04-25-2014, 06:40 PM
#1
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[Image: iL0ccC6.jpg]

While these fibres feel similar on an individual level, the construction of these knots is extremely different.

First, there is much more loft and density on the Plisson. While the ecotools feels soft it is also feels like a wall when I press it to my face dry. I hope it is softer when wet.

[Image: t4mEavK.jpg]

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The density is definitely greater on the Plisson.

The ecotools appears to use two different lengths and colors of fibres. The backbone of the brush is made up of the more numerous and shorter brown fibres while the longer white fibres will make skin contact first. It is a interesting design which I can understand as a makeup brush (that is what this is isn't it), but I'm not sure how this will transfer over to face lathering. It reminds me of the horribly executed 3-D brush from HIS, just not as drastic. Again, it will all come down to how this brush performs wet. I'll try to do some test lathers tonight but we have a lot left to do getting ready for a garage sale in the morning.

[Image: MAY5mZw.jpg]

When wet the brush resembles a porcupine!

[Image: wqmEtm5.jpg]

I hope my pictures have captured what I am trying to explain.

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 04-25-2014, 06:48 PM
#2
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(04-25-2014, 06:40 PM)SharpSpine Wrote: First, there is much more loft and density on the Plisson. While the ecotools feels soft it is also feels like a wall when I press it to my face dry. I hope it is softer when wet.

The density is definitely greater on the Plisson.

The ecotools appears to use two different lengths and colors of fibres. The backbone of the brush is made up of the more numerous and shorter brown fibres while the longer white fibres will make skin contact first. It is a interesting design which I can understand as a makeup brush (that is what this is isn't it), but I'm not sure how this will transfer over to face lathering. It reminds me of the horribly executed 3-D brush from HIS, just not as drastic. Again, it will all come down to how this brush performs wet. I'll try to do some test lathers tonight but we have a lot left to do getting ready for a garage sale in the morning.

When wet the brush resembles a porcupine!

[Image: wqmEtm5.jpg]

I hope my pictures have captured what I am trying to explain.[/align]

Your pictures do a fine job of explaining. I have tried the Eco-tools brush as well and will be interested in your views on it.

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 04-25-2014, 06:54 PM
#3
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Thanks Gary. Do you know if these fibres are the same?

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 04-25-2014, 07:15 PM
#4
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(04-25-2014, 06:54 PM)SharpSpine Wrote: Thanks Gary. Do you know if these fibres are the same?

My best guess is that the fibers for the Plisson are nylon and the Ecotools is Taklon (polyester). When I take my fingers and rub a small clump of the fibers near the base, the mass of fibers have a different feel to them. To me the Ecotools fibers feel slicker to the side swipe that the Plisson fibers which seem slightly rougher.

Another comparison was to take the Ecotools when dry and bind up the fibers between my thumb and index finger to get a tighter bundle. When I roll the brush in that configuration across my face I get a more pillow or velvet like feeling (more like a Gen 4) where as the Plisson when bound in the same manner still had some individuality to the tips which denotes a Gen 3 fiber configuration.

I was answering a similar question on another forum and my main point was that Kabuki brushes, although near cousins to the Shaving brush, are hard to correlate on a 1 to 1 basis simply because of the fact that the lofts are radically different and the densities vary so much from each of the Kabuki brushes. From what I have looked at during my researching of synthetics, Kabuki brushes seem to have wider variations between each other than Shaving brushes. The target market is larger and the requirements seem to have a wider latitude based on the application of powder (Kabuki) versus cream (Shaving). The Shaving brush knot would have to have greater strength to support the weight and volume of lather and the harder strokes given for application as compared to many Kabuki brushes which is applying lighter powder.

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 04-25-2014, 07:31 PM
#5
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Wow, that is a unique brush! Best of luck, Brian! Smile

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 04-25-2014, 07:53 PM
#6
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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The Ecotools brush looks like it lost a battle with the hair trimmer ... Confused

Interesting read, Brian ... I look forward to hearing more.

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 04-25-2014, 08:46 PM
#7
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A couple palm test lathers complete. First one I left too much water in the brush; 2nd one was much more to my liking.

It's clear that this brush can produce high quality lather. My concerns for tomorrow's shave are down to 2:

1. How will the wall of brown fibres feel on my face?

2. How much lather can this short-lofted, small knot actually hold? Will it be enough for my 2 1/2 passes?

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 04-25-2014, 09:03 PM
#8
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Very strange looking brush!

I look forward to reading more.

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 04-26-2014, 04:04 AM
#9
  • Elendil
  • Raggedy man, good night
  • The snow's back.
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Isn't the EcoTools intended to be a make up brush?

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 04-26-2014, 04:21 AM
#10
  • tdmsu
  • Banned
  • Metro Detroit
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That Ecotools brush look like it needs to be restored. That loft is really off-putting to me.

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 04-26-2014, 04:48 AM
#11
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What could possibly be the reason for designing such an ugly knot, even for a make up brush?

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 04-26-2014, 05:22 AM
#12
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(04-26-2014, 04:04 AM)Elendil Wrote: Isn't the EcoTools intended to be a make up brush?

Yes, it is a Kabuki brush designed for make up (powder) applications.

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 04-26-2014, 06:21 AM
#13
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One of these Ecotools brushes was my first brush. Whips up lather really well, but doesn't hold much. It was fine for bowl lathering, though; I could just leave most of the lather in the bowl. I've since PIF'd it, but not a bad brush at all.

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 04-26-2014, 06:29 AM
#14
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From my SOTD today...

Not super enjoyable but effective. This is the brush people should use if they just refuse to enjoy their shave.

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 04-26-2014, 07:09 AM
#15
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Well your viewpoint is how I viewed the Ecotools. I did not want to give any more away until you had used it.

I really have a hard time determining whether is is a Gen 3 or Gen 4 because there is not enough fiber to compare to shaving brushes in use. Wadded up it feels like Gen 4 but in real use it feels like a Gen 3. A very confusing item to place because there is just not enough of it to get a clear reading.

My response to a person on another forum was:

Quote:... there are too many companies making Kabuki brushes to keep track of much less to incorporate into the rating system. A Kabuki brush rarely translates 1 to 1 with a shaving brush since the purpose is different. The handles, lofts, density, and flair have huge variants from what is normally used in by most Traditional Shavers. There is no issue from my point of view if people use and enjoy EcoTools brushes for shaving. I have used one an found it too sparse for my liking.

Michael Ham a.k.a. LeisureGuy has championed this brush and it has many satisfied users so it truly fits into the YMMV category. I have been down that road as well so I understand the YMMV issue all too well.

A forum member at B&B who goes by the name of Loric did an extensive survey of Kabuki brushes and had Rudy Vey do some modifications and handle upgrades of those knots that he really liked. Some of the Kabuki brushes are made by FMT (maker of the original 28 mm H.I.S. shaving brush which is a converted Kabuki brush with no changes). The only thing about most Kabuki brushes are the short lofts but they are available and some (key word is some) can be modified to meet shaving requirements.

Thanks for the review.

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 04-26-2014, 07:21 AM
#16
  • W.S.O.
  • Banned
  • Philadelphia, Pa
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Thank you for doing this. I recently picked up several inexpensive Kabuki brushes off of ebay to do a little experimenting myself. I think your thorough review may have cut right to what the outcome may be for me as well. I am still going to mess around with them in several ways upon their arrival.

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 04-26-2014, 07:59 AM
#17
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Brian, good of you to attempt it and thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.

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 04-26-2014, 10:55 AM
#18
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Interesting. I like the comparison to lathering with a Q-tip.

Thanks for taking the hit for the forum.

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 04-26-2014, 03:31 PM
#19
  • Elendil
  • Raggedy man, good night
  • The snow's back.
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(04-26-2014, 10:55 AM)ShadowsDad Wrote: Interesting. I like the comparison to lathering with a Q-tip.

Thanks for taking the hit for the forum.

Indeed. If there were a way to give you a jar of MdC out of petty cash, I'd be all for it.

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 04-26-2014, 03:35 PM
#20
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Speaking of makeup brushes used for shaving, I know many such brushes use goat hair.

I'm curious if there were ever any mainstream goat brushes, and if so, how they performed?

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