05-27-2015, 03:08 AM
#1
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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I am the fortunate owner of a grand Rooney Finest style 3, size 3 brush but have always felt the handle was a bit too large and clumsy. The knot is a perfect fan shape, 26mm at the base, and set at a loft of 65mm.

[Image: 14447639101_69c219252e_c.jpg]

For some time, I have considered transplanting the knot to a shorter, more ergonomic handle. And as long as the knot is moving to a new handle, I thought it would be nice to set it about 5-10mm deeper for a loft in the 55-60mm range. But the key step in this proposition is safely removing the knot. Can it be done safely? Is it worth the risk?

Enter Doug Korn. A friend (Shanman) recommended him to me as the right guy for this sort of job. I contacted Doug, and he seemed very confident that he could safely extract the knot. I have also been very impressed with the handles he has turned, so off to Doug the 3/3 Finest went.

Yesterday, Doug sent me the information I was anxious to receive: he was able to safely extract the knot from the handle. So what does a fabled size 3 Rooney Finest look like out of its handle?

[Image: 18157165981_d851e91ecc_o.jpg]

I can breathe much easier now, as Doug proceeds to fashion the handle and set the knot. This is an ongoing project, and I will post more when Doug has completed his work.

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 05-27-2015, 04:04 AM
#2
  • MaxP
  • Senior Member
  • Madison, WI
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Your project is of great interest. Thanks for sharing the photos. I can hardly wait to see the completed, transplanted new brush.

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 05-27-2015, 04:06 AM
#3
  • jamesrobson5
  • Chubby Chaser... Big Brush is Best!
  • Sherwood Park AB Canada!
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Very Cool, I can't wait to see how this turns out.

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 05-27-2015, 04:16 AM
#4
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Doug does great work, I've had him transplant two knots for me.  That is a fantastic (no pun intended) knot and can't wait to see the finished product.

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 05-27-2015, 04:36 AM
#5
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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Did this operation require the sacrifice of the handle?

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 05-27-2015, 04:37 AM
#6
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It is a new proposal, I am waiting for the result of this challenge. I will be very pleased to see the results  Wink

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 05-27-2015, 04:55 AM
#7
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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(05-27-2015, 04:36 AM)chamm Wrote: Did this operation require the sacrifice of the handle?

I believe it did. He mentioned using a lathe to extract the knot. No steam or heat was involved in this process.


Andrew

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 05-27-2015, 05:17 AM
#8
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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Very interesting project, have fun and good luck! Can't wait to see what you and Doug come up with! 

** edited.. apologies.. some reason reading off tapatalk I missed the targeted loft dimensions, must have been the deep interest to jumping to the pictures of the extracted knot **

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 05-27-2015, 05:38 AM
#9
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Very very good job  Congrats. im really curious to see that beautiful finest badger knot in a shorter loft size. if we are talking  same finest rooney 3/3 brush that i sold on other forum  to our very own Nathan so its very clear  that why i sold this beauty. This was the perfect brush except the long loft that lee make me .The hair was excellent tips quite great resillience and backbone .im sure it will work perfectly in a great Doug handle with short loft.

But this is very interesting point that i see in this beautiful unique finest badger knot, its almost looks to me ready knot and just glued to the handle so if i know this hint  i can not sell this beauty Smile i can try to take off the knot with Teiste  steam method but sure this method is also have to risk shedding .

i restored and try to take off some T&H brushes made by Rooney and M&F  but their badger hair were directly glued to the handle and there is no way to take off the knot from the handle rather than the Doug lathe method or press drill method but also demage the knot.

On the other hand maybe this finest 3/3  knot also not ready knot just i see the glue on the bottom from the photo that is the glue putting the handle to bring the hair togather.So after the lathe turning and take off the knot it look similar to the ready knots .im really curious to know how the finest knot made so maybe Doug can answer my question ,is this ready knot or hairs are directly glued to the handle ? This answer is very important to the other long loft Rooney Finest owners as well Smile 

Thank you.
Regards.

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 05-27-2015, 06:03 AM
#10
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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I'm the second owner of this Rooney Finest, but it has never appeared on a BST.

Yes, I plan to set the loft lower. The knot measures 74mm in length, out of the handle. I asked Doug to set it in the 55-60mm range.


Andrew

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 05-27-2015, 06:07 AM
#11
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Have you considered keeping the knot and handle together but just adjusting the loft?

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 05-27-2015, 06:19 AM
#12
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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(05-27-2015, 06:07 AM)shevek Wrote: Have you considered keeping the knot and handle together but just adjusting the loft?

The handle was one of the things I didn't like about the brush. And it was sacrificed to extract the knot.


Andrew

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 05-27-2015, 07:10 AM
#13
  • blzrfn
  • Butterscotch Bandit
  • Vancouver USA
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Apparently Lee set these knots very shallow when creating these classics.  With the two pictures provided the top of that glue plug must have been set right at the rim of the handle, a good 5-10mm higher than usual.  If you could have Doug take some high resolution photos of the knot from more angles I would love to see some more pics! 

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 05-27-2015, 07:10 AM
#14
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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(05-27-2015, 05:38 AM)melyus Wrote: I restored and try to take off some T&H brushes made by Rooney and M&F  but their badger hair were directly glued to the handle and there is no way to take off the knot from the handle rather than the Doug lathe method or press drill method but also demage the knot.

On the other hand maybe this finest 3/3  knot also not ready knot just i see the glue on the bottom from the photo that is the glue putting the handle to bring the hair togather.So after the lathe turning and take off the knot it look similar to the ready knots .im really curious to know how the finest knot made so maybe Doug can answer my question ,is this ready knot or hairs are directly glued to the handle ? This answer is very important to the other long loft Rooney Finest owners as well Smile 

I think you and I are having some of the same thoughts about this knot. Seeing it out of the handle somewhat demystifies it. The plug looks like all of the other pre-made knots one can purchase from places like TGN. Don't Shavemac knots look like this out of the handle? So I'm not sure if that reflects on the source or process of manufacture. What I do know is that the knot is a fabulous specimen of Rooney Finest, soon to be even better with a lower loft and a new handle.


Andrew

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 05-27-2015, 07:50 AM
#15
  • pc4406
  • Vintage Shearer
  • San Francisco
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Lee is actually doing the same thing for me with 1/3 that had a loft of 66mm above the collar. He said that the knot was only set at a depth of 5mm, which is way too shallow. The original handle was sacrificed and the knot is now being reset into a Polo handle with an expected loft of 54-56mm.

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 05-27-2015, 08:02 AM
#16
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Wow, Andrew! That is some transplant! It was incredibly insightful, for me, as I have now seen quite a few knots and their glue-plugs and it is a very interesting observation.

Looking forward to seeing the final results and you seem to be as daring as I as I have done quite a few transplants, myself with sacrificing some lovely and iconic handles. Biggrin

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 05-27-2015, 08:23 AM
#17
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Fascinating project. I don't quite understand why a glue plug would indicate that a knot is pre-made from an external source. Isn't it possible that brushmakers like Rooney or Shavemac use glue plugs as part of their internal manufacturing process? 

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 05-27-2015, 09:24 AM
#18
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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Certainly. I have no idea of the significance of a glue plug. Maybe someone does, though.


Andrew

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 05-27-2015, 09:34 AM
#19
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(05-27-2015, 07:10 AM)Andrew Wrote:
(05-27-2015, 05:38 AM)melyus Wrote: I restored and try to take off some T&H brushes made by Rooney and M&F  but their badger hair were directly glued to the handle and there is no way to take off the knot from the handle rather than the Doug lathe method or press drill method but also demage the knot.

On the other hand maybe this finest 3/3  knot also not ready knot just i see the glue on the bottom from the photo that is the glue putting the handle to bring the hair togather.So after the lathe turning and take off the knot it look similar to the ready knots .im really curious to know how the finest knot made so maybe Doug can answer my question ,is this ready knot or hairs are directly glued to the handle ? This answer is very important to the other long loft Rooney Finest owners as well Smile 

I think you and I are having some of the same thoughts about this knot. Seeing it out of the handle somewhat demystifies it. The plug looks like all of the other pre-made knots one can purchase from places like TGN. Don't Shavemac knots look like this out of the handle? So I'm not sure if that reflects on the source or process of manufacture. What I do know is that the knot is a fabulous specimen of Rooney Finest, soon to be even better with a lower loft and a new handle.


Andrew
It looks like a TGN.  Shavemac knots are hand tied and look different.  I know first hand as I transplanted one (or tried).

I believe Ken @ChiefBroom has a pic of an M&F knot that was cross sectioned and is in a thread he started on Glue Bumps.

I'll dig up the pic.

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 05-27-2015, 09:40 AM
#20
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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That'd be great Bruce. I haven't seen a Shavemac knot out of a handle.


Andrew

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