06-30-2015, 08:46 PM
#1
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I would like to hone all my own stuff at some point and figured now is the time to invest in some starter stones to get the feel of things and gain experience. I bought the 3 piece Norton set I believe it's described as 220/1000 , 4k/8k and a surface prep stone. I also added a Nani 12 k for when I'm confident in my 8k edge to progress on to. Just wondering what everyone here uses , don't use. Are pastes or sprays worth going to after the stones? I was considering getting a modular strop at some point for the spray progression but we will start out learning stones for now. Thanks gents any advice is appreciated , I own Lynn's DVD and will be watching the techniques daily for a bit I'm sure.

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 06-30-2015, 09:10 PM
#2
  • Hanzo
  • Senior Member
  • Oakland, California
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I think consensus is that the Naniwa Chosera 1k is the best bevel setter, its a different Naniwa system name now. Some have said the Norton 1000 is  very abrasive and therefore can  promote hone wear with heavy use, but I've never tried one.

The Norton 4k/8k is the work horse of straight razor shaving, it was, before the coming of fancier honing systems the hone every one started with. I don't think you can go wrong with it.


The Naniwa 12k is by all accounts a very excellent finisher, good buy there.

The Modular paddle strop is a good deal. It has a smooth leather component, scrub leather component that's used before the smooth one and two felt pads , one for diamond spray that comes with the strop set and the other which can be for Chromium Oxide, which can be bought separately in spray form from SRD or as a crayon they sell as well.


I believe you are very close to what Lynn uses for commercial honing. I believe he mentioned he used the Chosera 1k, Norton 4/8k and  Naniwa 12k for a good portion of the honing he does for others.


I believe you can work with what you have to try your hand at honing. When you hone you are just using the 1k to set the bevel, 4/8k to sharpen and polish and the 12k for the final polish. The sprays are used afterwards to further sharpen and polish. They are of a higher grit I believe up to 30K. Then stropping .

More so than Lynn's video, his youtube videos on honing and stropping will teach you  more when it comes to honing. Its very easy to follow his particular style of honing and duplicate it yourself. I've done this and probably thousands of others.

Now I am not a fully competent hone guy , still learning myself, so take my views with a grain of salt.

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 06-30-2015, 09:26 PM
#3
  • Snuff
  • Senior Member
  • Belgium
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Like Hanzo said your set is completely capable of taking a razor from bevel setting to shave ready, it only takes practice.

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 06-30-2015, 10:09 PM
#4
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I learned the fundamentals of honing on a Norton 1-3-8 set and still have those stones today. They are a very good tool to learn on and will serve you well.
I liked what you said about learning to use the Norton set before moving on to the Naniwa 12K, my honing mentors strongly suggested that I be fully competent & consistent at finishing razors at the 8K level before moving to other finishing stones.
The only things I would add to your kit would be to purchase a DMT 325 for lapping your stones with and a high quality strop with a genuine flax linen second component.

I would strongly urge you to get with a honing mentor so as to get started off correctly, this will supper charge your learning curve and lessen your frustration.

If you want to be a better honer, hone a hundred more edges!

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 06-30-2015, 10:18 PM
#5
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I purchased a srw strop that I will keep as is and will likely add the SRD modular for spray progression. I believe I purchased Nani 220 lapping plate , is the dmt the way to go?

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 07-01-2015, 04:27 AM
#6
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So I read into the dmt 325 and decided to pick that up as well, some are saying the Nani is for cleaning stones off as opposed to lapping. I ended up swapping out the Norton 3 piece set for a chosera 1k , and stuck with the Norton 4/8k combo. So the setup so far is.

Nani chosera 1k
Norton 4/8k combo
Nani 12k
Srw strop
I'll be picking up a modular strop for sprays as well.

Does everyone use a jewelers loop to inspect the edge?

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 07-01-2015, 04:37 AM
#7
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You should have gone with the Naniwa 1K 5K 8K 12K, you could get good results with your progression but I think you would have been better served with the whole Naniwa range in your lineup.

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 07-01-2015, 05:05 AM
#8
  • BobH
  • Senior Member
  • Thunder Bay Canada
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Good move picking up a DMT 325 for lapping your hones with. Be aware that some DMT 325s can have some high diamonds that may leave scratches on a hone in first use. If that happens you will need to dress the plate to knock them down. No biggie just something to keep in mind.

I agree with Jamie's comments on having an all Naniwa progression. I do not have a Norton but iirc they should be soaked in water prior to use which is not recommended in the case of the Naniwas which you merely wet the surface of before use. Again, not a biggie but should be kept in mind.

If you are lucky enough to have an experienced honer close by be sure and try and get some one on one with them. It will greatly help in reducing the learning curve. This is especially so in learning how to deal with blades that have a warp/twist in them which is surprisingly common.

Bob

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 07-01-2015, 05:18 AM
#9
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Manymany ways to skin a cat. Biggrin

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 07-01-2015, 06:12 AM
#10
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I'll stick with the Norton stones for a bit , if my skills progress and I see the need to upgrade I certainly will. The main thing I was focused on with this initial setup was to have a nice polishing stone for my razors that already came professionally honed, and to pick up a few budget friendly stones to learn how to hone my own razors. Honestly I will probably practice on my gold dollar over and over until I can get consistent acceptable shaves from the 8k. At that point I'll move on to the 12k and most likely around then I might add the Nani stones into my progression and keep the Norton stuff around for other uses. If I reach this point ( when Wink ) most likely I would have to reward myself with a NOS vintage of some sort and put a edge on it.

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 07-01-2015, 06:21 AM
#11
  • geezer
  • Senior Member
  • Menomonie, Western WI
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The Norton's have a tremendous amount of folks using them and so you have a lot of folks to ask questions of. Again, find a hone person nearby to you and one with a good many meaningful post on line here and elsewhere. That can save you a lot of time. And, go back to them when all is not roses at home honing! Some of the simple things are often overlooked during instructions or not emphasized; and so are not remembered at home.
Slow and easy does it!
If at first you do not succeed; you are just about average!
~Richard

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 07-01-2015, 06:33 AM
#12
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The key to maximum sharpness on anything with and edge IMO is learning how to get the maximum sharpness out of minimum grit. Most people when sharpness is not up to par they go to a higher grit , higher grit and IMO this is wrong. Like the op said stop at 8k until you get your technique down them move to 12k+.

I also think you made a wise choice trading in your Norton for a naniwa"professional " formely known as chosera. All naniwa stones have the same abrasive in them only different binders with makes the chosera more expensive than a superstone.

Find Ken swartz, not sure on spelling however he is the distrubor of nubatama stones from Japan to the US. His products are on chefknuvestogo.com Ken is a stone genius, has honed a straight up to 120,000 grit using his diamonds emulsions. BTW Ken has some of the best diamond spray you can get down to 120,000 grit last time I checked, and he's a super cool guy to deal with. Ken also used to be with Jendi industries but not sure if they went there seperate ways .

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 07-01-2015, 06:36 AM
#13
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(07-01-2015, 06:12 AM)ultra~nova Wrote: I'll stick with the Norton stones for a bit , if my skills progress and I see the need to upgrade I certainly will. The main thing I was focused on with this initial setup was to have a nice polishing stone for my razors that already came professionally honed, and to pick up a few budget friendly stones to learn how to hone my own razors. Honestly I will probably practice on my gold dollar over and over until I can get consistent acceptable shaves from the 8k. At that point I'll move on to the 12k and most likely around then I might add the Nani stones into my progression and keep the Norton stuff around for other uses. If I reach this point ( when Wink ) most likely I would have to reward myself with a NOS vintage of some sort and put a edge on it.

When it comes to your higher grit stones there are a lot of diamonds in the rough. Instead of spending a ridiculous amount on a chosera 10k the snow white is a naniwa hone. Suehro Rika also makes a good hone at the higher grits as well.

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 07-01-2015, 07:12 AM
#14
  • Hanzo
  • Senior Member
  • Oakland, California
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(07-01-2015, 04:37 AM)Jamie Mahoney Wrote: You should have gone with the Naniwa 1K 5K 8K 12K, you could get good results with your progression but I think you would have been better served with the whole Naniwa range in your lineup.

You know as a honing amateur I know from experience you are right. The Naniwa system seems like the easiest to learn with and I think that all those new to honing can insure some success starting with this set up.

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 07-01-2015, 07:38 AM
#15
  • Hanzo
  • Senior Member
  • Oakland, California
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(07-01-2015, 06:12 AM)ultra~nova Wrote: I'll stick with the Norton stones for a bit , if my skills progress and I see the need to upgrade I certainly will. The main thing I was focused on with this initial setup was to have a nice polishing stone for my razors that already came professionally honed, and to pick up a few budget friendly stones to learn how to hone my own razors. Honestly I will probably practice on my gold dollar over and over until I can get consistent acceptable shaves from the 8k. At that point I'll move on to the 12k and most likely around then I might add the Nani stones into my progression and keep the Norton stuff around for other uses. If I reach this point ( when Wink ) most likely I would have to reward myself with a NOS vintage of some sort and put a edge on it.

To refresh your razors you can use the 12k or simply buy  Chromium Oxide and paste the linen component of your existing strop and refresh, its very effective. You don't need the modular strop yet in order to simply refresh.

Lynn offers good advice on how to effectively lap the Norton 4/8k combination.

A hone stone holder will be helpful to hold your Naniwa and that heavy a$$ DMT stone .

In accepting advice or suggestions on gear I think staying simple is key. Adopting the honing regimens of others can impede an understanding of the way to go about it and lead to confusion and frustrations. I've found those who hone have a tendency to complicate things mightily and this can hurt the beginner.

I have found the ideas of Lynn Abrams, Glen Mercurio , Neill Miller helpful in learning, they show what works in practice consistently and cut through all the hocus pocus to get to the necessary.

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 07-01-2015, 07:42 AM
#16
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(07-01-2015, 06:33 AM)Otis375 Wrote: The key to maximum sharpness on anything with and edge IMO is learning how to get the maximum sharpness out of minimum grit. Most people when sharpness is not up to par they go to a higher grit , higher grit and IMO this is wrong. Like the op said stop at 8k until you get your technique down them move to 12k+.
Nice!! Maybe even 3 or 5 k is a good starter. Lynn Abrams is a good source, two thumbs up on that DVD he already has. I love the video Lynn put out on single hone sharpening... it´s on youtube
BTW

On "Do I use them correctly"
Here is a pocket microscope to give you feedback on the edge obtained by sharpening!
There is a commonly known Radioshack version, here is the amazon link. Took me some searching to find ito find the same here in Europe...
http://www.amazon.com/Carson-60X-100X-Mi...B000P8AUMU
You can see the actual edge with or without burr, smooth or not.  It needs to get used to as it is all upside down.

Philipp

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 07-01-2015, 08:00 AM
#17
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I'll be picking that up for sure thanks for the link!

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 07-03-2015, 02:47 PM
#18
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Complete change of plans on this one gents, in the mail we have a paddle strop of chrom ox and .25 diamond sprays. Srw strop showed up today and wow is that nice. I'm going to pick up a coticule and a chosera 1k for the time being. I liked the idea of a natural stone finish and the one stone progression seemed like a fun challenge.

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 07-03-2015, 03:01 PM
#19
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What kind of grit does the Coticule work out to be?

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 07-03-2015, 03:54 PM
#20
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Oh man, coticules are one of the least beginner-friendly stones I've tried.  I was already at a point where I could hit HHT5 with absolutely anything on synthetics when I first tried one.  Almost threw it out.  Took about 3 months before I finally got the "coticule edge" the first time.

Coticules don't really go by grit, they "polish" edges rather than cut the steel.  I'm sure that you could potentially hit 8-10k equivalence, possibly more with oil or soap or something, but you probably don't need to.  Coticules aren't about being sharp, they're about a smooth, extremely comfortable shave.  If you have tougher skin, or prefer more "aggressive" shaves, a coticule might be the wrong direction to go, but if you like having a lot of control over the razor's cutting or have more sensitive skin a coticule is a wonderful choice.  One that will make you hate honing at first.

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