02-23-2015, 04:46 PM
#1
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I have shaved many times with a Muhle R41 2013 and a Fatip/Joris razor. I feel that the Fatip is more aggressive than the R41 while being smoother also. I would welcome other opinions on this. 

If you have shaved with both of these razors, what do you think?  Which is the most aggressive? 

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 02-24-2015, 04:54 AM
#2
  • dcc
  • Polsilver Vendor
  • EU
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R41 by far

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 02-24-2015, 08:20 AM
#3
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(02-24-2015, 04:54 AM)dcc Wrote: R41 by far

Can you get a smooth shave with the R41?  I always feel like it is tugging and pulling the hairs out.

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 02-24-2015, 08:30 AM
#4
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(02-24-2015, 08:20 AM)shave/brush Wrote:
(02-24-2015, 04:54 AM)dcc Wrote: R41 by far

Can you get a smooth shave with the R41?  I always feel like it is tugging and pulling the hairs out.

The short answer is: yes.
The longer answer is that when shaving with the R41, your technique, beard/skin prep, blade, lather choice must all be correct to achieve the optimal shave from the R41. Whereas other razors (I cannot speak to the Fattip) may be more forgiving (Feather AS-D2, R89) the R41 will bite you if your game is off. (This is my experience with a moderate beard and lower neck sensitivity, YMMV) If your getting tugging, I would 1) look at the angle with which you are holding your razor 2) Try a smoother blade. (I love the Personna Med Prep, but the Lab Blues are smooth too) 3) Make sure you don't start with an ATG pass. 4) Realize that there is a learning curve with the R41. Practice.
Good Luck. You can do it.  Thumbsup

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 02-24-2015, 09:26 AM
#5
  • vferdman
  • Artisan
  • Western Massachusetts
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I have shaved with 2011 R41, 2013 R41 and FaTip Piccolo. All three aggressive razors, but both Muhle models are way more aggressive than FaTip in my experience. In fact, I could not get a smooth shave from the R41s even though they were aggressive. It was uncomfortable and no BBS in sight. I sold both R41s and still have the FaTip. I don't use it much, but I think it's a great aggressive razor. I also had a Joris once and felt it was a total sham because it was essentially a FaTip, which is an inexpensive machined steel head (not pot metal) with all attributes of inexpensive machining, which are fine for a $30 razor, but Joris just put fancy plating on same heads and charged 5-6 times the price. Joris is a very pretty razor from afar, but examined closely has lots of flaws such as wavy blade, visible center stud in the top cap (they could have put a thicker plating on a $200 razor), blade alignment issues, etc. Again, fine for an unpretentious $30 Piccolo, but for a high end razor it was unacceptable to me. Also, my copy of FaTip performed better than my copy of Joris. Go figure. Sorry for the aside. I think FaTip heads are very good and since they have non-standard thread on the top cap, the handles they come with need to be decent and in a Piccolo I love the handle. It's small, but solid and very grippy. Also, no pot metal on this razor. Both top plate and base plates are solid metal. I use the base plate of my FaTip with a top plate from NOS Hallmark vintage razor I ran into a while ago in the antique store to make a Frankenrazor that takes standard handles (I use Ikon Bulldog) and has slightly less aggressiveness than the original FaTip. Works great and used to be my only razor for close to a year.

[Image: PxW7pxj.jpg]

[Image: AMmQ6CK.jpg]

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 02-24-2015, 09:33 AM
#6
  • Longnecks
  • Junior Member
  • St. Louis, Missouri
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I agree the R41 is more aggressive than a Fatip. I just got a Fatip about 2 weeks ago and shaved 3 times with an Astra SS blade with Stirling's Best Dressed Man soap. very smooth shaves. I really like the R41 but you have to be careful with it. It is a very nice quality razor. The Fatip is also nice to shave with. Preparation is really key with DE shaving.

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 02-24-2015, 11:08 AM
#7
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(02-24-2015, 09:26 AM)vferdman Wrote: I have shaved with 2011 R41, 2013 R41 and FaTip Piccolo. All three aggressive razors, but both Muhle models are way more aggressive than FaTip in my experience. In fact, I could not get a smooth shave from the R41s even though they were aggressive. It was uncomfortable and no BBS in sight. I sold both R41s and still have the FaTip. I don't use it much, but I think it's a great aggressive razor. I also had a Joris once and felt it was a total sham because it was essentially a FaTip, which is an inexpensive machined steel head (not pot metal) with all attributes of inexpensive machining, which are fine for a $30 razor, but Joris just put fancy plating on same heads and charged 5-6 times the price. Joris is a very pretty razor from afar, but examined closely has lots of flaws such as wavy blade, visible center stud in the top cap (they could have put a thicker plating on a $200 razor), blade alignment issues, etc. Again, fine for an unpretentious $30 Piccolo, but for a high end razor it was unacceptable to me. Also, my copy of FaTip performed better than my copy of Joris. Go figure. Sorry for the aside. I think FaTip heads are very good and since they have non-standard thread on the top cap, the handles they come with need to be decent and in a Piccolo I love the handle. It's small, but solid and very grippy. Also, no pot metal on this razor. Both top plate and base plates are solid metal. I use the base plate of my FaTip with a top plate from NOS Hallmark vintage razor I ran into a while ago in the antique store to make a Frankenrazor that takes standard handles (I use Ikon Bulldog) and has slightly less aggressiveness than the original FaTip. Works great and used to be my only razor for close to a year.

Sorry, double input. Error.

So you could not get a smooth shave with a R41 either. That's why I sold mine too.

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 02-24-2015, 11:10 AM
#8
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(02-24-2015, 11:08 AM)shave/brush Wrote:
(02-24-2015, 09:26 AM)vferdman Wrote: I have shaved with 2011 R41, 2013 R41 and FaTip Piccolo. All three aggressive razors, but both Muhle models are way more aggressive than FaTip in my experience. In fact, I could not get a smooth shave from the R41s even though they were aggressive. It was uncomfortable and no BBS in sight. I sold both R41s and still have the FaTip. I don't use it much, but I think it's a great aggressive razor. I also had a Joris once and felt it was a total sham because it was essentially a FaTip, which is an inexpensive machined steel head (not pot metal) with all attributes of inexpensive machining, which are fine for a $30 razor, but Joris just put fancy plating on same heads and charged 5-6 times the price. Joris is a very pretty razor from afar, but examined closely has lots of flaws such as wavy blade, visible center stud in the top cap (they could have put a thicker plating on a $200 razor), blade alignment issues, etc. Again, fine for an unpretentious $30 Piccolo, but for a high end razor it was unacceptable to me. Also, my copy of FaTip performed better than my copy of Joris. Go figure. Sorry for the aside. I think FaTip heads are very good and since they have non-standard thread on the top cap, the handles they come with need to be decent and in a Piccolo I love the handle. It's small, but solid and very grippy. Also, no pot metal on this razor. Both top plate and base plates are solid metal. I use the base plate of my FaTip with a top plate from NOS Hallmark vintage razor I ran into a while ago in the antique store to make a Frankenrazor that takes standard handles (I use Ikon Bulldog) and has slightly less aggressiveness than the original FaTip. Works great and used to be my only razor for close to a year.


So you could not get a smooth shave with a R41 either. That's why I sold mine too.

   Ron

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 02-24-2015, 11:21 AM
#9
  • vferdman
  • Artisan
  • Western Massachusetts
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(02-24-2015, 11:10 AM)shave/brush Wrote: So you could not get a smooth shave with a R41 either. That's why I sold mine too.

   Ron

Ron, the R41 keeps the blade fairly unbent and at a very different angle than most other DE razors. This is why so many people have trouble getting a smooth shave from them. It's a really interesting razor and if it works for an individual, there is nothing quite like it in the DE realm, but for most folks it's a torture device and does not provide a desired smooth shave. I enjoy an aggressive shave and occasionally use a straight, but R41 was way too much trouble for me. FaTip is probably the next most aggressive DE after R41, but has a more conventional geometry of the head and it works great for me.

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 02-24-2015, 03:30 PM
#10
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(02-24-2015, 11:21 AM)vferdman Wrote:
(02-24-2015, 11:10 AM)shave/brush Wrote: So you could not get a smooth shave with a R41 either. That's why I sold mine too.

   Ron

Ron, the R41 keeps the blade fairly unbent and at a very different angle than most other DE razors. This is why so many people have trouble getting a smooth shave from them. It's a really interesting razor and if it works for an individual, there is nothing quite like it in the DE realm, but for most folks it's a torture device and does not provide a desired smooth shave. I enjoy an aggressive shave and occasionally use a straight, but R41 was way too much trouble for me. FaTip is probably the next most aggressive DE after R41, but has a more conventional geometry of the head and it works great for me.

 I think you are exactly right. The fact that the blade is fairly unbent is what makes it so different and as you said, why so many people have trouble getting a smooth shave with them.

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 02-24-2015, 05:30 PM
#11
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The Mühle R41 is a fantastic razor. I can tell by simply looking closely at the razor head with a blade loaded, that almost any angle is possible whilst shaving. This is a really good thing for me, particularly under the nose -- I can attack those stubborn hairs there from many angles.


It does make it a difficult razor to use without facial carnage. My first shave with this razor had me nervous -- I even set my iKon OSS ready to go by the side of the sink just in case....

My FaTip is truly retro -- it looks retro, and it shaves retro. This razor is a throwback in many ways; it's been made the same way for many years, and it's made from solid brass (plated). Really, this is a "no nonsense" razor:  you WILL use zero pressure, or suffer consequences.
Euro

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 02-24-2015, 05:37 PM
#12
  • Deuce
  • Just a guy
  • Cave Creek
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My first OC was a Joris, and boy, did I learn to take my time. It was too soon into my DE learning curve. Once my rookie deal was done, I tried the R 41 and it was very similar to the Joris IMHO. From time to time I tack the Joris for a spin

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 02-25-2015, 08:46 PM
#13
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Both razors are a bit too aggressive for me, but I found the R41 much harsher and probably more aggressive. I don't know how you gentlemen do it as my tender and pampered skin just can't tolerate them very well!  Blush

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 02-26-2015, 06:11 AM
#14
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(02-25-2015, 08:46 PM)celestino Wrote: Both razors are a bit too aggressive for me, but I found the R41 much harsher and probably more aggressive. I don't know how you gentlemen do it as my tender and pampered skin just can't tolerate them very well!  Blush

I agree that the R41 is much harsher. I think some people are confusing harshness with aggression. They are both aggressive but I think the FaTip is smoother and at least as aggressive as the R41.

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 02-26-2015, 11:30 AM
#15
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I shaved with both a few times, the fatip grande and the R41 2013 model.

The R41 stays less manageable and will produce more nicks in my routine.
I think you can make both work

EDIT 03/ 2015:   Great shaves and no nicks with the right blades, the R41 made  Derby blades work for me (I know, Derby blades!)
R 41 recommended


awesome razor, Vferdman.!

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 02-26-2015, 12:04 PM
#16
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I get a much closer longer lasting shave from the muhle R41 but I still alternate every other day with a fatip on a custom handle. I enjoy using both but if I need bbs I go to the muhle R41

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 02-27-2015, 04:05 AM
#17
  • Thug
  • Active Member
  • South Africa
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Wanted to buy an OC and the R41 was my choice. Unfortunately our local supplier doesn't have stock, so I settled on the FaTip Piccolo.

If I'm not happy with the FaTip, I can at least put it back in the box without worrying about the investment.

Should receive it early next week.

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 02-27-2015, 06:50 AM
#18
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A shave with my R41 is like running a gauntlet. It is possible to get from one end to the other, but the question always remains: will you make it unscathed? I love a challenge.  Sisi1

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 03-01-2015, 06:00 PM
#19
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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I find the R41 to be more aggressive. To me, the Joris shaves like a nimble sports car, and I am hesitant to call it aggressive.


Andrew

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 03-02-2015, 06:36 AM
#20
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(03-01-2015, 06:00 PM)Andrew Wrote: I find the R41 to be more aggressive. To me, the Joris shaves like a nimble sports car, and I am hesitant to call it aggressive.


Andrew

The blade exposure on the Joris/Fatip is more than any other razor I've seen, including the R41. I wish someone could measure them both to compare. Very curious about this.

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