11-03-2014, 06:26 AM
#1
  • JLee83
  • Junior Member
  • Arizona
User Info
I am in search of the instruction booklet for the Gillette "Red Dot" adjustable razor. If you have instructions for a 195 Adjustable "Fatboy", could you check to see if they show the red dot indicator instead of the red clicker indicator for me !? You may not even know you have it ! lol Any information you guys have on the production of this razor would be helpful. Do you know of any advertisements showing it or anything else ?
[Image: GEswcIt.jpg][Image: k2fsudh.jpg][Image: lOCT6UE.jpg][Image: SnLRCVR.jpg][Image: q3DTm4J.jpg][Image: SgpUNiP.jpg]

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 11-03-2014, 08:37 AM
#2
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If the pics are of your personal red dot, you my friend are a very lucky person IMO. I'm invious.A47
The red dot was an early & limited(unknown amount)release of what would later become the fatboy or 195. The base plate adjustment mechanism is of a different design. It was re-designed due to manufactuing costs.

To asnswer your request I'm sorry to say I don't have any paperwork for a red dot.

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 11-03-2014, 09:40 AM
#3
  • JLee83
  • Junior Member
  • Arizona
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Yes sir, this one is mine. All the pictures are ones I took. Thanks for the info Smile

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 11-03-2014, 06:47 PM
#4
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Your welcome.

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 11-03-2014, 07:05 PM
#5
  • Giorgio
  • Senior Member
  • Pennsylvania, US
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You might try contacting Matt from Razor Emporium. I know he has a ton of resources for vintage razors (not to mention he is extremely knowledgeable himself). I've had a few razors replated there, and he actually talked me out of replating another and just cleaned it up for me because apparently it was still in good condition, but during the course of all that I found him to be a wealth of knowledge in the conversations we had. Even if he doesn't have the instructions, I still think someone like him would be a help. And he's very friendly and always willing to help fellow enthusiasts...a great asset to the community IMO.

BTW...GORGEOUS Red Dot Biggrin!

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 11-03-2014, 08:30 PM
#6
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My goodness, those are beautifully crisp photos!

Lovely razor, by the way, and I hope you find what you are inquiring about. Biggrin

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 11-04-2014, 04:20 AM
#7
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(11-03-2014, 07:05 PM)Giorgio Wrote: You might try contacting Matt from Razor Emporium. I know he has a ton of resources for vintage razors (not to mention he is extremely knowledgeable himself). I've had a few razors replated there, and he actually talked me out of replating another and just cleaned it up for me because apparently it was still in good condition, but during the course of all that I found him to be a wealth of knowledge in the conversations we had. Even if he doesn't have the instructions, I still think someone like him would be a help. And he's very friendly and always willing to help fellow enthusiasts...a great asset to the community IMO.

BTW...GORGEOUS Red Dot Biggrin!

Thank you for the kind remarks! I wish I had an extra set! I do have a cases red dot - I'll look when I get to the office to see if it has instructions! If nothing else we can scan them Smile

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 11-05-2014, 08:05 AM
#8
  • JLee83
  • Junior Member
  • Arizona
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(11-04-2014, 04:20 AM)Razor Emporium Wrote:
(11-03-2014, 07:05 PM)Giorgio Wrote: You might try contacting Matt from Razor Emporium. I know he has a ton of resources for vintage razors (not to mention he is extremely knowledgeable himself). I've had a few razors replated there, and he actually talked me out of replating another and just cleaned it up for me because apparently it was still in good condition, but during the course of all that I found him to be a wealth of knowledge in the conversations we had. Even if he doesn't have the instructions, I still think someone like him would be a help. And he's very friendly and always willing to help fellow enthusiasts...a great asset to the community IMO.

BTW...GORGEOUS Red Dot Biggrin!

Thank you for the kind remarks! I wish I had an extra set! I do have a cases red dot - I'll look when I get to the office to see if it has instructions! If nothing else we can scan them Smile

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for all your help guys ! I appreciate it !! Here is a little info that just surfaced not too long ago. [Image: qWIdxib.jpg]

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 11-06-2014, 03:58 PM
#9
  • Mouser
  • Senior Member
  • Forest City, Florida U.S.A.
User Info
Besides the cosmetic difference of the Dot, are there any differences in performance or settings?

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 11-06-2014, 04:43 PM
#10
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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The Red Dot has very different mechanics. Apart from looks, they are quite dissimilar. The Red Dot raises and lowers the bottom plate, while a regular Fat Boy pushes the base against the top plate to increase/decrease the blade gap. The Red Dot doesn't put as much tension on the blade, so the shaves are really pretty different. My understanding is that the Red Dot was more expensive to make, so Gillette phased out the design in favor of the cheaper Fat Boy design.

The Red Dot adjustment mechanism is actually identical to the Toggle, which seem to be much easier to find, if you're looking for a way to check one out.

Neither is going to come cheap. :-D

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 11-08-2014, 10:36 AM
#11
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I don't understand the distinction between raising and lowering the bottom plate vs. pushing the base against the top plate. (I believe there is one, I just don't get it from your description).

And if I read you right, you've opined that the added tension on the blade is what makes a slant perform better/differently. So it is fair to say that the regular Fat Boy, because it puts "more tension on the blade", might actually shave better?

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 11-08-2014, 10:55 AM
#12
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Thank you for the photo's they explain perfectly the difference between a regular Fatboy and the rare red dot.
I did wonder if there was more than just a red dot painted on the razorHmm

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 11-08-2014, 11:02 AM
#13
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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(11-08-2014, 10:36 AM)wagstaff Wrote: I don't understand the distinction between raising and lowering the bottom plate vs. pushing the base against the top plate. (I believe there is one, I just don't get it from your description).

And if I read you right, you've opined that the added tension on the blade is what makes a slant perform better/differently. So it is fair to say that the regular Fat Boy, because it puts "more tension on the blade", might actually shave better?

I don't blame you for not understanding my description. It's something that makes a whole lot more sense when you see it.

I don't have a Red Dot (except for in my dreams) but I do have a Toggle. I will try to take some pictures and annotate them, so you can get a visual. Once you see what I'm talking about, a lightbulb will go off, and you'll understand exactly what I mean. It's really very easy to understand, just really difficult to put into words. I think once you see what I mean, it will answer your other question on blade tension as well.

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 11-08-2014, 11:20 AM
#14
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Thanks, Craig. I look forward to the lightbulb experience. (Something you provide with some regularity, so I trust I'll have it again!)

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 11-08-2014, 07:10 PM
#15
  • Mouser
  • Senior Member
  • Forest City, Florida U.S.A.
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(11-08-2014, 11:20 AM)wagstaff Wrote: Thanks, Craig. I look forward to the lightbulb experience. (Something you provide with some regularity, so I trust I'll have it again!)

Power company shut down my light bulb in 1979.

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 11-09-2014, 02:15 PM
#16
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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OK, I took some photos, and I think this might make it a little clearer. Then again, maybe not. :-)

[Image: 119fc7152a0a2816051c53549de09f99_zpsd5c59e50.jpg]
[Image: 40cf33767af99b9e7ad38e51ab804891_zpsb1bb0b85.jpg]

What I tried to do here is color code the different parts.

The parts in yellow are the parts that move with the TTO mechanism. That includes the doors, the endcaps, and the center rod. These parts are pretty much the same between the two razors.

The parts in red are the parts that are fixed to the handle. They do not move at all relative to the handle. You can see that the entire baseplate of the Fat Boy is in red, while for the Toggle, the center plate on which the blade sits is the only fixed part.

The parts in green are the parts that move when the dial is twisted. For the Toggle, the entire base plate, including the safety bars, moves with the adjuster. By contrast, on the Fat Boy, only those little lifter bars move.

As similar as the two mechanisms appear to the naked eye, the color-coding should make it clear that they are very different. The operate on completely different mechanical principles. The effect this has on their operation is pretty significant. The Toggle lifts the whole bastplate up and down, which only increases and decreases the gap. The blade does not move when adjusting, because it's sitting on a fixed plate. The Fat Boy, on the other hand, does NOT move the baseplate at all, and the blade does not sit on the baseplate, but rather on the lifter bars. The lifter bars push against the blade and the doors, which cause the entire yellow part of the razor to move, as well as the green part, which puts tension on the blade and the doors. The net effect of all this is that on the Fat Boy, the blade gap is increased by the doors moving up, while on the Toggle, the blade gap is increased by the doors remaining in place and the baseplate being adjusted down. That's what I meant by saying that the action of the two is almost opposite.

The other significant result of this difference is that the on the Fat Boy, the adjustment knob works against the tension of the spring, which is pulling downwards on the rod/door mechanism. That's why adjusting from 1 up to 9 on a Fay Boy while the doors are closed is difficult, and possibly damaging to the adjuster threads. I believe the Fat Boy literature advised never to adjust the mechanism with the doors closed. I also believe it's beneficial to adjust the Fat Boy down to a 1 when not in use, so as to relieve tension on the spring. On the Toggle, there is no tension in the adjustment mechanism. You can adjust from 1-9 and 9-1 while the doors are closed, and there is no difference how hard you have to turn the knob. I don't think adjusting the Toggle while the doors are closed would have any negative effect on the razor, because you're not adjusting against tension of the spring. The baseplate freely adjusts up and down, and the only thing changing on the whole razor is the gap between the doors and the safety bar.

So hopefully, that explanation makes it a little more clear. Like I said above, the mechanism on the Red Dot is identical to the Toggle, except that the Red Dot uses a screw mechanism to push the rod up and down, instead of a lever.

The wild card in all this is the nickel Toggle, which was Gillette's first adjustable design. From the pictures I've seen, it looks to have a different mechanism that either of these, but I don't have a large enough income to own one. If anyone would like to donate theirs to a good cause, I could figure it out. :-D

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 11-09-2014, 06:46 PM
#17
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Great explanation and great color-coding. You did all that to answer my question? I feel guilty giving you the assignment (however inadvertently).

I assume that paint job was done on the computer, not the razors. However it was done, it does show me what you were talking about. I didn't picture the "lifter bars" separate from the baseplate just based on your prior post. Now I see. Thanks tons. Nice toggle you got there, too!

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 11-09-2014, 06:50 PM
#18
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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Yeah, it was a Photoshop job, although painting them might have been easier. :-D

Glad to help. I spent some time answering because this was a question I had before I was lucky to get a nice score on the Toggle. That, and I was amazed by how different the two mechanisms were, because the look nearly identical.

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 11-09-2014, 06:54 PM
#19
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So paint all of your adjustables, now. The more garish, the better. Then you won't have to mess with photoshop any more!

Anyway yes the pictures do illustrate what you were trying to say very well; and they prompted you to say it better, too. Thanks tons, again. It really was above and beyond.

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 11-09-2014, 07:03 PM
#20
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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I continue to be utterly and completely fascinated by how much ingenuity went into the design of these razors. Not only from the standpoint of making it work, but also designing the manufacturing process so that these things could be cranked out cheaply, reliably, by the millions, and be manufactured with such quality that most of them that weren't thrown away are still just as useable today as they were a half century ago.

Of course, this was the same generation that put a man on the moon inside of a decade, with far less computational power, literally, than the phone I'm using to type this message. They set the bar pretty high.

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