09-04-2015, 02:11 PM
#1
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Hey guys kind of having trouble wording my question here. OK I have thick coarse stubble. Very few razors I use I can actually go against the grain with. The ones I can go against the grain with I've found to be pretty mild. I've also noticed for me that as long as the razor holds the blade in a way that doesn't let it flex or chatter I can go against the grain.

Here's the question what razors hold the blade the most securely for you guys. The ones I own now the Ikon DLC slant is a top contender I just don't really like the shaves I get from it. So what readily available razors do this, and I apologize if this doesn't make any sense.. I do have a mongoose and another SE and they work well, I'm just looking at DEs right now.

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 09-04-2015, 03:12 PM
#2
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Feather AS-D2

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 09-04-2015, 03:58 PM
#3
  • VTMAX
  • Banned
  • Woodstock, Vermont
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When there is a lot of blade showing and the gap is quite wide you have a recipe for blade flex or chatter. Merkur Slant for example.  
Yes, the AS-D2 is tight.  
The Wolfman is the finest example right now of a tight fit and when you tighten it down it really is altogether stunning. There is zero chance of blade play.
Another one is the RR Baby Smooth.  Feels extremely rigid and tight and the way it bends the blade at an extreme helps eliminate any movement.

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 09-04-2015, 04:05 PM
#4
  • kwsher
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX - USA
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Although not readily available, the RR Black Mamba is also very secure. I just changed blades today after (7) shaves on a Feather blade with zero irritation and no tugging. I normally get 3-4.

For me, it beats the ASD2 as it is a bit more aggressive but still very smooth and efficient- quite remarkable in performance. I am very, very impressed with this DE razor.

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 09-04-2015, 04:10 PM
#5
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I knew Wolfman was going to be brought up...Never really caught my eye until I just kept reading about them. Maybe when he opens the list back up I'll try and get on it.

Primo, I remember from a previous conversation you said the r41 and ASD2 were your favorite razors and that stuck with me. I may haft to give it a try. The only thing holding me back from the feather is its reputation as being so mild,I have a gillette tech and heard they were similar so I may haft to give it a shot.

This issue is why I prefer aggressive razors,I don't haft to go against the grain and still get a nice shave. It is nice to have the option to go against the grain though and having a smooth upper lip is pretty nice.

As far as the RRBS goes that's another friggin thread and I don't even want to touch on it too much. I did buy one though(never got it),it's a big mess that I'm trying to sort out now.

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 09-04-2015, 04:12 PM
#6
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So basically all the razor's I'm looking for are sold out and or you haft to get on a list for... Angry My luck...

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 09-04-2015, 04:18 PM
#7
  • kwsher
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX - USA
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(09-04-2015, 04:10 PM)Otis375 Wrote: I knew  Wolfman was going to be brought up...Never really caught my eye until I just kept reading about them. Maybe when he opens the list back up I'll try and get on it.

Primo, I remember from a previous conversation you said the r41 and ASD2 were your favorite razors and that stuck with me. I may haft to give it a try. The only thing holding me back from the feather is its reputation as being so mild,I have a gillette tech and heard they were similar so I may haft to give it a shot.

This issue is why I prefer aggressive razors,I  don't haft to go against the grain and still get a nice shave. It is nice to have the option to go against the grain though and having a smooth upper lip is pretty nice.

As far as the RRBS goes that's another friggin thread and I don't even want to touch on it too much. I did buy one though(never got it),it's a big mess that I'm trying to sort out now.

The ASD2 is easy to pick up and don't let the mild stories scare you off. I am like you it sounds like, I generally like more mid to aggressive razors so I don't pick up the Feather that often but a thread will pop up, I load a blade and it does a great job without irritation. I just forget in between what a solid razor it is for some reason...

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 09-04-2015, 04:27 PM
#8
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(09-04-2015, 04:18 PM)kwsher Wrote:
(09-04-2015, 04:10 PM)Otis375 Wrote: I knew  Wolfman was going to be brought up...Never really caught my eye until I just kept reading about them. Maybe when he opens the list back up I'll try and get on it.

Primo, I remember from a previous conversation you said the r41 and ASD2 were your favorite razors and that stuck with me. I may haft to give it a try. The only thing holding me back from the feather is its reputation as being so mild,I have a gillette tech and heard they were similar so I may haft to give it a shot.

This issue is why I prefer aggressive razors,I  don't haft to go against the grain and still get a nice shave. It is nice to have the option to go against the grain though and having a smooth upper lip is pretty nice.

As far as the RRBS goes that's another friggin thread and I don't even want to touch on it too much. I did buy one though(never got it),it's a big mess that I'm trying to sort out now.

The ASD2 is easy to pick up and don't let the mild stories scare you off. I am like you it sounds like, I generally like more mid to aggressive razors so I don't pick up the Feather that often but a thread will pop up, I load a blade and it does a great job without irritation. I just forget in between what a solid razor it is for some reason...
What about the above the ties? I'd prefer stainless,honestly I've tried most of your run of the mill common razors.

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 09-04-2015, 04:40 PM
#9
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I have also found that the razors that give me the best shaves are the ones that hold the blade very tightly...

My suggestions...easily attained...

Att S1: Wonderful razor and because of the torque the blade is very rigid.
Feather AS-D2: Yes it is mildish but still does a great job. This razor gave me my first taste of what it felt like when the blade was held very rigidly.
Ikon 102: This razor is also a slant but it does not torque the blade. The head does hold the blade very firmly and I have no problem going against the grain with the right blade.

My suggestions...difficult to find...

Wolfman SB: This razor is stellar. I can shave BBS with this razor for a week straight and have no irratation. If you find one get one.
Ikon SBS: This razor was limited edition. It shaves alot like the Wolfman but is nowhere near as smooth. I saw one on ebay for $450.00 (over double what I payed for mine brand new).

There are of coarse other razors that do a very good job, my Baby Smooth and Ikon OSS/SB/OC for instance. However the 5 razors above have become the favorites out of my collection and largely because of how the blade is held in place.

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 09-04-2015, 04:50 PM
#10
  • VTMAX
  • Banned
  • Woodstock, Vermont
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Essentially one doesn't want a lot of blade showing or that wide blade gap to avoid that 'chatter.'  ATT is another option as is the Ikon 102 which can be hunted down when out of stock. That design holds the blade snugly as well.  Maybe someone will chime in on the Pils.  I have one on order but will be a while before it ships.  It looks like a unique loading system from all accounts.

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 09-04-2015, 04:56 PM
#11
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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Honestly, I've been giving this a lot of thought lately, and I think that this is the primary factor that seems to differentiate this new generation of machines razors from the older Gillettes, and even the sintered stainless razors from a few years ago.

Machines metals seem to allow for much tighter tolerances. When I think of the Wolfman, BBS-1, RozoRock Slant, and the Black Mamba (presumably - I haven't had a chance to try that one out) all have smoothness as a defining characteristic. Regardless of blade exposure and/or blade gap, they all hold the blade very firmly, to allow for a solid, steady connection between the blade and the skin, and that is what I find gives me the most pleasant face feel.

As if to underscore this, I'm currently in the process of evaluating a "super-secret" (not really) prototype machined razor that I think is going to make a huge splash when it drops. (I hope to have a detailed review up in a few days) The designer of the razor told me that it was a "mild" razor, because the blade gap and exposure are pretty small. I was surprised when I first tried it out, because even though the measurements technically suggest a "mild" razor, this one is extremely efficient, and left my tough face as smooth as glass. Contrast that with the BBS-1 which has a moster gap+exposure, yet feels remarkably similar on the face.

Back in the "old days," a razor with a lot of gap and exposure allowed the blade to move more freely, which is why I think we associate those things with the word "aggressive." It makes sense that a blade that chatters more might leave your face feeling more irritated, and maybe make you feel like you got a closer shave. But I feel like the terms "mild" and "aggressive" are becoming more meaningless.

In the end, all I really care about is whether a razor can make my skin smooth without removing a layer of skin and turning my face into hamburger. Whether it takes 0.2mm or 1.4mm of blade to do it doesn't much matter to me.

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 09-04-2015, 05:02 PM
#12
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Chamm,I believe that is why the old single edge razors and now the mongoose shaves so well. I could be wrong but the thicker blade and especially with the mongoose it's snugged down .

I've been thinking this too and I agree. Blade gap and exposure can only do so much for a razor but the razor's that hold the blade down or even torqued do give a lot better shave. You just worded it better than me.

I forgot about the Pils too, from what I understand the blade is held nearly flat.

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 09-04-2015, 05:06 PM
#13
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I had the same problem. I always preferred very mild DEs with a very sharp blade (labs), until I discovered SEs, and now injectors. I still use a DE on the rare occasion - the Feather Popular. It is cheap and plasticky but it is the best shaving DE I've used by far and the only one I'm willing to use.

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 09-04-2015, 05:11 PM
#14
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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I agree absolutely, Otis. I have fallen in love with the Cobra razors, and because of the blade thickness, there is very little chatter. It also applies to the vintage slants. They achieved rigidity by torquing the blade, but the end shave was very similar to a modern stainless.

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 09-04-2015, 05:19 PM
#15
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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(09-04-2015, 05:02 PM)Otis375 Wrote: I forgot about the Pils too, from what I understand the blade is held nearly flat.

This is only my opinion, but I would classify the PILS differently. Although it has incredibly tight tolerances, and is extremely well engineered, it does not hold the blade all that tightly, nor, does it, as you pointed out, put much, if any, flex on the blade. The end result is a very similar amount of blade movement to many of the older non-slant DE. I'm not saying this is objectively bad. Just very different from WR1, BBS-1, Black Mamba, et. al.

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 09-04-2015, 05:27 PM
#16
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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Thinking about my earlier statement, I also want to make an explicit exception for ATT M/R/H series razors. They are modern, machined, and stainless, but do not hold the blade exceptionally rigid. Again, not a slight against ATT, just an observation.

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 09-04-2015, 05:32 PM
#17
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I have to throw the ATT slants out there as exactly what you are looking for.  I think the slight flex put on the blade makes for an exceptionally comfortable shave.

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 09-04-2015, 07:11 PM
#18
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How can you tell if your blade is chattering?

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 09-04-2015, 07:14 PM
#19
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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(09-04-2015, 07:11 PM)Shannons Soaps Wrote: How can you tell if your blade is chattering?

There's a Groucho Marx joke in here somewhere, I just know it! Smile

Seriously, though, I can feel the chatter when I'm shaving. The blade just doesn't feel "secure" as I drag it across my face. That, and almost any time I cut myself, it's because of blade chatter. The blade moves around in relation to the head, and cause many more nicks.

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 09-04-2015, 07:22 PM
#20
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(09-04-2015, 07:14 PM)chamm Wrote:
(09-04-2015, 07:11 PM)Shannon Wrote: How can you tell if your blade is chattering?

There's a Groucho Marx joke in here somewhere, I just know it! Smile

Seriously, though, I can feel the chatter when I'm shaving. The blade just doesn't feel "secure" as I drag it across my face. That, and almost any time I cut myself, it's because of blade chatter. The blade moves around in relation to the head, and cause many more nicks.

That and I can feel like say going against the grain if the blade isn't held tight it feels like pulling or tugging and usually followed by blood. I assume that's the blade flexing on the hair because it doesn't do it with a SE,the Mongoose ,straights or DE razors that hold the blade firmly.

IMO this is what makes slants shave the way they do.IMO when the blade is aligned with the base plate and not the top the blade isn't torqued as much but you get a nice slicing stroke. When the  blade is aligned to the top it is more rigid and while it's not as much of a slicing stroke it does make for a smoother shave. These aren't facts and I could very well be talking out of my rear end. It's just my theory here.

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