusion for the hair ratios.

On a related matter, do you feel any demonstrable difference in softness between the White and Brown brushes?

0 386
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:55 AM
#14
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
User Info
Maybe it is G&C that needs to get updated with Oscar.

179 23,935
Reply
 04-24-2014, 09:57 AM
#15
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
User Info
No worries Steve -there is definitely a lot of confusion regarding these brushes.

46 18,625
Reply
 04-24-2014, 10:01 AM
#16
User Info
(04-24-2014, 09:55 AM)Johnny Wrote: Maybe it is G&C that needs to get updated with Oscar.

That is most certainly a possibility.

I just do not like it when two trusted and reputable (and TSN-affiliated) vendors have very different information about an entire range of products.

0 386
Reply
 04-24-2014, 12:10 PM
#17
User Info
I've wanted to try Vie-Long horse hair for years, but didn't like any of the handles. When I saw the Lord Randal handle I knew it was the time to try horse hair.

I chose the white horse hair solely because I like the way it looks better than the brown. As of today I have exactly one shave with it and I already know I like this brush.

The brush has a nice balance of softness, scrub and backbone. It has a very subtle scritch to it, but is not prickly. Without any pressure the knot naturally gives the right amount of splay. To me it somewhat resembles a boar knot that is well broken in.

I don't know if horse hair breaks in like boar or improves after a certain number of shaves. If this brush improves it's an added bonus, because this knot is already excellent the way it is right now.

50 6,428
Reply
 04-24-2014, 01:13 PM
#18
User Info
(04-24-2014, 12:10 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: I've wanted to try Vie-Long horse hair for years, but didn't like any of the handles. When I saw the Lord Randal handle I knew it was the time to try horse hair.

I chose the white horse hair solely because I like the way it looks better than the brown. As of today I have exactly one shave with it and I already know I like this brush.

The brush has a nice balance of softness, scrub and backbone. It has a very subtle scritch to it, but is not prickly. Without any pressure the knot naturally gives the right amount of splay. To me it somewhat resembles a boar knot that is well broken in.

I don't know if horse hair breaks in like boar or improves after a certain number of shaves. If this brush improves it's an added bonus, because this knot is already excellent the way it is right now.

A horse hair brush will break-in slightly, but not nearly the amount of a comparable boar.

0 386
Reply
 04-24-2014, 01:39 PM
#19
User Info
I have just one horse; a Vie-Long 1307B 50% mane/50% tail, 23x53mm (as measured) unbleached blond, olivewood handle (don't blame me for the % of hair, that's what I found on-line before buying the brush [so it's not my data- I'm just the messenger]).

Anyway, I bought it off of the b/s/t just to fill an experience gap. It was used when I bought it with an unknown amount of use. It has scritch, but nothing even remotely similar to the pin prick sort of scratch of a pure badger. IMO it certainly is nothing like a Best badger or even a boar. No comparison to Best badger IMO unless the Best borders on pure. I have no Best Badger that's even remotely like horse in feel.

FWIW, the horse is getting a bit better. Maybe when I'm in my 80s it'll approach Best badger in feel, but I doubt it.

Does that make it bad? No. It makes it different. It stays in my rotation, and I applaud the difference it brings to my shave every 30 days or so. Do I want any more horse brushes? Probably not. But I have no doubt that some folks will like them a lot.

I dislike comparing different fibers to another type, but it's all we have to work with. Horse is definitely different. If possible, folks should try one, but if you hate backbone and scritch (but a different feel of scritch from badger IMO) it's not for you.

32 6,471
Reply
 04-24-2014, 01:46 PM
#20
  • W.S.O.
  • Banned
  • Philadelphia, Pa
User Info
(04-24-2014, 12:10 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: The brush has a nice balance of softness, scrub and backbone. It has a very subtle scritch to it, but is not prickly. Without any pressure the knot naturally gives the right amount of splay.

This is an excellent description of the brush. It is one of the few brushes that I have gotten, used, and immediately knew that I liked it and it would be good no matter how I chose to use it. Bowl lather, face lather,whatever.

9 429
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)