04-30-2015, 05:02 PM
#1
  • ncguy1
  • TARHEEL
  • North Carolina
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Didn't know where else to post this so I thought I would post it here.


So many times I see someone selling something and saying that they will cover the Paypal fees. Well you SHOULD cover those fees because they are YOURS to begin with. It's sellers fees...Not Buyers fees.

It is also against Paypals Terms of Service to pass those fees along to the buyer.

Paypal TOS:
3. Eligibility for Use.

3.4 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method.


Now I don't know about you but that seems pretty clear to me.

 I just saw a thread where a buyer paid $8 for the sellers fees. Well anyone turned in to Paypal for this can have his/hers Paypal account suspended or cancelled.Maybe that is what needs to start happening.

Telling a buyer that "I'll cover the paypal fees" is like saying "I'll pay for the gas it takes to drive to the post office and send your package"

If this is against forum rules for posting any of this then I apologize but I just wanted to put this out there in case some of you didn't know this.

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 04-30-2015, 05:05 PM
#2
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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This is clearly stated in the TSN Forum Rules, regarding BST transactions:

Sellers may not request PayPal Personal / Gift payments.   Period.

Any violation of these rules should be reported to a TSN Moderator.

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 04-30-2015, 05:11 PM
#3
  • ncguy1
  • TARHEEL
  • North Carolina
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(04-30-2015, 05:05 PM)Agravic Wrote: This is clearly stated in the TSN Forum Rules, regarding BST transactions:

Sellers may not request PayPal Personal / Gift payments.   Period.

Any violation of these rules should be reported to a TSN Moderator.

I haven't seen anyone post saying to send payment as a gift but I have seen postings saying  Plus shipping and Paypal fees.  I understand shipping but I don't think people realize that they shouldn't be charging for their sellers fees.

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 04-30-2015, 05:14 PM
#4
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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A seller should incorporate shipping and other fees into the total sale price, without stating 'plus shipping and paypal fees'.

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 04-30-2015, 05:17 PM
#5
  • ncguy1
  • TARHEEL
  • North Carolina
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I agree completely

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 04-30-2015, 06:04 PM
#6
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
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 My guess is  you pointing my tread of sale of Plisson 12, yes you are right ! I paid the asking price of 250$ and then the seller ,start complaining  of this fees and I felt so bad that I paid him another 8$ to cover his lost . This is the  reality ,if you are new member and do 
not know the rules is OK, but ...........!
l

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 04-30-2015, 06:26 PM
#7
  • ncguy1
  • TARHEEL
  • North Carolina
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You did nothing wrong Bony but you shouldn't have had to pay that extra $8. I just don't like seeing people taken advantage of. I don't buy from sellers who ask me to pay their fees. I run a small pet supply company and have dealt with Paypal/Credit Card Companies for years. I've also heard it all from people who say "Well I can charge for credit card fees" and yadda yadda yadda. The bottom line is Paypal for buyers is FREE.  Look at their website,it'll tell ya.

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 04-30-2015, 09:00 PM
#8
  • Mr_Smartepants
  • Senior Member
  • Cambridgeshire, UK (CONUS post address)
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Paypal must have changed their fee-rules recently because I sent a buddy some money (friends & family option) and paypal charged ME a fee for the privilege!
Looks like they're taking fees on all transactions now.
They've never done that in the past.

For the OP, when I have stuff for sale on BST and say "Price includes Paypal fees and shipping with tracking.", it's more for clarification than anything else.
I know what the BST rules say, but like you said not everyone reads them.

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 05-01-2015, 12:40 AM
#9
  • ncguy1
  • TARHEEL
  • North Carolina
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(04-30-2015, 09:00 PM)Mr_Smartepants Wrote: Paypal must have changed their fee-rules recently because I sent a buddy some money (friends & family option) and paypal charged ME a fee for the privilege!
Looks like they're taking fees on all transactions now.
They've never done that in the past.

For the OP, when I have stuff for sale on BST and say "Price includes Paypal fees and shipping with tracking.", it's more for clarification than anything else.
I know what the BST rules say, but like you said not everyone reads them.

I don't think that you're considered a "buyer" for sending family and/or friends money. I think that you have to be paying for goods or services.We use Paypal daily and are not charged for any of our purchases.

Saying "Price includes Paypal fees and shipping with tracking" is against Paypals rules simply by proving that you are charging the buyer for your sellers fees. Now in your mind you can raise the price of your item by 3% before you list it (and not announce it)and be following all of the rules.

Long story made short; Years ago I was a Mod of a bodybuilding forum.Some other mods and myself were in a "discussion" with two members of the forum that were charging Paypal fees in our BST and members complained. We warned the two members but nothing changed. Instead of banning them we wanted to prove a point and talked to a Paypal Rep. We were told that they would investigate. In all fairness, we don't know what all Paypal found in their investigation as they do not disclose their findings, but two weeks later the two members said that they were going to sue the forum admin because their Paypal accounts had been suspended for 30 days. Obviously there was nothing that they could do as they had broken the rules.


From what I've seen most of the guys on this forum are really good guys and I think this is a great place to come and learn. All I'm saying is to be one of the good guys and pay your own fees.

Plus this is the complaints section of the forum and sometimes you just feel better after voicing your complaint.

......and I feel better now. Biggrin

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 05-01-2015, 05:10 AM
#10
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The buyer may also pay some fees if using a credit card. There are no fees when using a verified bank account IIRC. So this is what can explain some of the fees people are seeing even on the gift option. By the way, for as long as I've been using PayPal it has been this way. 

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 05-01-2015, 05:40 AM
#11
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(04-30-2015, 09:00 PM)Mr_Smartepants Wrote: Paypal must have changed their fee-rules recently because I sent a buddy some money (friends & family option) and paypal charged ME a fee for the privilege!
Looks like they're taking fees on all transactions now.
They've never done that in the past.
They only charge you for a personal payment if you are using a linked debit or credit card.  If you have a positive Paypal balance or a linked bank account there is no fee:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpce...nId=FAQ690

Also, generally speaking, paying the Paypal fees benefits the seller.  Most likely if there is a dispute its going to be at the receiving end and therefore already out of the seller's hands (i.e. the item was lost, broken, not working, etc.), and so in this case Paypal fees act like insurance:

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/secur...protection

Remember that these transactions are leaps of faith for the buyer.  They are paying money without any escrow.

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 05-01-2015, 06:38 AM
#12
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It's against PayPal's terms of service, but if you want something bad enough... I have paid them in the past. Just not here, it was on another forum.

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 05-01-2015, 07:04 AM
#13
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I've had people explain to me that the cost of the listing involved time, gas, PayPal, box, fees etc. One guy even explained to me that he picked up an M&F brush from Lee personally so factored in the train ride to get it and the costs incurred.

That's fine if you want to justify a price in your head, but don't tell anyone that.

The overall price should be fair, everything taken into account. If it's too high, it won't sell.

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 05-01-2015, 07:07 AM
#14
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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Common sense, really.

There are costs associated with buying and then re-selling, period.
Sellers should accept and potentially allow for these 'losses' when re-selling items.

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 05-01-2015, 11:28 AM
#15
  • Mr_Smartepants
  • Senior Member
  • Cambridgeshire, UK (CONUS post address)
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(04-30-2015, 09:00 PM)Mr_Smartepants Wrote: Paypal must have changed their fee-rules recently because I sent a buddy some money (friends & family option) and paypal charged ME a fee for the privilege!
Looks like they're taking fees on all transactions now.
They've never done that in the past.

I need to clarify my statement.  Paypal will charge a fee under the friends/family option if you send funds to someone outside your country.
I was using my Paypal-UK account and sent to a buddy in Ireland (yes, outside the UK) so I got hit with the fee.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees
Quote:Sending or receiving money to/from friends and family outside the UK :
A small fee applies to cross-border payments, depending on where the sender and the recipient are based and how the payment is funded.

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 05-01-2015, 01:47 PM
#16
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I made a comment on another forum about the mention of paypal fees in a sellers post and the possible consequences with PayPal etc. His reply 

"No the buyer is not covering my paypal fees... I ment price includes it."

All I could respond was "lol its the same thing!"  Face palmed, and wished him good luck with the sale. I'm still shaking my head lol. 

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 05-01-2015, 08:19 PM
#17
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If I am buying  from someone I know, have bought from before or purchasing an item for a small amount, then I pay via the friends/family option.

If it is a large item from someone I am unfamiliar with, then I use the goods and services.

I have never asked or made a big deal if a buyer on one of my bst postings uses the goods/services. But it isn't my favorite thing to happen to sell something between $20-$30, and then get a deduction from Paypal.

I guess I buy enough stuff off the bst, that I think you can help a bit by what you do as a buyer, not only a seller.

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 05-01-2015, 09:13 PM
#18
  • greyhawk
  • Senior Member
  • Southern California
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Everyone has to make their own choices, but no matter how well I know someone (and trust them), I still do not like to use the "friends" option. It is against the terms of service and deprives PayPal of what I consider to be their rightful fee for providing a service that is valuable to me.

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 05-02-2015, 10:46 AM
#19
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(05-01-2015, 09:13 PM)greyhawk Wrote: Everyone has to make their own choices, but no matter how well I know someone (and trust them), I still do not like to use the "friends" option. It is against the terms of service and deprives PayPal of what I consider to be their rightful fee for providing a service that is valuable to me.
Exactly. It also is there to protest the buyer. If something goes wrong and you use GIFT, you have zero recourse.

I refuse to use and would report anyone asking me to do so.

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