03-21-2015, 11:45 PM
#1
User Info
To all who read, skim, skip and view, this is for you!

Too often, within the past 3 - 4 months, there have been a tremendous amount of heated debates, discussions, lies and even hostility on this forum, that i personally respect and love, The Shave Nook.


-(Before i continue, please note, that i welcome any outing or form of negativity that will be placed on me, but honestly, it doesn't matter if I'll be less liked)-

Forward:
In my honest opinion, the ritual and rite of passage involved with shaving, is slowly becoming more of a way of life to most members here, and it is quite irritant to the spirit that i have come to adore on this site. We are grown men, with a few women here, and we are starting to act like radicals when it comes to the difference of opinions, backgrounds, knowledge and duties, when all of what we should be focused on, is continuing the charm of what our moderators have created for each and every one of us!

From some of the ridiculous prices listed in BST, to only writing to new members when they introduce themselves in the Introductions thread, only with intentions to personally raise their own post numbers, there is an outcry of too much pride and segregation amongst us men!


I've only been here for 7 months, but during this time, i have had the opportunity to appreciate many good folks here, that really do look out for people and stay away from the idiocy that lurks behind our technical devices! These people, only want to spend a fair amount of time talking about our shared hobby and ritual, and keep a certain peace, that shouldn't even have to be worried about.

I'm not the man that puts up with arguments online, because face to face, these things would not happen at all. That's not to say I'm a threat, but i do give and expect respect. I really would love for the feeling and vibe of what I've come to truly adore, to come back quickly, and that our mods will get rid of the carelessness that is roaming on the site, in which tries to destroy our comraderie. This is my feeling, my gut, my instinct and my daring self, to put forth a rebellion of resistance against the junk that is becoming more apparent each week. And trust me, this is not exaggerated, this needs to be said!


Much love, with tough love,
Bryan.

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 03-21-2015, 11:57 PM
#2
  • Mr_Smartepants
  • Senior Member
  • Cambridgeshire, UK (CONUS post address)
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Very true.
Conversations happen in very different contexts depending on if they're face-to-face, over the phone, or typed.
However, if all the members here loved just a single product, this place would get very boring, very quickly.
I'm glad for all the diversity.  Opinions are like arse-holes...everybody's got one and they're all different. Tongue
Without them, discussions would be flat and unappealing.
I agree that personal attacks are wrong (and banned on 99% of forums), but lively discussions are entertaining and healthy.

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 03-22-2015, 03:55 AM
#3
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Elephant huh.  You trying to say im fat?!? 


In all seriousness I hear what you're saying and agree. One thing that keeps me here over any other site is the atmosphere created by its members. True gentlemen that look out for each other and are completely open to all discussions. I would hate to see that fade away and this place turn into something you log into cautiously. No disrespect to anyone but I do see this more with newer younger members. Dang hormones! 

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 03-22-2015, 04:44 AM
#4
  • leefish
  • Pisciform Cavalry
  • The Netherlands
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 03-22-2015, 05:23 AM
#5
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I hadn't noticed any bad behavior, but considering the recent growth the site's experienced, I'm not surprised.  I guess it's up to us to set a good example.

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 03-22-2015, 05:38 AM
#6
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(03-21-2015, 11:57 PM)Mr_Smartepants Wrote: Very true.
Conversations happen in very different contexts depending on if they're face-to-face, over the phone, or typed.
However, if all the members here loved just a single product, this place would get very boring, very quickly.
I'm glad for all the diversity.  Opinions are like arse-holes...everybody's got one and they're all different. Tongue
Without them, discussions would be flat and unappealing.
I agree that personal attacks are wrong (and banned on 99% of forums), but lively discussions are entertaining and healthy.

This is my feeling as well.  Let the discussions take place, so long as they are not insulting or personal.  Once the name calling comes out or personal attacks, let the mods step in and give the warning or shut it down.  Not everyone is going to get along, not everyone is going to enjoy a discussion or debate on a product, but they are free to avoid them.

Opinion, posts or products can be challenged respectfully and without personal attack.   People are passionate about certain topic and products, I know I am.  Don't get me started on Used Soaps...bu if you do, expect some heated discussion but hopefully respectful ones.  Eusa_whistle

I say let the threads play out before closing them, see where it goes.

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 03-22-2015, 02:24 PM
#7
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
User Info
Maybe I'm selective in what I read, but I hadn't noticed anything  unseemly occurring in the rooms as far as ad hominem attacks go, contretemps, etc etc. Still, though. I had noticed one or two people taking umbrage at the very slightest remark and this then escalating...more resembling a hot souffle on the rise: mostly hot air. What I'd suggest is measured response in these circumstances, and a little bit of humour. 

The older and wiser among us should lead by example here. While we may not be responsible for the initial remarks...however formulated...we are responsible for our responses. 

The other thing to remember is that this is an international forum, and there may be distinct cultural differences manifest in the form of certain expressions that may, in fact, be quite culturally appropriate for the writer. Be tolerant, in other words. Don't go off half-cocked; anger is like picking up a hot coal to throw at your opponent: you'll only end up with a burnt hand, and the house might turn to a pile of ashes. 

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 03-22-2015, 04:52 PM
#8
  • CRAusmus
  • Senior Member
  • Going from Texas to Georgia
User Info
I'm selective in what I read, but I have had to be more selective lately.

There are a couple of times I've deleted a post before posting because I didn't want to be involved in the direction the discussion was going.  I have opinions about things too, but I read what I wrote and decided, on a few occasions, that it wasn't conducive to where the thread should be going and only continued it down it's already skewed path, so I simply deleted it and haven't visited those threads since.  I know everyone has opinions and we all, mostly, want to express them but please take the time to read your post before posting, if it nudges the thread deeper down a path that isn't constructive please consider not posting it at all or changing your post to help keep it on track.

I haven't noticed any personal attacks, and that's a good thing.  As long as we can all discuss products and techniques with out getting upset I'm ok.  I do hate the price discussions in BST public though.  In my opinion all questions about the sellers ethics or practices should only be conducted in private message.  We can all see when a seller has listed his price high, no need to point it out to him.

Thanks for bringing this up Bryan.  Glad you decided to start this conversation.

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 03-22-2015, 07:29 PM
#9
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Brian, you don't know how right you are.. I came from a board that was pretty loose. We had a lot of fun. It just seems that we need to lighten up a bit. It would be nice

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 03-23-2015, 03:41 AM
#10
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What's weird is that whatever "controversial" debates we have pale in comparison with some of the other fora I'm on, and these are style, home brew, gardening, etc. fora.

I don't mind physical play so long as it's within the rules. I also ask the question "does what I'm about to post advance the interests of TSN"? before hitting send.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 03-23-2015, 05:39 AM
#11
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You have to love social media

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 03-23-2015, 06:30 AM
#12
  • vferdman
  • Senior Member
  • Western Massachusetts
User Info
(03-21-2015, 11:45 PM)C-NoEviL Wrote: To all who read, skim, skip and view, this is for you!

Too often, within the past 3 - 4 months, there have been a tremendous amount of heated debates, discussions, lies and even hostility on this forum, that i personally respect and love, The Shave Nook.


-(Before i continue, please note, that i welcome any outing or form of negativity that will be placed on me, but honestly, it doesn't matter if I'll be less liked)-

Forward:
In my honest opinion, the ritual and rite of passage involved with shaving, is slowly becoming more of a way of life to most members here, and it is quite irritant to the spirit that i have come to adore on this site.  We are grown men, with a few women here, and we are starting to act like radicals when it comes to the difference of opinions, backgrounds, knowledge and duties, when all of what we should be focused on, is continuing the charm of what our moderators have created for each and every one of us!  

From some of the ridiculous prices listed in BST, to only writing to new members when they introduce themselves in the Introductions thread, only with intentions to personally raise their own post numbers, there is an outcry of too much pride and segregation amongst us men!


I've only been here for 7 months, but during this time, i have had the opportunity to appreciate many good folks here, that really do look out for people and stay away from the idiocy that lurks behind our technical devices! These people, only want to spend a fair amount of time talking about our shared hobby and ritual, and keep a certain peace, that shouldn't even have to be worried about.

I'm not the man that puts up with arguments online, because face to face, these things would not happen at all. That's not to say I'm a threat, but i do give and expect respect. I really would love for the feeling and vibe of what I've come to truly adore, to come back quickly, and that our mods will get rid of the carelessness that is roaming on the site, in which tries to destroy our comraderie.  This is my feeling, my gut, my instinct and my daring self, to put forth a rebellion of resistance against the junk that is becoming more apparent each week.  And trust me, this is not exaggerated, this needs to be said!


Much love, with tough love,
Bryan.

Bryan, I hear what you are saying and this is not the first time I have heard it from you on this forum. Even if it weren't said directly like it is in this thread, I have felt a note of having been slighted from you before. I have personally not experienced anything you are describing here on TSN myself, nevertheless I support you in voicing your discomfort. I only wish it were more specific and not so vague. I simply have little to no idea what you are complaining about. I think an example (with names removed, of course) may help here. Is there a specific instant where you feel the mods have not shut something down where they should have? I feel that TSN is a really good place and much better than other shaving sites, but that's my experience. I've been here for almost three years and have experienced nothing but excellence (with exceptions for usual noise, of course, which can not be eliminated). If all you are irritated about are high priced on BST, then it may not be a good reason to complain, but as I stated, I support you in your speaking out against some REAL threats to our community. High prices on BST and newbies posting to raise their post count are not a threat, IMO. That's just life. Lively discussion of people who disagree is also life and makes things interesting as long as there is mutual respect amongst the participants. If you have instances of respect not being afforded to you, you definitely need to contact the mods about it. That's not acceptable.

Again, I'm here in support for you.

Enjoy your shaves!

--
Vladimir

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 03-23-2015, 06:47 AM
#13
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I don't log in here to confront people or be confronted with disagreements. I really avoid reading those and move on to enjoying a review of a blade or soap. However, if you post a chili recipe with beans in it we are going to have a heated discussion.... Biggrin  

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 03-23-2015, 09:57 AM
#14
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(03-23-2015, 06:30 AM)vferdman Wrote:
(03-21-2015, 11:45 PM)C-NoEviL Wrote: To all who read, skim, skip and view, this is for you!

Too often, within the past 3 - 4 months, there have been a tremendous amount of heated debates, discussions, lies and even hostility on this forum, that i personally respect and love, The Shave Nook.


-(Before i continue, please note, that i welcome any outing or form of negativity that will be placed on me, but honestly, it doesn't matter if I'll be less liked)-

Forward:
In my honest opinion, the ritual and rite of passage involved with shaving, is slowly becoming more of a way of life to most members here, and it is quite irritant to the spirit that i have come to adore on this site.  We are grown men, with a few women here, and we are starting to act like radicals when it comes to the difference of opinions, backgrounds, knowledge and duties, when all of what we should be focused on, is continuing the charm of what our moderators have created for each and every one of us!  

From some of the ridiculous prices listed in BST, to only writing to new members when they introduce themselves in the Introductions thread, only with intentions to personally raise their own post numbers, there is an outcry of too much pride and segregation amongst us men!


I've only been here for 7 months, but during this time, i have had the opportunity to appreciate many good folks here, that really do look out for people and stay away from the idiocy that lurks behind our technical devices! These people, only want to spend a fair amount of time talking about our shared hobby and ritual, and keep a certain peace, that shouldn't even have to be worried about.

I'm not the man that puts up with arguments online, because face to face, these things would not happen at all. That's not to say I'm a threat, but i do give and expect respect. I really would love for the feeling and vibe of what I've come to truly adore, to come back quickly, and that our mods will get rid of the carelessness that is roaming on the site, in which tries to destroy our comraderie.  This is my feeling, my gut, my instinct and my daring self, to put forth a rebellion of resistance against the junk that is becoming more apparent each week.  And trust me, this is not exaggerated, this needs to be said!


Much love, with tough love,
Bryan.

Bryan, I hear what you are saying and this is not the first time I have heard it from you on this forum. Even if it weren't said directly like it is in this thread, I have felt a note of having been slighted from you before. I have personally not experienced anything you are describing here on TSN myself, nevertheless I support you in voicing your discomfort. I only wish it were more specific and not so vague. I simply have little to no idea what you are complaining about. I think an example (with names removed, of course) may help here. Is there a specific instant where you feel the mods have not shut something down where they should have? I feel that TSN is a really good place and much better than other shaving sites, but that's my experience. I've been here for almost three years and have experienced nothing but excellence (with exceptions for usual noise, of course, which can not be eliminated). If all you are irritated about are high priced on BST, then it may not be a good reason to complain, but as I stated, I support you in your speaking out against some REAL threats to our community. High prices on BST and newbies posting to raise their post count are not a threat, IMO. That's just life. Lively discussion of people who disagree is also life and makes things interesting as long as there is mutual respect amongst the participants. If you have instances of respect not being afforded to you, you definitely need to contact the mods about it. That's not acceptable.

Again, I'm here in support for you.

Enjoy your shaves!

--
Vladimir

Vladimir, i am very direct and will state any personal offense that i need to, at the directed parties. With that being said, i don't slight anyone, nor have i done so, to anyone, including you. If you have ever felt that, then i apologize; but please bring it to me, rather than trying to make a point like you just did. I don't speak whereas if I'm offended by someone, to everyone else, so that all can see! I will personally reach out to that person if i know they are willing to have an intelligent conversation. If that is not possible, or i feel myself becoming more affected than I'd like too, it will be presented to a mod.

Because you or a few others don't "notice" something that is becoming more apparent to myself, does not make me incorrect, or having to prove anything to anyone. This is what i feel and notice and have chosen to create a thread about. My quarrel is not just the BST, though it's been said plentiful by other members, that it is becoming more ridiculous, but i also have issues with actually conversations that take place between members going back and forth, who try to convince someone else why they should agree with them. It displays such passion towards that subject, that all people should fully agree with their perception, and that is a juvenile way to talk with anyone! This is not a good behavior, to me, amongst men, on such subjects, as honestly, unimportant, as shaving! It becomes irritant to me, because of what i stated initially.

Note, that i know about life, agreements, disagreements, passion, etc. I'm married with 2 kids, which is a life long covenant, so I'm not lost in what goes on with the world. I said what i said about my feeling with this particular forum, that i haven't seen since when i became a member. Now, no one stated TSN is bad, because it is far from it, but i did make it clear what i was referring to.

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 03-23-2015, 09:59 AM
#15
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(03-23-2015, 06:47 AM)DoctorShaveGood Wrote: I don't log in here to confront people or be confronted with disagreements. I really avoid reading those and move on to enjoying a review of a blade or soap. However, if you post a chili recipe with beans in it we are going to have a heated discussion.... Biggrin  
Heh, i love it Aaron. Speaking of chili, I'm having issues with the recipe of my own, so I'll be writing to get some advice!

From my Tab through the Tap

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 03-23-2015, 11:00 AM
#16
  • vferdman
  • Senior Member
  • Western Massachusetts
User Info
(03-23-2015, 09:57 AM)C-NoEviL Wrote: Vladimir, i am very direct and will state any personal offense that i need to, at the directed parties. With that being said, i don't slight anyone, nor have i done so, to anyone, including you. If you have ever felt that, then i apologize; but please bring it to me, rather than trying to make a point like you just did. I don't speak whereas if I'm offended by someone, to everyone else, so that all can see! I will personally reach out to that person if i know they are willing to have an intelligent conversation.  If that is not possible, or i feel myself becoming more affected than I'd like too, it will be presented to a mod.

Because you or a few others don't "notice" something that is becoming more apparent to myself, does not make me incorrect, or having to prove anything to anyone.  This is what i feel and notice and have chosen to create a thread about.  My quarrel is not just the BST, though it's been said plentiful by other members, that it is becoming more ridiculous, but i also have issues with  actually conversations that take place between members going back and forth, who try to convince someone else why they should agree with them. It displays such passion towards that subject, that all people should fully agree with their perception, and that is a juvenile way to talk with anyone! This is not a good behavior, to me, amongst men, on such subjects, as honestly, unimportant, as shaving!  It becomes irritant to me, because of what i stated initially.

Note, that i know about life, agreements, disagreements, passion, etc. I'm married with 2 kids, which is a life long covenant, so I'm not lost in what goes on with the world. I said what i said about my feeling with this particular forum, that i haven't seen since when i became a member. Now, no one stated TSN is bad, because it is far from it, but i did make it clear what i was referring to.

Bryan, I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I was trying to express the fact that I have perceived YOU expressing being slighted in some of your posts, not that I have been slighted by you. I have never had an exchange with you to feel that way. So no need to apologize to me as I have no grievance with you. What I meant was that I have read some posts from you in my random scanning of the forum and I can't help but perceive some sort of gripe you are carrying. Could it be you get too reactive (like you did with me just now about a misunderstanding)? In any case, I realize we are talking shaving here and it's a small thing and certainly any problem arising in this area is a first world problem, but a sense of civilized discussion is usually a norm here. Arguing and trying to make people see your point of view is part of the fun. If you don't like the tone of a discussion, the best way to deal with it is to shun it. This is what I do. I honestly can not be bothered most days with arguing about razors or cold/warm water in my routine. I am also married with two children and am leading an adult life with adult responsibilities. I suspect most people here are in the same boat. Yet I scan messages, read some, skip others and sometimes I allow myself to get drawn into a discussion if I have the time and energy. I never have any expectations of changing anyone's mind, though. Just offer my experience, wisdom and thoughts. What people choose to do with that is their deal, not mine. If I see a bickering thread I just leave it be. I highly recommend this tactic. It does wonders for one's sanity.

I hope this clears things up as I really believe you misunderstood what I was trying to say to you.

--
Vladimir

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 03-23-2015, 11:07 AM
#17
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-----

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 03-23-2015, 11:16 AM
#18
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(03-23-2015, 11:00 AM)vferdman Wrote:
(03-23-2015, 09:57 AM)C-NoEviL Wrote: Vladimir, i am very direct and will state any personal offense that i need to, at the directed parties. With that being said, i don't slight anyone, nor have i done so, to anyone, including you. If you have ever felt that, then i apologize; but please bring it to me, rather than trying to make a point like you just did. I don't speak whereas if I'm offended by someone, to everyone else, so that all can see! I will personally reach out to that person if i know they are willing to have an intelligent conversation.  If that is not possible, or i feel myself becoming more affected than I'd like too, it will be presented to a mod.

Because you or a few others don't "notice" something that is becoming more apparent to myself, does not make me incorrect, or having to prove anything to anyone.  This is what i feel and notice and have chosen to create a thread about.  My quarrel is not just the BST, though it's been said plentiful by other members, that it is becoming more ridiculous, but i also have issues with  actually conversations that take place between members going back and forth, who try to convince someone else why they should agree with them. It displays such passion towards that subject, that all people should fully agree with their perception, and that is a juvenile way to talk with anyone! This is not a good behavior, to me, amongst men, on such subjects, as honestly, unimportant, as shaving!  It becomes irritant to me, because of what i stated initially.

Note, that i know about life, agreements, disagreements, passion, etc. I'm married with 2 kids, which is a life long covenant, so I'm not lost in what goes on with the world. I said what i said about my feeling with this particular forum, that i haven't seen since when i became a member. Now, no one stated TSN is bad, because it is far from it, but i did make it clear what i was referring to.

Bryan, I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I was trying to express the fact that I have perceived YOU expressing being slighted in some of your posts, not that I have been slighted by you. I have never had an exchange with you to feel that way. So no need to apologize to me as I have no grievance with you. What I meant was that I have read some posts from you in my random scanning of the forum and I can't help but perceive some sort of gripe you are carrying. Could it be you get too reactive (like you did with me just now about a misunderstanding)? In any case, I realize we are talking shaving here and it's a small thing and certainly any problem arising in this area is a first world problem, but a sense of civilized discussion is usually a norm here. Arguing and trying to make people see your point of view is part of the fun. If you don't like the tone of a discussion, the best way to deal with it is to shun it. This is what I do. I honestly can not be bothered most days with arguing about razors or cold/warm water in my routine. I am also married with two children and am leading an adult life with adult responsibilities. I suspect most people here are in the same boat. Yet I scan messages, read some, skip others and sometimes I allow myself to get drawn into a discussion if I have the time and energy. I never have any expectations of changing anyone's mind, though. Just offer my experience, wisdom and thoughts. What people choose to do with that is their deal, not mine. If I see a bickering thread I just leave it be. I highly recommend this tactic. It does wonders for one's sanity.

I hope this clears things up as I really believe you misunderstood what I was trying to say to you.

--
Vladimir
Vladimir, thank you for clearing this up. You are correct, we never had any issues, and i have felt slighted by others, but that was awhile ago. I didn't think that that is what you meant when you wrote it. Either way, i hear you and agree and conclude that i appreciate you responding and giving me your insight. I too do my best to slide away from things that might be absurd. I dint have a gripe that I'm holding, but more like a feeling that we could all converse better, just like you and i have done.

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 03-23-2015, 11:28 AM
#19
  • robk
  • Senior Member
  • New Jersey
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It's a big world out there. If someone isn't playing nice, there are plenty of other folks with whom we can play. I've not encountered much here that turned me off. Best simply to move on to the next thread, the next post, the next encounter.

Life is too short, and, Bryan, you are too sweet a human being, to let the sometimes petty silliness of some folks here or anywhere else (especially anywhere on the web) get you down.

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 03-23-2015, 11:58 AM
#20
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(03-23-2015, 11:28 AM)robk Wrote: It's a big world out there. If someone isn't playing nice, there are plenty of other folks with whom we can play. I've not encountered much here that turned me off. Best simply to move on to the next thread, the next post, the next encounter.

Life is too short, and, Bryan, you are too sweet a human being, to let the sometimes petty silliness of some folks here or anywhere else (especially anywhere on the web) get you down.

Thumbup

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