07-02-2015, 05:30 PM
#1
  • carvelo
  • Active Member
  • Puerto Rico
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I would like to know why Razorock soaps are so cheap in comparison with other artisanal and mass production soaps.  I had bad experiences with artisanal soaps (US). I don't know if this italinan soap is really good. I'm not a newbie. I just did stick to traditional hard puck soaps over the years.

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 07-02-2015, 05:33 PM
#2
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Compared with what other artisan and commercial soaps? It is cheaper then some, but not all.

Most of them are minimal packaged, possibly made by larger corporations for RR and branded for them. Some of the Artisan soaps you see that cost more, probably make them in house and have to fund the machines and time to make them and only sell soaps/creams.

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 07-03-2015, 12:49 AM
#3
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Soap is cheap, has always been that way  !  Smile

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 07-03-2015, 02:40 AM
#4
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(07-03-2015, 12:49 AM)Bibbelmann Wrote: Soap is cheap, has always been that way  !  Smile

Biggrin

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 07-03-2015, 03:56 AM
#5
  • RobinK
  • I like things that work.
  • Munich, Germany
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Bollocks. Everything from basic ingredients to scented oils can be had ranging from dirt cheap (and probably involving child slave labour in Asia) to extremely expensive (bio organic sustainable new age nonsense). 

RazoRock appears to be mass made. Judging from its ready availability, everything hints at industrial production facilities, allowing for economies of scale. Additionally, the scents are, mildly put, plebeian, so you don't have to pay for high quality scented oils, either. Overall, a product line whose popularity has always struck me as curious, but one should never underestimate the guerilla marketing power of certain people.

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 07-03-2015, 04:05 AM
#6
  • Coyote
  • Senior Member
  • Hondo, TX USA
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According to RazoRock, all of their soaps are currently artisan made and not from large mass production facilities? This is one of the reasons many of them go out of stock for a while................

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 07-03-2015, 04:12 AM
#7
  • RobinK
  • I like things that work.
  • Munich, Germany
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  1. Definition of artisan: "A skilled worker who makes things by hand."
  2. RazoRock's claim: "RazoRock shaving soaps are made in Italy by a legendary Italian artisan, using a special old-world formulation."
  3. RazoRock availability: CONUS, CAN, eBay, Amazon...

So: Single individual, manufacture, massive availability. Pick two.

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 07-03-2015, 04:24 AM
#8
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There are  numbers of very inexpensive manufacturers with longlasting experience, in Italy. Vitos, Cella, TFS, Ciba laboratories. You could contrast this with some the French soap and perfume iindustry. 
 

Why is soap a big deal? Because money can be made with it.

The word is: inexpensive ingredients. The price for ingredients is online, everbody can check it out

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 07-03-2015, 04:32 AM
#9
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(07-03-2015, 03:56 AM)RobinK Wrote: RazoRock appears to be mass made. Judging from its ready availability, everything hints at industrial production facilities, allowing for economies of scale....

Aside from the new SMdF, my guess is the majority of the other soaps are made by TFS.  I don't have a guess on their AS's as I don't have enough experience with RR AS's or any AS's for that matter.  All indications I see, point to TFS as their Soap maker.

(07-03-2015, 04:12 AM)RobinK Wrote:
  1. Definition of artisan: "A skilled worker who makes things by hand."
  2. RazoRock's claim: "RazoRock shaving soaps are made in Italy by a legendary Italian artisan, using a special old-world formulation."
  3. RazoRock availability: CONUS, CAN, eBay, Amazon...

So: Single individual, manufacture, massive availability. Pick two.


Your Point 1 is the one that always stands out for me in defining an Artisan.  Many of the RR soaps are brought in, in batches of hundreds or even a thousand units when you would check stock levels.  It may be an Artisan Soap Formula or maybe an Artisan overseas the operation, but I don't believe any are made by hand in by a single worker.

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 07-03-2015, 04:37 AM
#10
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I have a honeysuckle soap that looks like it is made by Cella (packaging). They really do source from a few vendors, I think, if not many. There is something about that TFS theory though. However-

What strikes me is that in Italy there are quite a few products that can be bought inexpensively, especially in wholesale. I am not here to state that a Figaro soap by TFS is the same as any other soap on the market at a two USD price in Italy, but the principle of buying and selling large quantities and selling without the middle men cuts down prices effectively.


Above is there is the claim that the amount of soap could not be produce by individuals in an artisanal way... well.  Of course it can

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 07-03-2015, 04:40 AM
#11
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(07-03-2015, 04:37 AM)Bibbelmann Wrote: Not only TFS.

Above is there is the claim that the amount of soap could not be produce by individuals in an artisanal way... well.  Of course, no big deal

The old ones were definitely not, they were rumored to be the same maker as Figaro.  Every RR soap I see now and since the "La Famiglia" lign, visually and ingredient wise, looks like it was dispensed from the TFS machines.

I have no proof and these are just my guesses.

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 07-03-2015, 05:07 AM
#12
  • Coyote
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  • Hondo, TX USA
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Some of the old ones were made by folks like TFS, but no longer. You can find out more by doing some searching. They wanted to go all artisan.............

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 07-03-2015, 05:12 AM
#13
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(07-03-2015, 05:07 AM)Coyote Wrote: Some of the old ones were made by folks like TFS, but no longer. You can find out more by doing some searching. They wanted to go all artisan.............

You can't believe everything you read on the internet. 

To be honest, I don't care if they are made by an 80y old Italy guy in his home or made in the factory of TFS, so long as I enjoy them.    But I do think the word "artisan" is used loosely here and with other products.

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 07-03-2015, 05:20 AM
#14
  • Agravic
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  • Pennsylvania, USA
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Kinda like 'artisanal' bread at a fast food franchise, huh?

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 07-03-2015, 05:34 AM
#15
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(07-03-2015, 05:20 AM)Agravic Wrote: Kinda like 'artisanal' bread at a fast food franchise, huh?

+1. One of my hats was worn in the baking industry. We made the product for Walmart, Albertsons, Kroger, etc. You would be surprised how many French, Italian, Jewish Rye, etc. we're labeled as "artisan".  Rolleyes

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 07-03-2015, 08:02 AM
#16
  • blzrfn
  • Butterscotch Bandit
  • Vancouver USA
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Something that is artisan made does not have a limit to the production.  An artisan coffee roaster could roast small batches on a 1 kilo roaster to dial in the roast and then repeat the process on a large batch roaster capable of over 480 kilos at a time.  Both machines offer the control needed and the artisan still manipulates the heat and airflow to reach the desired result.  At the end the coffee that comes out of each roaster tastes, smells and looks exactly the same.  Now this is an example from another industry, but I think it transfers very easily.  An artisan should be classified by their dedication to quality and hopefully consistency, not by the size of batch they happen to produce.

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 07-03-2015, 08:10 AM
#17
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^ I've never thought about it that way, but it could very well be the case for RazoRock and other large Artisan made products.

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 07-03-2015, 08:19 AM
#18
  • Agravic
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  • Pennsylvania, USA
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Using this logic though, where is the line between artisan and commercial producer?

Commercial manufacturing does all of the above, just in larger scale.

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 07-03-2015, 08:28 AM
#19
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(07-03-2015, 08:19 AM)Agravic Wrote: Using this logic though, where is the line between artisan and commercial producer?

Commercial manufacturing does all of the above, just in larger scale.

I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive.

As long as the whole system is monitored by hand during the whole production and not just mechanized process (with QC at the end if at all) I would consider it 'artisan'.

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 07-03-2015, 08:31 AM
#20
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I think the difference is inthe presence of the inventor, the cook. And the dynamics involved in producing it. Like an ongoing interaction.

If there is a recipy and a large scale production facility, pumping out soap automatically, it may be good soap but is less appreciated.

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