08-24-2015, 07:11 AM
#1
  • v4257
  • Always chasing the perfect shave
  • Boston, USA
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I have been eyeing the M&F chief and other brushes like it (Paladin Chief, Simpson M6/7 etc). The issue I'm running into is - none of those brushes are readily available.

What are my alternatives?

Any pointers on how to get a M&F chief and/or Paladin Chief are also welcome (I mean how much does it cost? What are the knot dimensions? No websites - what?)

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 08-24-2015, 07:35 AM
#2
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If you want a Chief easiest thing to do is have an artisan make you one.  In fact, I have Rudy Vey making me a Chief now, with a 26mm Shavemac knot incoming.  Cheaper than a Paladin or a Simpson, and you'll end up with a knot that can do toe-to-toe with the two you mentioned.

Photo of my Chief handle (awaiting final knot installation):

[Image: ikcGQJ5AqwnEp221mqjDApbSginmbMbQrs0gdWyi...27-h996-no]

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 08-24-2015, 07:35 AM
#3
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Ken from Dark Holler is an active member here, he is going to have his website up soon (iirc) and will start taking orders again. Your best bet if you want one now is to put out some feelers on WTB or try to grab one when they come up for sale. They are pretty amazing quality brushes. As far as alternatives go, I guess something along the lines of a Shavemac or Wiborg might be the closest for you. I'd wait though if it were me. Not like your face is going anywhere Smile

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 08-24-2015, 08:50 AM
#4
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Paladin Chiefs can be purchased from Ken, Chiefbroom. Ken designed the handle, which was first offered as a B&B group buy made entirely by Lee Sabini of M&F. Paladin handles are now made by Ken and his son and knotted by Lee. It's worth contacting Ken as he may have some fore sale now. 

http://shavenook.com/showthread.php?tid=31312   (his email is item 7 in the post).

That's your best bet. As for David1201's suggestion you could get a very nice hand turned Chief-like brush from Rudy but believe me it won't be the same thing. I own several Rudy brushes and they are good handmade brushes that I enjoy using. However the Paladin handles are the best on the market today in my opinion.

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 08-24-2015, 08:58 AM
#5
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If you want a Chief, buy a chief. If you want a Chubby or Duke, buy a Chubby or Duke.

I enjoy artisan handles more when they are made to reproduce vintage handles. As other have suggested, I'd contact Ken and see what the wait time is or place a WTB.

All evidence has been buried. All tapes have been erased.

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 08-24-2015, 09:37 AM
#6
  • v4257
  • Always chasing the perfect shave
  • Boston, USA
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I love the idea of getting a Chief but it seems to be a world of dark alleys and secret handshakes. For e.g. I don't even know how much they are - $50? $500? It's all a bit weird.

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 08-24-2015, 09:51 AM
#7
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(08-24-2015, 09:37 AM)v4257 Wrote: I love the idea of getting a Chief but it seems to be a world of dark alleys and secret handshakes. For e.g. I don't even know how much they are - $50? $500? It's all a bit weird.
When the B&B Group Buy Chiefs were being sold a couple of years ago, they were running $130.

My guess is they are closer to $180 now for a 24mm knot.

All evidence has been buried. All tapes have been erased.

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 08-24-2015, 11:36 AM
#8
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I would agree that Ken has some of the nicest handles out there (probably the best), but I've given up on Mr. Sabini's knots - its a real hit or miss in my experience.  

The Shavemac knots, however, seem to be consistently excellent as I have yet to see a comment critical of this knot.

Would love for Ken to start putting Shavemac knots in his handles - that would be nirvana imo.


(08-24-2015, 08:50 AM)guildx500 Wrote: As for David1201's suggestion you could get a very nice hand turned Chief-like brush from Rudy but believe me it won't be the same thing. I own several Rudy brushes and they are good handmade brushes that I enjoy using. However the Paladin handles are the best on the market today in my opinion.

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 08-24-2015, 11:39 AM
#9
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(08-24-2015, 09:37 AM)v4257 Wrote: I love the idea of getting a Chief but it seems to be a world of dark alleys and secret handshakes. For e.g. I don't even know how much they are - $50? $500? It's all a bit weird.

No dark alleys or secret handshakes with us. Just a Dark Holler and at times so many emails (all appreciated) they have seemed to block out the sun.

I don't speak for Lee Sabini or M&F, and I don't know whether Lee has any Chief shaving brushes on hand now or will in the future; however, I'm pretty sure the last ones he sold bearing the M&F label were made with handles we turned in our shop.

First-batch Paladin Chief shaving brushes were priced at $140 plus shipping. That reflected a $20 price reduction due to a bit of dissatisfaction on our part with the finish quality. All but a few of those handles were finished in England. The second-batch 26 mm brushes (excepting those with Ebonite handles) went for $160 plus shipping. That remains the standing price.

We stopped accepting new orders a while back because I couldn't manage the mounting front-office demands and also get anything done in the shop. But we're still making handles, and we'll start selling brushes again as soon as we get a website up and running. For now, we're taking advantage of the break to build the website, put our shop in order, catch up the books, do some design work, produce handles, and get ourselves better lined out in some other respects.

As for alternatives, Rudy makes great brushes. And he was making brushes that bear a strong resemblance to M&F and Paladin Chief shaving brushes before the latter were even conceived. Back then, those RV brushes were referred to as (Simpson) AS3 copies. I hadn't yet seen an AS3 (or Rudy's rendition of one) when I drew what came to be known as the Chief  handle, but that hardly matters; it's derivative just the same, although I believe it is also original and distinctive in its own right.

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 08-24-2015, 12:21 PM
#10
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(08-24-2015, 11:39 AM)Chiefbroom Wrote:
(08-24-2015, 09:37 AM)v4257 Wrote: I love the idea of getting a Chief but it seems to be a world of dark alleys and secret handshakes. For e.g. I don't even know how much they are - $50? $500? It's all a bit weird.

No dark alleys or secret handshakes with us. Just a Dark Holler and at times so many emails (all appreciated) they have seemed to block out the sun.

I don't speak for Lee Sabini or M&F, and I don't know whether Lee has any Chief shaving brushes on hand now or will in the future; however, I'm pretty sure the last ones he sold bearing the M&F label were made with handles we turned in our shop.

First-batch Paladin Chief shaving brushes were priced at $140 plus shipping. That reflected a $20 price reduction due to a bit of dissatisfaction on our part with the finish quality. All but a few of those handles were finished in England. The second-batch 26 mm brushes (excepting those with Ebonite handles) went for $160 plus shipping. That remains the standing price.

We stopped accepting new orders a while back because I couldn't manage the mounting front-office demands and also get anything done in the shop. But we're still making handles, and we'll start selling brushes again as soon as we get a website up and running. For now, we're taking advantage of the break to build the website, put our shop in order, catch up the books, do some design work, produce handles, and get ourselves better lined out in some other respects.

As for alternatives, Rudy makes great brushes. And he was making brushes that bear a strong resemblance to M&F and Paladin Chief shaving brushes before the latter were even conceived. Back then, those RV brushes were referred to as (Simpson) AS3 copies. I hadn't yet seen an AS3 (or Rudy's rendition of one) when I drew what came to be known as the Chief  handle, but that hardly matters; it's derivative just the same, although I believe it is also original and distinctive in its own right.
I am looking forward to your website. Good luck.

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 08-24-2015, 12:38 PM
#11
  • v4257
  • Always chasing the perfect shave
  • Boston, USA
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Thank you all for the info. Thank you Ken for the authoritative story on Paladin availability.

I reckon I will wait for a a bit and see if Paladin's become readily available. 

Truth be told - I'm very happy with my Omega-48 but surely I need to spend more money on buying more shaving gear.

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 08-24-2015, 12:59 PM
#12
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Thanks for the update, chief.

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 08-24-2015, 01:05 PM
#13
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(08-24-2015, 11:36 AM)david1201 Wrote: . . .
Would love for Ken to start putting Shavemac knots in his handles - that would be nirvana imo.
. . .

Funny you should mention this. The thought crossed my mind shortly after his second batch brushes came out, and after many discussions about knot qualities and consistency. I never got around to asking Ken, thinking this was a non-starter of an idea, but can only imagine what a 2-band silvertip bulb in a PK-47 handle would be like.

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 08-24-2015, 04:33 PM
#14
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Ken, I hope you're building up a large stock of Paladin brushes, they are going to sell like crazy when you debut the website! Good luck and hope to see the website soon!


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 08-24-2015, 07:18 PM
#15
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(08-24-2015, 11:36 AM)david1201 Wrote: I would agree that Ken has some of the nicest handles out there (probably the best), but I've given up on Mr. Sabini's knots - its a real hit or miss in my experience.  

The Shavemac knots, however, seem to be consistently excellent as I have yet to see a comment critical of this knot.

Would love for Ken to start putting Shavemac knots in his handles - that would be nirvana imo.


(08-24-2015, 08:50 AM)guildx500 Wrote: As for David1201's suggestion you could get a very nice hand turned Chief-like brush from Rudy but believe me it won't be the same thing. I own several Rudy brushes and they are good handmade brushes that I enjoy using. However the Paladin handles are the best on the market today in my opinion.

I also would love if Ken would consider selling his handles with knots from both Vie Long, Shavemac and also M&F of course.

Variety is great.

I still respect Lee Sabini, but some of his latest M&F hair knots just seem to lack proper uniformity to be brutally honest !!

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 08-24-2015, 07:20 PM
#16
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(08-24-2015, 07:18 PM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(08-24-2015, 11:36 AM)david1201 Wrote: I would agree that Ken has some of the nicest handles out there (probably the best), but I've given up on Mr. Sabini's knots - its a real hit or miss in my experience.  

The Shavemac knots, however, seem to be consistently excellent as I have yet to see a comment critical of this knot.

Would love for Ken to start putting Shavemac knots in his handles - that would be nirvana imo.


(08-24-2015, 08:50 AM)guildx500 Wrote: As for David1201's suggestion you could get a very nice hand turned Chief-like brush from Rudy but believe me it won't be the same thing. I own several Rudy brushes and they are good handmade brushes that I enjoy using. However the Paladin handles are the best on the market today in my opinion.

I also would love if Ken would consider selling his handles with knots from both Vie Long, Shavemac and also M&F of course.

Variety is great.

I still respect Lee Sabini, but some of his latest M&F hair knots just seem to lack proper uniformity to be brutally honest !!

+1 , variety is good because ken & team can create some awesome handles .


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