04-09-2015, 07:07 AM
#1
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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I rely on a caliper to measure brush loft and knot diameter but somehow misplaced it a few months ago. I kept thinking that it would turn up but have finally given up. Now that I have ordered the caliper pictured below, it is a safe bet that I will find my old caliper. Biggrin That is just the way things work. 

[Image: rR4ZXog.jpg]

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 04-09-2015, 07:35 AM
#2
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Murphy says it will be so! Murphy also never used a digital reader on his caliper, as he was an old-school type of guy. We now have a time-continuum problem! 

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 04-09-2015, 07:45 AM
#3
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(04-09-2015, 07:35 AM)Nusquam Humanitus Wrote: Murphy says it will be so! Murphy also never used a digital reader on his caliper, as he was an old-school type of guy. We now have a time-continuum problem

haha...we do indeed.

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 04-09-2015, 08:03 AM
#4
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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I have the exact caliper you pictured above. It works fantastically for me. Unlike mechanical calipers that rely on mechanical friction to keep an accurate measurement (and hence are extremely susceptible to heat, humidity, my butterfingers, etc) this one seems to rely on optical reading of the hashes on the slide. As a result, it is not (as) susceptible to drift or mis-calibration. What's more you can't beat the price! :-D

My only regret is that I use it for other purposes, and this particular model doesn't support imperial fractions. I wish I had spent the extra $5...

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 04-09-2015, 08:07 AM
#5
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(04-09-2015, 08:03 AM)chamm Wrote: I have the exact caliper you pictured above. It works fantastically for me. Unlike mechanical calipers that rely on mechanical friction to keep an accurate measurement (and hence are extremely susceptible to heat, humidity, my butterfingers, etc) this one seems to rely on optical reading of the hashes on the slide. As a result, it is not (as) susceptible to drift or mis-calibration. What's more you can't beat the price! :-D

My only regret is that I use it for other purposes, and this particular model doesn't support imperial fractions. I wish I had spent the extra $5...

Yes, the price was unbeatable. Only $34 with free shipping I believe.

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 04-09-2015, 08:34 AM
#6
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You ever want it calibrated Phil just give me a shout. I'll hook you up.  Wink

We're actually partial to Mitutoyo calipers in the lab but they can be a bit pricey. If I ever want to know a loft on a brush or razor specs I just bring them to work. Main thing I misplace,  purchase,  then find are sockets and bits. Drives me nuts!  

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 04-09-2015, 08:36 AM
#7
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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(04-09-2015, 08:07 AM)bullgoose Wrote: Yes, the price was unbeatable. Only $34 with free shipping I believe.

Oh man, I don't want to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I think I paid $14 for mine on Amazon Prime. And I'm nearly certain that they are the same calipers. Maybe you still have time to cancel and re-order?  Thumbup

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 04-09-2015, 08:36 AM
#8
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I use mine often and also misplace it often. So far it has always turned up somewhere. A really useful tool for measuring brush lofts.

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 04-09-2015, 08:56 AM
#9
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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(04-09-2015, 08:34 AM)FreddieP318ti Wrote: You ever want it calibrated Phil just give me a shout. I'll hook you up.  Wink

We're actually partial to Mitutoyo calipers in the lab but they can be a bit pricey. If I ever want to know a loft on a brush or razor specs I just bring them to work. Main thing I misplace,  purchase,  then find are sockets and bits. Drives me nuts!  

I'm actually very curious about this:

I bought mine for the express purpose of measuring the loft and knot on my brushes, and I occasionally measure other stuff - nothing of real consequence.

Most people who use calipers for a "real" purpose tend to frown heavily on the "cheap Chinese" calipers pictured above. I can understand the idea that you use a professional tool to do a professional job, but I've always had trouble wrapping my head around why people seem to be so completely dismissive of these. Mine seems vastly more accurate than the one I inherited from my grandfather. (Which he used to repair engines on Navy ships in WWII.) I understand that technology is better now than 70 years ago, but I've seen very expensive mechanical calipers, and to me, it seems that they would be far inferior to even the cheapest of "cheap Chines" calipers.

As an armchair machinist who has zero skills, but wants to understand the process better, is there some aspect that I'm missing? Do these cheap calipers have the potential of measuring horribly wrong?

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 04-09-2015, 09:08 AM
#10
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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Oh, and here's another tip on those calipers:

The "off" button doesn't really turn those calipers off. It just puts them into a "suspend" mode, and they're woken up by even the slightest movement. So if you turn them "off" then throw them into a case where they get moved, you'll have a dead battery next time you use them.

There is a set screw on the top of the calipers. When you turn them "off" be sure to tighten that set screw so they don't slide in the case. That way, your battery will last months instead of days.

This may be standard knowledge to other people who use calipers all the time, but I had no idea, and after about three batteries, I "discovered" this all on my own. :-)

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 04-09-2015, 09:09 AM
#11
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(04-09-2015, 08:56 AM)chamm Wrote:
(04-09-2015, 08:34 AM)FreddieP318ti Wrote: You ever want it calibrated Phil just give me a shout. I'll hook you up.  Wink

We're actually partial to Mitutoyo calipers in the lab but they can be a bit pricey. If I ever want to know a loft on a brush or razor specs I just bring them to work. Main thing I misplace,  purchase,  then find are sockets and bits. Drives me nuts!  

I'm actually very curious about this:

I bought mine for the express purpose of measuring the loft and knot on my brushes, and I occasionally measure other stuff - nothing of real consequence.

Most people who use calipers for a "real" purpose tend to frown heavily on the "cheap Chinese" calipers pictured above. I can understand the idea that you use a professional tool to do a professional job, but I've always had trouble wrapping my head around why people seem to be so completely dismissive of these. Mine seems vastly more accurate than the one I inherited from my grandfather. (Which he used to repair engines on Navy ships in WWII.) I understand that technology is better now than 70 years ago, but I've seen very expensive mechanical calipers, and to me, it seems that they would be far inferior to even the cheapest of "cheap Chines" calipers.

As an armchair machinist who has zero skills, but wants to understand the process better, is there some aspect that I'm missing? Do these cheap calipers have the potential of measuring horribly wrong?

They can measure just as well as any other but may lack features or the materials used in more higher end sets. For what they are being used for they are fine. I work in the auto industry so we need to measure down to the hundreds or thousandths of a millimeter at times. Plus the jaws on ours are carbide,  non magnetic,  and the caliper is,  sealed, coolant proof etc.

I just know people that wish to know how accurate the tool is they are using. We have some engineers that have sets just like Phils that bring them to me for cleaning or calibration and peace of mind. 

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 04-09-2015, 09:12 AM
#12
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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(04-09-2015, 09:09 AM)FreddieP318ti Wrote: They can measure just as well as any other but may lack features or the materials used in more higher end sets. For what they are being used for they are fine. I work in the auto industry so we need to measure down to the hundreds or thousandths of a millimeter at times. Plus the jaws on ours are carbide,  non magnetic,  and the caliper is,  sealed, coolant proof etc.

I just know people that wish to know how accurate the tool is they are using. We have some engineers that have sets just like Phils that bring them to me for cleaning or calibration and peace of mind. 

Thank you very much! I knew there had to be a reasonable explanation, and yours makes perfect sense. Especially the part about making the jaws out of carbide, and being fluid-proof. I imagine if I were measuring metal bolts dozens of times per day, it wouldn't take long to wear the metal jaws on the calipers and screw up their accuracy. Since I'm only measuring knots, handles, and occasionally a piece of wood, it probably makes no difference to me.

Anyhow, thanks for the explanation!

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 04-09-2015, 09:38 AM
#13
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I guess my interpretation of calipers is a bit out-dated, but it really works for me and I am rarely incorrect in my assessments of knots! I highly recommend them!
https://www.google.com/search?q=images+of+a+ruler&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=&gfe_rd=cr&gws_rd=ssl&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=qLgmVd3HBoq4ogTVuoDwDg&ved=0CBMQsAQ&tbm=isch

Biggrin

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 04-09-2015, 09:59 AM
#14
  • ncguy1
  • TARHEEL
  • North Carolina
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This helped me make my choice...  

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 04-09-2015, 10:08 AM
#15
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(04-09-2015, 08:56 AM)chamm Wrote:
(04-09-2015, 08:34 AM)FreddieP318ti Wrote: You ever want it calibrated Phil just give me a shout. I'll hook you up.  Wink

We're actually partial to Mitutoyo calipers in the lab but they can be a bit pricey. If I ever want to know a loft on a brush or razor specs I just bring them to work. Main thing I misplace,  purchase,  then find are sockets and bits. Drives me nuts!  

I'm actually very curious about this:

I bought mine for the express purpose of measuring the loft and knot on my brushes, and I occasionally measure other stuff - nothing of real consequence.

Most people who use calipers for a "real" purpose tend to frown heavily on the "cheap Chinese" calipers pictured above. I can understand the idea that you use a professional tool to do a professional job, but I've always had trouble wrapping my head around why people seem to be so completely dismissive of these. Mine seems vastly more accurate than the one I inherited from my grandfather. (Which he used to repair engines on Navy ships in WWII.) I understand that technology is better now than 70 years ago, but I've seen very expensive mechanical calipers, and to me, it seems that they would be far inferior to even the cheapest of "cheap Chines" calipers.

As an armchair machinist who has zero skills, but wants to understand the process better, is there some aspect that I'm missing? Do these cheap calipers have the potential of measuring horribly wrong?

The major problems I've experienced with the cheap and cheerful ones is that they tend to drift - easily fixed by returning it to zero between measurements - and that they sometimes will give you different measurements on the same piece you're measuring... nothing major, but when you are working on equipment where the tolerances are in the 1/100 of a mm, and the callipers varies with 0.05 mm or more on your measures it can be an issue. We mostly used Mitutoyo as well... expensive, but properly looked after they lasted forever. A nice sett of gauge blocks were critical for the yearly calibration of the callipers, micrometers and other fun toys... nothing most people ever need to worry about.

Overall I actually prefer mechanical callipers, both for mm and fractional inches. Takes a little time to learn how to read the vernier scale, but once you learned the skill it's easy to read off 1/128th inch or a 1/20th mm (for measuring the loft of a brush, such accuracy is most likely not needed) on a suitable equipped calliper.

[Image: sXuxl9T.jpg]

A bit of calliper-porn - my maternal grandfathers old calliper he used for decades working as a smith, later handed down to me... still works a treat, as long as I don't tro to measure big stuff  Biggrin

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 04-09-2015, 10:27 AM
#16
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(04-09-2015, 09:12 AM)chamm Wrote:
(04-09-2015, 09:09 AM)FreddieP318ti Wrote: They can measure just as well as any other but may lack features or the materials used in more higher end sets. For what they are being used for they are fine. I work in the auto industry so we need to measure down to the hundreds or thousandths of a millimeter at times. Plus the jaws on ours are carbide,  non magnetic,  and the caliper is,  sealed, coolant proof etc.

I just know people that wish to know how accurate the tool is they are using. We have some engineers that have sets just like Phils that bring them to me for cleaning or calibration and peace of mind. 

Thank you very much! I knew there had to be a reasonable explanation, and yours makes perfect sense. Especially the part about making the jaws out of carbide, and being fluid-proof. I imagine if I were measuring metal bolts dozens of times per day, it wouldn't take long to wear the metal jaws on the calipers and screw up their accuracy. Since I'm only measuring knots, handles, and occasionally a piece of wood, it probably makes no difference to me.

Anyhow, thanks for the explanation!

We do not measure bolts and do not use them as the final measurement. We manufacture friction and mating plates for torque converters. We just use them for quick dimensional checks. Our final checks are done on CMM's, Quick visions, contracers, etc. 
What Wegian stated above is spot on with his explanation as well between everyday and high-end digital calipers. 

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 04-09-2015, 10:45 AM
#17
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Nice manual calipers, Hans! I need to get some of those. Thanks for the idea and I guess it will be an improvement on my ruler! Biggrin

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 04-09-2015, 11:30 AM
#18
  • Johnny
  • MODERATOR EMERITUS
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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My caliper cost absolutely zero.  I don't own one.  I depend on you guys to take the measurements. Smile

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 04-09-2015, 11:54 AM
#19
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(04-09-2015, 09:38 AM)celestino Wrote: I guess my interpretation of calipers is a bit out-dated, but it really works for me and I am rarely incorrect in my assessments of knots! I highly recommend them!
https://www.google.com/search?q=images+of+a+ruler&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=&gfe_rd=cr&gws_rd=ssl&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=qLgmVd3HBoq4ogTVuoDwDg&ved=0CBMQsAQ&tbm=isch

Biggrin

Sometimes the old ways are still the best. That's my method, too, Celestino, but I now struggle to see the divisions! Biggrin

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 04-09-2015, 01:08 PM
#20
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(04-09-2015, 11:54 AM)Optometrist Wrote: Sometimes the old ways are still the best. That's my method, too, Celestino, but I now struggle to see the divisions! Biggrin

Biggrin

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