06-20-2015, 11:22 AM
#21
  • kwsher
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX - USA
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Agreed in the thanks to the mods for their willingness to assume a thankless job. We should self police but of course at times are not capable and definitely appreciate all you do to keep the forum and community both on point and civil!

Cheers,

Kevin

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 06-20-2015, 12:17 PM
#22
  • Johnny
  • MODERATOR EMERITUS
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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Sometimes members see things that we don't.  There is a report button on each post or you can always send one of the Moderators or Administrators a PM referencing the thread/post in question.

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 06-20-2015, 12:37 PM
#23
  • Hanzo
  • Senior Member
  • Oakland, California
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(06-20-2015, 01:39 AM)fram773 Wrote:
(06-19-2015, 10:15 PM)Hanzo Wrote:
(06-19-2015, 05:19 PM)fram773 Wrote: Every wet shaving forum has shills, the only one that I know that doesn't is the Original Safety Too and only because it is so small. Or really any forum where there is a commercial interest. Take it as a sign TSN is experiencing good growth. keep up the good work moderating.

If you go back on all the forums say 5 years ago, shilling and fan boyism were not BIG issues at all. They have become so because of the proliferation of commercialism in shaving  , so many people competing to sell and using any means to do so.

Its to me not a sign of good growth though but a negative change, that compared with the past life of the forums , is really off putting. Years back if vendors or artisans might post on a forum it didn't involve the hard sell of items as they were wet shaving hobbyists themselves, it was a member turning his hobby into a paying side line . Now it seems a soap maker per se can see the forums as a place to sell a product, they are not necessarily interested in wet shaving. Organized militant fan boys didn't exist on the forums at one time and you could trust that a poster even if you didn't agree with him was honest .

Its good the negative changes are being spoken about and addressed , it can only keep the hobby fun.

I couldn't agree with you more. That was also around the time I began wetshaving. Back in the day you could pick up a minty DE for $20, and the "artisan" community was just Mama Bear and a couple other melt and pours.

with the increasing age of the wet shaving forums I've noticed some people start to come in that are also clearly mentally ill and derive all their self worth from their obsession. Some of these individuals can be the biggest fanboys of all, and they don't do this with a nefarious commercial intent.

it feels good to reminisce about the good old days but at least with this growth there is more variety and little danger of the shavepocalipse. Lets remember that many of us made large efforts to "convert" people like this was a cult or something, so it is largely our fault.

Being the only bidder on a cheap NOS razor, waiting for Mantic's next video to drop, group buys for exotic products like Alt Innsbruck, ahh those were the days. lol

I think though that fan boys have a first loyalty to the artisan , franchise and brand rather than to a forum or its members. As champions of the brand they are not going to be honest about the product because they are hawking for the artisan for some reason. Deception, dishonesty and manipulation are the way fan boys work and is a far cry from just that crazy guy thinking his favorite soap is the innovative best , why can't you see that. lol

Are fan boys just an alien enemy? Can we all become fan boys? Yep.  Wet shaving is a pleasure for us, where there's pleasure there is the possibility of excess , what we call passion. We come to like a product too much. We stock pile  it, never want to be without it , argue with others about its merits . We identify the product with the maker and say " Frank is a great guy, he makes a great product. This pleasure makes us lose all objectivity and reason, the ability to weigh all sides evenly. Then we are arguing with others over the product or championing it against others.

Ravi calls for etiquette . How we should behave and it should focus our minds on being reasonable and objective about our relationship to our wet shaving hobby and mindful about how we interact with others on the forum. That way we don't become unwitting fan boys or shills ourselves.

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 06-20-2015, 02:26 PM
#24
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(06-20-2015, 10:31 AM)chazt Wrote:
(06-19-2015, 07:34 PM)SharpSpine Wrote: I'm glad to not know why this post was necessary. 

Shave On!

I agree. This isn't the first time I've been befuddled by similar sentiments. Still a relative newb, I'm here to enjoy the non-shaving aspects of shaving, namely, good conversation and exchange of ideas and information.

Thank You to all the fine folks who contribute to making TSN relaxed, interesting, informative and fun. It's the only shave related forum in which I care to participate.

+1


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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 06-20-2015, 02:38 PM
#25
  • kwsher
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX - USA
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(06-20-2015, 12:17 PM)Johnny Wrote: Sometimes members see things that we don't.  There is a report button on each post or you can always send one of the Moderators or Administrators a PM referencing the thread/post in question.

Good point Johnny - I was actually thinking that, although most if not all are adults, that we may not all act that way at times. Particularly online.  

Thanks much for all your contributions as well as the others for making TSN a nice place to connect.

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 06-21-2015, 12:03 AM
#26
  • rzedan
  • Member
  • Vancouver, Canada
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Thank you guys for your vigilance and effort put into this wonderful community!



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 06-21-2015, 05:24 AM
#27
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I too think that the need to speak about behavior and etiquette is a sign of growth of ShaveNook and wet shaving itself.

I'm intrigued by the fanboy phenomenon that has occurred the past few years.  As I understand it the term came out of the gaming world and was meant as an insult describing someone who was obsessed or fixated on one game.  Certainly many of us have soaps or other component of wet shaving, that we strongly like while others may not share our appreciation.  Ditto for other folks loving a soap that we just don't care for.  

For me the line between fan and fanboy comes down to do we limit ourselves to not trying other products because we've become convinced that we've discovered the Alpha-Omega, end all and be all product.  I particularly think of newbies who have been sucked into following a particular artisan on facebook or reddit and have never tried any of the old standards such as MWF, Tabac, Cella, D.R. Harris etc. etc.

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 06-21-2015, 02:41 PM
#28
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(06-20-2015, 07:50 AM)dodger Wrote: Hiya,

You guys run a good forum. I understand the atmosphere being provided here and TSN seems successful, which is nice to see. Not exactly my kinda place though, so I hang out mostly elsewhere. We all sink to our own level......heh.

So regarding shills......my basic definition is someone who artificially inflates the worth or performance of a product and done for personal gain.That sound about right?  If so, I can't recall seeing much of that anywhere, or at least not for long. Most members are too smart to fall for that sorta crap, and I do see the Mods act aggressively on some forums when it does happen.

What is a 'fanboy'? Is that someone who emphatically and often talks up a product he honestly likes? If that's the case, what's the problem? If certain companies benefit along with the members because of good reviews then wonderful.  I really don't know what the negative part is, unless I'm missing something.

One thing that happens in all forums is guys getting screwed by another member. Nothing you would see in any posts about the issues till it had spread pretty good. This is because members are trusting and willing to give a break to another person in the 'club'. I would bet that's going on right now in some way. Or maybe I am just cynical from having seen it before in various places.

Ok, I am done,

Martin

I agree with you, Martin.  I'm not understanding the problems moderators or SN have with "fanboys".  Most everyone gets excited about a particular razor or soap every now and then, especially when starting out with wet shaving.  What else do members post about?  What's the purpose of a shaving forum?  You could write a comprehensive book about  wet shaving and leave it at that or you can have a place where people connect, explain their experiences and maybe even educate how to do or make shaving items or products.  The writer of the book, "The Leisure Man's Guide to Shaving" was banned here for talking about a product he used.  He talks about his experiences with lots of products in his blog.  His book brought many people to this and other forums.

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 06-21-2015, 03:08 PM
#29
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TSN has many fanboys of products, just as every other forum does, shaving and any other topic. I don't believe any of them are schills or have altier motives.

What I would like to see in Reviews is declare if the item was purchased, donated, comp'd or asked to be done. I've seen a few timely reviews and then product announcements that peaked my suspicion as to their validity. I've was asked to write a review from vendor after they saw I used their product, I refused as I didn't think it was appropriate. If I ever receive a free product, I always disclose it.

The Mods deal with a lot of shenanigans and it's not a job I'd want. Many forums are vendor sponsored, run and privately owned, so they can set the rules as they see fit.

If people see something that looks funny, use the Report Button as Johnny said.

Thanks to all the mods and admins who take time out of their lives to run the forum and keep it civil.

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 06-21-2015, 06:14 PM
#30
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In my experience everyone has done a nice job on the forum keeping everything moving along in a gentlemenly like manor. At times there are a few instances where the op's advice could be used , thank you for your words on this matter.

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 07-05-2015, 01:06 AM
#31
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I like to think largely this forum is more than well moderated and and most of the moderators are very good and are doing a fine job, my only real beef and it's happened to me is on the BST section is when a non moderator forum member posts a comment on your post thinking they can moderate your post, as someone did when I offered up a camera for sale, well you tell me what would any shaving forum look like without photo's ?

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 07-10-2015, 06:31 PM
#32
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Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk

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 07-10-2015, 06:38 PM
#33
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(06-21-2015, 03:08 PM)Bruce Wrote: TSN has many fanboys of products, just as every other forum does, shaving and any other topic.  I don't believe any of them are schills or have altier motives.

What I would like to see in Reviews is declare if the item was purchased, donated, comp'd or asked to be done. I've seen a few timely reviews and then product announcements that peaked my suspicion as to their validity.  I've was asked to write a review from vendor after they saw I used their product, I refused as I didn't think it was appropriate.  If I ever receive a free product, I always disclose it.

The Mods deal with a lot of shenanigans and it's not a job I'd want.  Many forums are vendor sponsored, run and privately owned, so they can set the rules as they see fit.

If people see something that looks funny, use the Report Button as Johnny said.

Thanks to all the mods and admins who take time out of their lives to run the forum and keep it civil.

I used it on you and didn't work, go figure....................





Tongue

I love TSN and I hope it remains a cool place.

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 07-10-2015, 09:41 PM
#34
  • kav
  • Banned
  • east of the sun,west of the moon
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I was once accused via PM of shilling for Phil on SMF. It was insulting, because Phil has shown me considerable kindness for far to little customer activity on my part. My antagonist almost immediately vanished from the forum and either slit his throat, joined a monastic order requiring beards or changed his online persona after my stream of consciousness withering reply. I like to think it was the first.
The growth in products is a pleasure and a problem. I have witnessed, and been involved in several pursuits that also saw phenomenal growth with the same inherent issues. Eventually, simple attrition sees an inevitable implosion to a somewhat smaller, more stable community. We also must remember everyone has a life outside of the 15 minutes of shaving, 2 hours of shaving kit maintenance, 2 hours of ordering new products and 6 hours posting on the forum. We
have bad days, miscommunicate on a very awkward communication medium with people with different languages, cultures and personal histories.
Given all this, it's amazing we can still come here and get more involved over posts about an act of personal grooming
VS forums discussing the future of humanity, Lizard People Conspiracies and collecting PEZ containers.

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 07-11-2015, 02:52 PM
#35
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Those PEZ containers just might be the downfall of modern civilization!  Biggrin

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 07-11-2015, 03:35 PM
#36
  • eengler
  • Administrator
  • South Dakota, USA
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(07-11-2015, 02:52 PM)celestino Wrote: Those PEZ containers just might be the downfall of modern civilization!  Biggrin
When the candy is gone I'm sad...That kind of downfall?Smile

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 07-12-2015, 02:12 PM
#37
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(07-11-2015, 03:35 PM)eengler Wrote:
(07-11-2015, 02:52 PM)celestino Wrote: Those PEZ containers just might be the downfall of modern civilization!  Biggrin
When the candy is gone I'm sad...That kind of downfall?Smile

I am not sure, Ed, as I don't eat the candy and haven't had a PEZ dispenser in years! I guess we'll see what happens.   Biggrin

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 08-13-2015, 04:50 PM
#38
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(07-10-2015, 09:41 PM)kav Wrote: I was once accused via PM of shilling for Phil on SMF. It was insulting, because Phil has shown me considerable kindness for far to little customer activity on my part. My antagonist almost immediately vanished from the forum and either slit his throat, joined a monastic order requiring beards or changed his online persona after my stream of consciousness withering reply. I like to think it was the first.
The growth in products is a pleasure and a problem. I have witnessed, and been involved in several pursuits that also saw phenomenal growth with the same inherent issues. Eventually, simple attrition sees an inevitable implosion to a somewhat smaller, more stable community. We also must remember everyone has a life outside of the 15 minutes of shaving, 2 hours of shaving kit maintenance, 2 hours of ordering new products and 6 hours posting on the forum. We
have bad days, miscommunicate on a very awkward communication medium with people with different languages, cultures and personal histories.
Given all this, it's amazing we can still come here and get more involved over posts about an act of personal grooming
VS forums discussing the future of humanity, Lizard People Conspiracies and collecting PEZ containers.

The way I look at it, its impossible to shill for a guy like Phil who breaks his back to make every order a sheer pleasure. I also suspect your accuser was himself an actual shill.

Brooke

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 08-13-2015, 05:15 PM
#39
  • Scoti
  • Member
  • Ontario, Canada
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This forum is great. Very nice place to be. I however am not afraid to voice my opinion no matter what and it may rub some people the wrong way. It's not my intention but I love this place as long as you get to voice your opinion and you don't get banned for doing it.

As an example I've seen people get banned other places for protesting an idea.. or speaking out against a product..
I hope this doesn't happen here but I'll have to stick around to find out.

Nice to know the mods and admins are here to sort things out.

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 08-13-2015, 06:01 PM
#40
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(08-13-2015, 05:15 PM)Scoti Wrote: This forum is great. Very nice place to be. I however  am not afraid to voice my opinion no matter what and it may rub some people the wrong way. It's not my intention but I love this place as long as you get to voice your opinion and you  don't get banned for doing it.

As an example I've seen people get banned other places for protesting an idea.. or speaking out against a product..
I hope this doesn't happen here but I'll have to stick around to find out.

Nice to know the mods and admins are here to sort things out.

I think is all about delivery.  I'm the same way, but I have actually decided to avoid confrontation and just move on.  My life is outside the confinements of the Internet.  I come here to read and share the hobby aspect of it with the few friends I have.  I'm here to have a good time with the people that care for me, those who don't, why even bother.

So far the Nook has been a great place for me.

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