08-26-2014, 04:42 AM
#1
User Info
Gents,
Do anyone has experience with plisson HMW 14 ? How's the brush overall? I am looking for good backbone and not too floppy.

Some compare high mountain white to simpson munchurian . I am not expert in this so any feedback will be greatly appreciated.[Image: Wy9vjNF.jpg]

I just have a craving for plisson HMW.

Thanks

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 08-26-2014, 05:44 AM
#2
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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I have the 2 band HMW, but in size 12 (same knot size, but shorter loft 55mm vs 59mm). The hair type is similar to Manchurian as the individual hairs are thicker more resilient, but the face feel of the 2 band is that of a lighter scritch/scrub feel while the Manchurian is a gentle scrub feel on all of the ones that I have. The tips are indeed soft as they all curl when left to dry and is very soft to the touch when dry. Its wet feel on the face is where the light scrub/scritch come in.

Density of the knot isn't as high as the Manchurian but their design is equally effective in flow through. The hair is strong enough to maintain its shape while loaded with lather and doing the circular lathering motions with moderate pressure. I don't think I would consider them too similar to one another other than backbone strength and both being the flagship for each respective company.

I like mine very much, it offers a face feel that isn't too harsh, but provides a lot of backbone and is different from the rest of the rotation

as for 3 banded HMW, our other members have that one and from what I've read is a slightly different feel

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 08-26-2014, 06:07 AM
#3
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Great feedback. Actually I am considering two band and not 3 band. Your feedback is perfect.

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 08-26-2014, 06:23 AM
#4
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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They have 2 band available? I haven't seen it on the main Plisson for a while if I remember correctly.

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 08-26-2014, 03:22 PM
#5
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I read somewhere the large ones have two band.

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 08-26-2014, 04:27 PM
#6
  • TheMonk
  • Super Moderator
  • Porto, Portugal
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It is my understanding that 2-band Plisson HWM brushes are generally custom made, only for their usual customers and if they have stock of that particular hair, which seems to be rarer nowadays.
This evidently doesn't mean one sometimes can't get lucky, and find one "in the wild". Biggrin

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 08-26-2014, 05:35 PM
#7
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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The brush is pre 2005 I imagine...

Plisson HMW hair is similar to Simpson Manchurian in that the individual fibres are very strong. Their rigidity provides feedback against the face. Both grades are impacted by batch in terms of tip softness. Where they differ greatest is in terms of knot construction. Simpson Manchurian is denser and shorter lofted. The result is a less yielding knot and a greater feeling of backbone as a whole. The Plisson HMW is less dense and taller lofted. It splays extremely well and has excellent flow through. Circular motions get the best out of the Plisson brush, while the denser Simpson (especially Chubby models) responds better to paint brush style strokes.

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 08-26-2014, 06:17 PM
#8
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Thanks for your great feedback refles & Ben. Great!!!

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 08-27-2014, 05:26 AM
#9
  • pc4406
  • Vintage Shearer
  • San Francisco
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Ben,

What is the difference with post 2005 hair? What changed then?

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 08-27-2014, 06:12 AM
#10
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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Post 2005 batch variations noticeably resulted in a different feel and to a lesser degree appearance. Plisson HMW and even more reportedly, the "whitecap" Shavemac brushes, were both consistently praised as outstanding prior to 2005 and then it became somewhat hit and miss at times according to consumers, due to different hairs being sourced. I think all manufacturers experience batch variation and sourcing issues. A more current example is Simpsons 2 band, aka SilverTip. A few years ago it was not consistently as soft tipped as it is now. Secondhand Plisson and Shavemac brushes will often be listed as pre 2005 to attract buyers attention as its an assurance of some of the more desirable brushes made by these manufacturers. It is well known that Bernd (Shavemac) changed the silver tip he was using in 2005 (and by all accounts the change wasn't much cared for at the time). It's not unlike Rooney "Finest" and Rooney Heritage "gel tip" in that the original batches of these hairs grades from years ago are considered by many as preferable to current versions. IMO it isn't necessarily that performance is improved, more that characteristics of a particular hair batch were praised highly for their specific qualities making them more sought after.

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 08-27-2014, 06:52 AM
#11
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Agreed with Ben Assessment and i was told the same from the seller. Here is the pre-2005 shave mac 167 D001 Extra silvertip , 2 band.





(08-27-2014, 06:12 AM)ben74 Wrote: Post 2005 batch variations noticeably resulted in a different feel and to a lesser degree appearance. Plisson HMW and even more reportedly, the "whitecap" Shavemac brushes, were both consistently praised as outstanding prior to 2005 and then it became somewhat hit and miss at times according to consumers, due to different hairs being sourced. I think all manufacturers experience batch variation and sourcing issues. A more current example is Simpsons 2 band, aka SilverTip. A few years ago it was not consistently as soft tipped as it is now. Secondhand Plisson and Shavemac brushes will often be listed as pre 2005 to attract buyers attention as its an assurance of some of the more desirable brushes made by these manufacturers. It is well known that Bernd (Shavemac) changed the silver tip he was using in 2005 (and by all accounts the change wasn't much cared for at the time). It's not unlike Rooney "Finest" and Rooney Heritage "gel tip" in that the original batches of these hairs grades from years ago are considered by many as preferable to current versions. IMO it isn't necessarily that performance is improved, more that characteristics of a particular hair batch were praised highly for their specific qualities making them more sought after.

I will post the picture in brushes section now





(08-27-2014, 06:12 AM)ben74 Wrote: Post 2005 batch variations noticeably resulted in a different feel and to a lesser degree appearance. Plisson HMW and even more reportedly, the "whitecap" Shavemac brushes, were both consistently praised as outstanding prior to 2005 and then it became somewhat hit and miss at times according to consumers, due to different hairs being sourced. I think all manufacturers experience batch variation and sourcing issues. A more current example is Simpsons 2 band, aka SilverTip. A few years ago it was not consistently as soft tipped as it is now. Secondhand Plisson and Shavemac brushes will often be listed as pre 2005 to attract buyers attention as its an assurance of some of the more desirable brushes made by these manufacturers. It is well known that Bernd (Shavemac) changed the silver tip he was using in 2005 (and by all accounts the change wasn't much cared for at the time). It's not unlike Rooney "Finest" and Rooney Heritage "gel tip" in that the original batches of these hairs grades from years ago are considered by many as preferable to current versions. IMO it isn't necessarily that performance is improved, more that characteristics of a particular hair batch were praised highly for their specific qualities making them more sought after.
[/quote]

[Image: w4KsQ21.jpg]

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 08-27-2014, 07:33 AM
#12
  • pc4406
  • Vintage Shearer
  • San Francisco
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Clear and articulate explanation, as usual. Thanks.

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 08-27-2014, 05:34 PM
#13
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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Very very informative, I've learned something about my own brush I did't know. I feel luckier to have it now. Informative tread.. thank Ben for enlightening us (me) Lightbulb

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 08-27-2014, 05:36 PM
#14
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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(08-27-2014, 05:34 PM)refles Wrote: Very very informative, I've learned something about my own brush I did't know. I feel luckier to have it now. Informative tread.. thank Ben for enlightening us (me) Lightbulb

Always happy to help.

A Shavemac or Plisson?

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 08-27-2014, 05:38 PM
#15
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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I've got a Plisson, size 12 2band I got a while back and always and wondered about it.. but not very many ppl knew.. Seeing your collection if figures you would have the knowledge behind it Smile

gotta dig up a picture and I'll show you..

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 08-27-2014, 05:48 PM
#16
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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(08-27-2014, 05:38 PM)refles Wrote: I've got a Plisson, size 12 2band I got a while back and always and wondered about it.. but not very many ppl knew.. Seeing your collection if figures you would have the knowledge behind it Smile

gotta dig up a picture and I'll show you..

Yes, I'd love to see it.

IMO, since 2005, it has been more important to view individual Plisson brushes first, rather than buying blindly....

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 08-27-2014, 06:33 PM
#17
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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Here she is.. for some reason can only find a bloom shot, may need to take it out tomorrow to take a few dry 'at rest' shots.
When dry the tips are very very soft, as you can see the individual hairs fairly thick. But any additional info is always most welcome.
[Image: myG8Zmx.jpg]

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 08-27-2014, 08:32 PM
#18
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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Beautiful, I can see immediately why you enjoy it so much!

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 08-27-2014, 10:09 PM
#19
  • grantmm
  • Friend of the Badgers
  • Draper, Utah
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That looks very much like my 2-band HMW. Only difference is that yours is more of a bulb while mine has more of a point in the middle of the bulb.

Lovely brush Smile Depending on the soap used it has very different face feel. I need to use it more often or find a home for it that will.

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 08-28-2014, 06:36 AM
#20
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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Thanks Ben!

Grant, that's something I never thought of. But now that you mention it as the scritch sometimes isn't as present depending on how thick the lather I make it and a faint scrub shows up when I'm using it. Given that I've only keep 3 soaps on rotation at a time that may be why it never really hit me with that uniqueness.. DUH.. thanks for that idea!! Will definitely give it some notice and attention now.

Knowledge sharing at its best!

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