06-01-2015, 07:53 PM
#1
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I've owned only two so far but have not been impressed. The first one was a custom one with a Chinese knot-- it was like a cloud but it was also like a mop at the same time. I found it an unimpressive lather maker. The next was a significantly more expensive Dr. Dittmar 2-band. It has a lot more backbone than the former and equally soft. It is extremely dense. Lather making is just as unimpressive if not worse. It requires a lot of water (the right amount is hard to get right every time), a long loading time, and an endless amount of swirling that makes my wrist ache. 

I started wet shaving 4-5 years ago with a Tweezerman pure badger and it was very easy to lather. I now have a Muhle pure badger and it is just as good a lather-maker as my synthetics. It makes lather near instantly ( a bit of an exaggeration I know, but in comparison to the silvertips), water ratio is easy to figure out, and it is not a floppy mop. I would call it a much pricklier Muhle STF with better water retention.  It is prickly but tolerable for face lathering. For bowl lathering, and then painting the lather, it is excellent. I do notice that these pure badger brushes are no where near as dense as the silvertips, and that is probably why they are so efficient.

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of more silvertip-haters.  Tongue

-UPDATE-


I aquired a Semogue 730 silvertip. The loft is 57mm and the knot is 22mm. I LOVE it. At only $45 it is a bargain also. The $140 Dr. Dittmar 2 band and its molded handle does not compare. The Semogue 730 has much more backbone--about a Semogue 830 BOAR. The handle on the 730 is solid acrylic and more ergonomic. The size and backbone is perfect for me as a face latherer. I got it at the regular density because I feel it really isn't necessary. The high density brushes I've used require more soak time and hold too much water and hog too much product. I just need to submerge this brush and it is ready to go immediately. It generates lather just as quickly as a pure badger without the facial abuse of the latter. Who knows, maybe this brush will actually get me away from my synthetics?

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 06-01-2015, 08:53 PM
#2
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Well, I guess that excludes myself!  I don't think I could ever be without my beloved 2-Band silvertip knots! They are just exceptional. I wish I lived in the US so that I could send you one to try to see if you would have a change of heart!  
Well, the positive aspect of this is that you are saving a great deal of money! Biggrin

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 06-01-2015, 08:59 PM
#3
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I love boar brushes but can't state that I hate Silvertip.  It's a different animal altogether.  Well, OK, it really is a different animal.. Not the point. Smile

I wouldn't trade my Rooney silvertip for the world.  I've used a few silvertips I wasn't a fan of, mostly in the cheaper Chinese realm where there is no guarantee you are getting a great knot.  None that exhibit the issues your having though.  Shedders and the like but nothing that is that picky or doesn't lather well.

Also anyone that really wants to offer me the world for a Rooney.. I would trade it for that. 

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 06-01-2015, 09:09 PM
#4
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(06-01-2015, 08:53 PM)celestino Wrote: Well, the positive aspect of this is that you are saving a great deal of money! Biggrin

Definitely! Now if only I didn't have so many razors... It sometimes feels like people are buying their way into a good shave, my message to newbies is that this is truly not necessary. Price does not always equal to a quality shave in this world. I've used soaps that cost only $10 (Provence Sante) that I feel is far superior in every way to much more expensive soaps (**Cough cough MdC**).

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 06-01-2015, 09:10 PM
#5
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(06-01-2015, 08:59 PM)DeltaEcho Wrote: Also anyone that really wants to offer me the world for a Rooney.. I would trade it for that. 

Biggrin

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 06-01-2015, 09:12 PM
#6
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(06-01-2015, 09:09 PM)fram773 Wrote: Definitely! Now if only I didn't have so many razors... It sometimes feels like people are buying their way into a good shave, my message to newbies is that this is truly not necessary. Price does not always equal to a quality shave in this world. I've used soaps that cost only $10 (Provence Sante) that I feel is far superior in every way to much more expensive soaps (**Cough cough MdC**).

I completely understand and I have always tried recommending inexpensive items to newbies! 
Good luck with your razor addiction and I guess you could always sell a few to try out a TGN Finest 2-Band knot set into a custom all-amber handle! Biggrin

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 06-01-2015, 10:56 PM
#7
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I hate all synthetics (except Chubby 2 synthetic, not tried it, not sure I want to)

I love my badgers.
IMHO you sometimes have to pay to get quality.
You seem to have yet to pay what it costs to get a real high performing badger.
Look at shelling out $125 and up to see and feel what a real badger brush can do....

I have owned 125-150 badgers. My cheapest was $125, I believe.
Now down to 35-38 PRIME BADGERS.

You have to consider loft, knot size, hair type and knot shape before you judge a badger brush.
Once you master these badger brush specifications, you will get badger after badger with stunning performances !

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 06-02-2015, 01:29 AM
#8
  • RobinK
  • I like things that work.
  • Munich, Germany
User Info
Claus is spot on. You get what you pay for. Chinese import knots (or brushes) cost something like US$5-7 if you know how and where to source properly. They retail for much more, but realistically, we are looking at cheap stuff whacked together in sweatshops. To make matters worse, Chinese import knots are typically cut into shape, and sometimes even bleached blonde to make them look more expensive. Think LandWind X7.

So, yes, quality has its price. Most of us have at least one area where they spend more money than they sensibly should. I like to test soaps and creams, and accordingly have a few too many. I still find the variety intriguing. 

Brushes? I really, really couldn't care less. I tried a few (like 50). Then settled for a few high quality silvertip badgers, and gave the rest away to friends and family. 
For me, brushes fall into four basic categories (and I'll blissfully ignore any silvertip badger that costs less than US$100, because they are a complete waste of money in my experience):
  1. Boar: low capital cost, low life expectancy, pedestrian looks after a few uses. Biggest con: extremely low efficiency, ie you pay a lot more for creams and soaps over time than you would with a more efficient brush.
  2. Synthetics: low capital cost, high life expectancy. Biggest con: average efficiency because of bad water retention (yes, even the latest Mühle and Plisson brushes) compared to a badger brush.
  3. Grey badger: medium capital cost, high life expectancy. Biggest con: scratchy.
  4. Silvertip badger: high capital cost, high life expectancy. Biggest con: requires proper care.
From a price/performance perspective, three silvertip badger producers are worth owning: Thäter, then Shavemac and Rooney. While Rooney make brushes that can actually vie with Thäter brushes, they are significantly more expensive, and I personally do not care for fancy handles, or handle materials. Like the one below.
[Image: SOTD_v20130624-0030.jpg]
Overall, though: if a brush is capable of producing lather, use it. Unless you want a luxury item, in which case the three companies I just mentioned are the ones I would recommend. Below is an image the "silvertip" brush most often recommended at another large, blue forum which shall not be named. That's after a few weeks of regular use. The friend who bought it didn't even bother trying to get a refund, but repented and bought another brush instead. Buy in haste, repent at leisure...
[Image: DSC_0059.JPG]
So, hate? I do not get emotional about inanimate objects. I wouldn't mind using a synthetic instead of a badger brush, because synthetics are significantly cheaper and easier to maintain. Unfortunately, it will take the synthetic makers years, if not decades, to match the performance of the highest quality silvertip badgers. So, no hate. Quite the contrary. I enjoy using my badger brushes. But: A well made, recent synthetic will outperform a cheap badger by leaps and bounds. Which is good. Variety is always good.

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 06-02-2015, 03:03 AM
#9
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You don't need a good brush for a BBS.
Just like driving. Handle a TOYOTA car maybe way easier then a Farrari.
But no one hates Farrari.
I have to admit I have a learning curve for silvertips and wander if they worth it.
But I finally found that they worth every penny.

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 06-02-2015, 03:40 AM
#10
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I am used to lathering soaps with a synthetic brush and only recently have found  badgers to perform acceptably well for me.
Which was, looking back strongly dependant on the technique: Not having developed an interface  for badger hair brushes. I still think performance is better with synthetics but a lot depends on what you are used to in the first place: Where you come from. And I cannot really tell which is the best brush. I don´t know if all that 2 band brushes really are that good, at the moment I am into big soft lose knots that just bring the water to the soap and collect the lather; not exactly the brush that gives you a face massage... Smile

Philipp

p.s.:
ah... my technical improvements for silvertip badger brushes, coming from synthetics:
  blooming the soap  and leaving some more water in the brush helped a lot.  Before I was half dry loading  which led to  underloading with pasty soap only on the tips, little inside the brush and little  communication of  water in the brush with the soap. 

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 06-02-2015, 04:18 AM
#11
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(06-01-2015, 07:53 PM)fram773 Wrote: I've owned only two so far but have not been impressed. The first one was a custom one with a Chinese knot-- it was like a cloud but it was also like a mop at the same time. I found it an unimpressive lather maker. The next was a significantly more expensive Dr. Dittmar 2-band. It has a lot more backbone than the former and equally soft. It is extremely dense. Lather making is just as unimpressive if not worse. It requires a lot of water (the right amount is hard to get right every time), a long loading time, and an endless amount of swirling that makes my wrist ache. 

I started wet shaving 4-5 years ago with a Tweezerman pure badger and it was very easy to lather. I now have a Muhle pure badger and it is just as good a lather-maker as my synthetics. It makes lather near instantly ( a bit of an exaggeration I know, but in comparison to the silvertips), water ratio is easy to figure out, and it is not a floppy mop. I would call it a much pricklier Muhle STF with better water retention.  It is prickly but tolerable for face lathering. For bowl lathering, and then painting the lather, it is excellent. I do notice that these pure badger brushes are no where near as dense as the silvertips, and that is probably why they are so efficient.

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of more silvertip-haters.  Tongue
It's too bad that you haven't had a positive experience with Silvertip brushes. This 2 Band Silvertip is the the King in my brush rotation---even eclipsing my Chubby 3 Manchurian. Unfortunately, I will be unable to add to the "hating" here. The brush is just too good. Does it hold a lot of water?  Thumbsup  Does it hold a lot of soap?  Thumbsup Does it feel like you are rubbing a bunny across your face? You betcha.  Thumbup  
[Image: EAmrFnO.png]

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 06-02-2015, 04:19 AM
#12
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(06-01-2015, 10:56 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: I hate all synthetics (except Chubby 2 synthetic, not tried it, not sure I want to)

I love my badgers.
IMHO you sometimes have to pay to get quality.
You seem to have yet to pay what it costs to get a real high performing badger.
Look at shelling out $125 and up to see and feel what a real badger brush can do....

I have owned 125-150 badgers. My cheapest was $125, I believe.
Now down to 35-38 PRIME BADGERS.

You have to consider loft, knot size, hair type and knot shape before you judge a badger brush.
Once you master these badger brush specifications, you will get badger after badger with stunning performances !

Claus,
With your vast product experience, to NOT try a CH2 Synthetic would be illogical. 

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 06-02-2015, 04:23 AM
#13
  • jtmke
  • Ex shaving hater
  • milwaukee
User Info
I am firmly in the loving silvertip camp. I started with a Thater and am on a quest to try a bunch of brushes of different makers before settling on 7 or so. Of the 40 brushes I have purchased the only ones I seem to enjoy are silvertips. Two bands are nice but I lean toward three bands both dense and not so dense. 

The brushes that have impressed me may not be others favorites but they are the ones I enjoy. 
Floppy soft
Vulfix 377 in silvertip (not inferior super of the Vulfix line)
Kent bk4. I like the 8 and 12 but the little monster bk4 is the favorite

Medium backbone 
Simpson chubby 1 in super. Again I like the 2 and 3 but the 1 is in the favorite list 
Thater 4125/2 26mm of great silvertip softness with some backbone

Lots of backbone
Shavemac expert 24mm d01
Vie Long two band both of these are super soft but can grind at a puck of soap like a new boar. 

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 06-02-2015, 04:26 AM
#14
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Nope.  I use Silvertip probably 7/10 shaves, two-band 2/10 and boar 1/10.

A good silvertip will lather and release with ease and be ultra soft.

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 06-02-2015, 04:31 AM
#15
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Rubbing a bunny across your face....I about fell out of my chair  Laughing1

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 06-02-2015, 05:07 AM
#16
  • BobH
  • Senior Member
  • Thunder Bay Canada
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I have to say than I have no experience using a pure badger brush. I do use various silver tip badger brushes, boar brushes and synthetic brushes all of which easily produce a good lather for me. I think it is a matter of adjusting your technique to the type of knot that you are using. Can't say I hate any of the brushes I have in use. Nor can I say I agree that you have to pay a fortune for a shave brush that does the job well either. You use what you like and works for you price be damned. You do not have to like or enjoy using high end costly badger brushes just because someone else highly touts them.

Bob

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 06-02-2015, 06:49 AM
#17
  • kwsher
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX - USA
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I have a silvertip Rooney that I absolutely love. I also have a Simpson Chubby 2 that I love. And a Semogue boar. And a TGC synthetic, etc...

Tongue in cheek but I appreciate them all for their unique qualities and use one or the other depending on what it is I am looking for in the day's shave. They all produce great lather, they all are valued additions to my gear (really becoming more of a collection I suppose).

I do agree that you both get what you pay for but don't necessarily need to spend a ton to get a very serviceable brush, razor, soap, etc. I very much like that Semogue 1305 and it is less than $20!

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 06-02-2015, 08:04 AM
#18
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Bayside, NY
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Can't say I'm a hater of any natural fiber. I own, use and get great lather from silvertip, boar and pure badger. Boarse makes me work harder but it's still do-able. (Forgive the temporary hijack: my only experience with synth is with one Omega. No matter what, my reaction is always the same; ugh. I'll likely never spend another penny on a synth brush.) I do want to try another high end badger.

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 06-02-2015, 08:42 AM
#19
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(06-02-2015, 08:04 AM)chazt Wrote: Can't say I'm a hater of any natural fiber. I own, use and get great lather from silvertip, boar and pure badger. Boarse makes me work harder but it's still do-able. (Forgive the temporary hijack: my only experience with synth is with one Omega. No matter what, my reaction is always the same; ugh. I'll likely never spend another penny on a synth brush.) I do want to try another high end badger.

Those where exactly my same thoughts when I bought a Parker synthetic. Then I was gifted a HIS synthetic. Woah! I then got a Muhle Black Fiber, Muhle STF v2 21mm, Plisson synthetic, Muhle STF v2 23mm. If far prefer them over any natural.

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 06-02-2015, 08:46 AM
#20
  • blzrfn
  • Butterscotch Bandit
  • Vancouver USA
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I too hate Silvertips, and 2-bands for that matter.  They have both cost me several thousands of dollars and all that they have given me in return is shaving zen. 

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