04-23-2015, 01:12 PM
#1
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I had one of these once and sold it as I thought it was too firm and not soft enough. I didn't keep it long and may very well have not used it enough to determine if it would break in a bit? 
For some reason, I'm tempted to try again. If you have one, did it soften up after a number of uses? 

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 04-23-2015, 02:01 PM
#2
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I think it's fair to say that in general, Manchurian badger hair tips curl over, and therefore soften with use. My CH3 and M6, both Manchurian are a face latherer's dream. YMMV.  Biggrin
[Image: JBGXKKr.jpg]

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 04-23-2015, 02:06 PM
#3
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Absolutely they soften up! I think you should give in to the urge.  There is no finer brush around than a Chubby 2 in Manchurian!

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 04-23-2015, 03:17 PM
#4
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Had one. Didn't like it. Kept it around, and then decided there are much better brushes out there.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: if Simpsons had marketed this Manchurian grade as being worse than their Best, I'd have believed them. Their genius was to market it as a premium grade, and people believed them.

Of course, this is a personal opinion. I don't insist on it being agreed with........which is good, as a lot of guys here will probably disagree with me. Smile

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 04-23-2015, 03:29 PM
#5
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(04-23-2015, 03:17 PM)yohannrjm Wrote: Had one. Didn't like it. Kept it around, and then decided there are much better brushes out there.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: if Simpsons had marketed this Manchurian grade as being worse than their Best, I'd have believed them. Their genius was to market it as a premium grade, and people believed them.

Of course, this is a personal opinion. I don't insist on it being agreed with........which is good, as a lot of guys here will probably disagree with me. Smile

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Of course, there are chaps who don't prefer Manchurian hair that is a personal preference.  The hair can be a bit more coarse than some prefer.   However, Simpson's Manchurian has some wonderful qualities that if they fit your personal brush preferences, you need look no further for your favorite brush.  My two favorite qualities of Simpson Manchurian are backbone and flow through.  If you like a brush with excellent backbone that retains great flow thorough, Manchurian is tough to beat.  Most brushes with this level of backbone have poor flow through.
It all depends on what you are looking for in a brush.  For me, Simpson's Manchurian is one of my favorites! 

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 04-23-2015, 03:40 PM
#6
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(04-23-2015, 03:29 PM)merkur man Wrote: Of course, there are chaps who don't prefer Manchurian hair that is a personal preference.  The hair can be a bit more coarse than some prefer.   However, Simpson's Manchurian has some wonderful qualities that if they fit your personal brush preferences, you need look no further for your favorite brush.  My two favorite qualities of Simpson Manchurian are backbone and flow through.  If you like a brush with excellent backbone that retains great flow thorough, Manchurian is tough to beat.  Most brushes with this level of backbone have poor flow through.
It all depends on what you are looking for in a brush.  For me, Simpson's Manchurian is one of my favorites! 

Absolutely! It does have a bunch of fans, as it should.

One of my gripes was that when Mark first made them available, the claim was that they only had '2 kg' of the hair, and and that it was very rare. They used the 'rarity' to set the price.

Of course, once those 2 kg were used up, they got more, and more, and more.....

My opinion (and it is only an opinion) is that the hair is:
1) not that rare
2) perhaps even more common than their Super

But the prices for Super were already set. They tested the waters to see if the market would accept Manchurian as being a more premium grade, and then they were set.

Nothing wrong with this. It's perfect marketing. But I didn't like it.


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 04-23-2015, 05:32 PM
#7
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I wasn't aware of the sales pitch Yohann.  Interestingly enough, modern Manchurian is nothing like Somerset Manchurian.  Take a look at the beauty below. I found this brush to be much more akin to genuine Rooney Finest than I found it to be similar to modern Simpson's Manchurian.  Without question the hair has changed over time.  However, I'd personally still take the modern Manchurian over this amazing Somerset one. 
[Image: 1cGPnF5.jpg]

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 04-23-2015, 05:48 PM
#8
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Mine is modern and easily one of my top brushes...fabulous knot.

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 04-23-2015, 07:41 PM
#9
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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Current Simpson Manchurian is my preferred hair too. 

I owned a bunch of Rooney Finest and a Somerset Simpson Manchurian and parted with them in favour of Mark's current offerings. While I agree Mark is an astute business man, there are specific qualities of the hair that do appeal to me. I also own a number of Plisson HMW (another range commanding a premium) and although very different in knot construction, the individual fibres do share some similarities. Neither represent shrewd investment choices, but I derive a level of satisfaction from them that exceeds the 100's of other brushes I've tried. Although this grade of hair might be my favoured experience, I whole heartedly embrace the fact that the price and characteristics may not suit everyone.

In answer to the Op's question, current Simpson Manchurian does soften with use.

Further to this, pre Jubilee Manchurian brushes often possessed less soft tips than the Jubilee and the majority of Simpson Manchurians after it. 

Another consideration is density. A Duke for example is less dense than a Chubby. As a result the Duke is likely to exhibit a lower level of knot integrity, providing less resistance against the face and a softer overall feel. Perhaps try a Duke 3 as opposed to another Chubby 2?

In summary, the style and batch will have an impact on firmness and softness. Use will encourage splay and tip softness, but not necessarily in quantum leap proportions.

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 04-24-2015, 01:16 AM
#10
  • MarkW
  • Senior Member
  • Isle of Man
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(04-23-2015, 03:40 PM)yohannrjm Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 03:29 PM)merkur man Wrote: Of course, there are chaps who don't prefer Manchurian hair that is a personal preference.  The hair can be a bit more coarse than some prefer.   However, Simpson's Manchurian has some wonderful qualities that if they fit your personal brush preferences, you need look no further for your favorite brush.  My two favorite qualities of Simpson Manchurian are backbone and flow through.  If you like a brush with excellent backbone that retains great flow thorough, Manchurian is tough to beat.  Most brushes with this level of backbone have poor flow through.
It all depends on what you are looking for in a brush.  For me, Simpson's Manchurian is one of my favorites! 

Absolutely! It does have a bunch of fans, as it should.

One of my gripes was that when Mark first made them available, the claim was that they only had '2 kg' of the hair, and and that it was very rare. They used the 'rarity' to set the price.

Of course, once those 2 kg were used up, they got more, and more, and more.....

My opinion (and it is only an opinion) is that the hair is:
1) not that rare
2) perhaps even more common than their Super

But the prices for Super were already set. They tested the waters to see if the market would accept Manchurian as being a more premium grade, and then they were set.

Nothing wrong with this. It's perfect marketing. But I didn't like it.


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"not that rare"

Well, we still have trouble procuring it despite what you may think (at a substantial premium).

"perhaps even more common than their Super"

That would depend on how you view shaving forums in relation to a brand and it's overall sales figures. Our Manchurian brush sales are tiny in percentage terms of all brushes sold - It's just we read about them more here because that's how enthusiasts roll - we like to show off our latest & greatest wares! Best & Super far outweigh anything produced in Manchurian.

You don't like it - I get that. YMMV.

Have a great weekend.

Mark

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 04-24-2015, 02:39 AM
#11
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(04-23-2015, 07:41 PM)ben74 Wrote: ....... there are specific qualities of the hair that do appeal to me. I also own a number of Plisson HMW (another range commanding a premium) and although very different in knot construction, the individual fibres do share some similarities. ......

In answer to the Op's question, current Simpson Manchurian does soften with use.

That's pretty much what I as getting at - people have different tastes, and this grade of badger hair offers a variant that may appeal to a segment of the user population. That's actually a good thing. I liked Rooney Finest more, but even that didn't match my tastes - there was no reason to hang onto them.

I also want to support Ben's comment on the tips: they do get softer (not bot significantly so). I have a much smaller rotation than Ben, and I used my Manchurian Chubby a lot when I had it. Maybe years and years of use would soften it more, but over the months I used it, the change was not super-significant, but there was a change. 

-----------

merkur man - I had a Somerset Chubby 3 Manchurian (maybe even that very brush) - it was okay, but different from today's Manchurian offering. Nicer looking, for sure. I certainly didn't think it was all that. 

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 04-24-2015, 08:48 AM
#12
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This is what I love about our wet shaving community. Healthy debate, knowledgeable people aand even a response from Mark himself. Top notch fellow Nookers.
For me I love my Tulip T3 Manchurian, my holy grail brush that I eventually acquired. (My CH2 2 band, Rover, Duke 3 and M6 aren't far behind)

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 04-24-2015, 09:01 AM
#13
  • evnpar
  • Emeritus
  • Portland, Oregon
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The Chubby 2 Manchurian is a beautiful, luxurious brush, and well worth the hype. However, as nice as it is, it wasn't for me and I sold it. I'm probably the odd one out as I prefer the Edwin Jagger STF XL synthetic knot for overall performance over the Chubby 2 Manchurian. I would love to try the Simpson synthetic if they would only set the loft a little higher. I did like the firmness of the Manchurian, and the softness wasn't bad, but I didn't care for the lack of flow through, although others praise the brush for this. I haven't given up on Manchurian or badger brushes, and am still looking for one that performs well for me, but in the meantime my go to brush is still the STF XL.

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 04-24-2015, 09:24 AM
#14
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I've got a hole in my den where my CH2 Manchurian used to live since I just traded it. It was a wonderfully luxurious brush that was about as densely packed as a Rooney Finest, but there was just another brush I had to attempt to acquire and it worked out. I didn't find the knot to be cloud soft, but it was soft enough and was unrivaled in backbone. I also really enjoyed the gentle scrub in the tips that did not contain any scritch or scratch. I'll definitely be getting another Manchurian some time down the road.  

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 04-24-2015, 10:34 AM
#15
  • tsimmns
  • Senior Member
  • Mississippi
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I dream of one day owning both a Chubby 2 and Duke 3 in Manchurian with the famed "black" handle


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 04-26-2015, 07:01 PM
#16
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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I had a CH2 Manchurian, along with a 2-band Super, 3-band Super, and Best. I thought the Manchurian was an extremely well made, beautiful brush that provided a unique experience in the CH2 range. But ultimately, I preferred the Super 3-band for its softer tips, better flow through, greater lather holding capability, better heat retention, and more fan shaped knot. These are just my opinions, of course. I should add that I preferred my CH2 Best to the Manchurian, too.

I found my CH2 Manchurian to soften with use, but this took longer than my other Manchurians, no doubt because of the extreme density of the CH2. My preference in Manchurian leans toward a taller loft and less densely packed brush. I'm quite fond of the M6.


Andrew

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 04-26-2015, 08:40 PM
#17
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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My experiences were almost opposite to Andrew's. I found my Manchurian to have the superior flow through of all the hair grades. My 2 band Super had the softest tips. My 3 band Super retained the most lather within the knot. My Best was a Somerset Era and was really quite indistinguishable from the Super. My Manchurian (although I'd define as hybrid) was the most fan-like with both 2 and 3 band Supers being most definitely bulb shaped.

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 04-27-2015, 03:15 AM
#18
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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(04-26-2015, 08:40 PM)ben74 Wrote: ...My 3 band Super retained the most lather within the knot.


I agree. This is what I meant by greater lather holding capability. The 3-band Super tends to keep more lather in the knot, allowing a more even distribution over a 3-pass shave. With the Manchurian, I'd find myself running out of lather after the second pass. I think this had to do with the stiffness of the knot, which wouldn't open up as much.

Here is my old line-up of CH2s:

[Image: CH2s1.jpg]

The 3-band Super and Somerset 2-band are the most fan shaped. The Best and Manchurian have a very similar shape in between fan and bulb. And the 2-band Super is about as bulb shaped as you can get.

[Image: CH2Super3.jpg]


[Image: Manchubbian.jpg]

[Image: CH2Best.jpg]

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 04-27-2015, 03:38 AM
#19
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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Beautiful brushes Andrew, I now understand what you meant.

Here are some of my Chubby brushes (past and present)...

[Image: gqYVkl8.png]

[Image: xEoEjj1.png]

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 04-27-2015, 05:57 AM
#20
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(04-24-2015, 09:01 AM)evnpar Wrote: The Chubby 2 Manchurian is a beautiful, luxurious brush, and well worth the hype. However, as nice as it is, it wasn't for me and I sold it. I'm probably the odd one out as I prefer the Edwin Jagger STF XL synthetic knot for overall performance over the Chubby 2 Manchurian. I would love to try the Simpson synthetic if they would only set the loft a little higher. I did like the firmness of the Manchurian, and the softness wasn't bad, but I didn't care for the lack of flow through, although others praise the brush for this. I haven't given up on Manchurian or badger brushes, and am still looking for one that performs well for me, but in the meantime my go to brush is still the STF XL.
I have a 2nd generation CH2 Synthetic and the loft is fantastic; easy splay, terrific backbone and SOFT! 
(in a 'soulless' sort of way... Wink  ) 
BTW, all of these Chubby pictures are causing me to hyperventilate!  Biggrin

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