11-20-2015, 11:40 PM
#1
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I could use a little help selecting my first custom Shavemac. 

A bit of background on my tastes:

I bowl lather exclusively, usually with softer soaps like Mystic Waters and Mike's. My current favorite brushes are an M&F Chief, a Rooney Heritage, an M&F Emilion and a Paladin Chief, all two-bands. I like a reasonable amount of backbone, such as you'll find on something like the Chiefs. I lean toward lofts around 52mm but do like the 54mm loft of one of my Semogues. 

I've decided upon the new silvertip 2-band, since it seems to be getting a lot of love. I'll definitely go with a bulb shaped knot, just because of personal preference. 

Here's my questions:

1) Do Shavemacs lofts generally run true to size, larger or smaller? For example, I'd go with a 52mm loft if I felt pretty sure it wouldn't come in 50mm, which is just a bit too low for me. 

2) I'm thinking about either a 25mm or 26mm knot. Do I trust the standard 2X formula and go with a 26mm knot / 52mm loft? Would 25 / 52 still have enough backbone? What about 26 / 54? What's the sweet spot in that range?

I appreciate your guidance, especially from those of you who have experience with the silvertip 2-band. I've been considering a Shavemac for a long time, and I'm finally ready to pull the trigger. 

Nick

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 11-21-2015, 02:22 AM
#2
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I have a 2-band silvertip in bulb, 26x52, that I adore for face lathering, and I think would make an excellent brush for bowl lathering. Super-soft tips, plenty of backbone, and excellent flow-thru.  This brush, as well as my other shavemac 2-band silvertip fan, were both made for me by Rudy Vey.

Rudy is spot on with loft when he makes me a brush (think he has made 6 or so for me over the years).  Reason I mention this is that brush's direct from Shavemac/Berndt can be off 1-2mm in my experience.

In short if I was you I'd consider having your brush made by one of the popular artisans here (Rudy, Doug Korn, etc.).  Think you'll end up with a nicer handle and more accurate loft settings.

Here's a photo of mine:

[Image: eQjr5FMWCtoHt0ZZaQfhR-dfni9sFKgzRGlrj5p9...88-h993-no]

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 11-21-2015, 05:48 AM
#3
  • kwsher
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX - USA
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Another thing to consider on ordering from Bernd is that the knot dimension is nominal. Meaning that a 26mm nominal knot will be 1-2mm larger effective when set. I have a 26mm 2-band that I had Bernd set at 56mm loft and it is perfect for my taste (I face lather 100%). I have another 2-band 26mm with a slightly lower loft that loses nothing and also has a very soft face feel with plenty of backbone. For bowl lathering I would likely suggest erring to the higher loft side, consulting with Bernd via email on any special requests and from my experience he will happily and quickly respond to any questions you may have.

Regardless, good luck!

[Image: PE1Rinul.jpg]

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 11-21-2015, 05:52 AM
#4
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If you like more backbone and a fan shape, I'd stay under 2:1 (25/47). My Shavemacs are 1mm bigger in knot size than ordered Smile

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

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 11-21-2015, 05:59 AM
#5
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(11-20-2015, 11:40 PM)Nick Danger Wrote: 1) Do Shavemacs lofts generally run true to size, larger or smaller? For example, I'd go with a 52mm loft if I felt pretty sure it wouldn't come in 50mm, which is just a bit too low for me. 

2) I'm thinking about either a 25mm or 26mm knot. Do I trust the standard 2X formula and go with a 26mm knot / 52mm loft? Would 25 / 52 still have enough backbone? What about 26 / 54? What's the sweet spot in that range?


I have seven Shavemacs and all have a loft that I ordered.  You can always add a note to your order, with Shavemac, that the loft has to precisely XXmm.

My 26 / 52, 2-band silvertip works great for face and bowl lathering.  25 / 52 will not be that much different.  In hindsight, requesting a densely packed 26 / 52 or reducing the loft to 50 would have hit a home run.  I prefer a scrubbier knot.  

Personally, for 2-band silvertip, a 54mm loft would be too high.

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 11-21-2015, 07:11 AM
#6
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I have a Shavemac bulb shape 24mm (I think it is closer to 25mm) DO-1 three band set at 52mm loft. I didn't use a micrometer, but the loft is true to what was stated. I let Bernard recommend the loft as this was my first custom brush. For me it's perfect. Any more loft, and it might feel like it was losing backbone. I also a bowl lather.

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 11-21-2015, 07:35 AM
#7
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I'm getting a 2 band bulb at 26x50 as part of the TSR xmas LE.  Ordered by Nishy who's a member here and who has several shavema said so I am pretty sure he knows what he's doing.  

Sounds like you will be good with 26x52 bulb.

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 11-21-2015, 02:48 PM
#8
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I would order via email to Bernd. I ordered from Expert page and put a note at bottom of order page restating loft was a big deal requesting 48mm, where notes go and my loft was 4mm off at 52mm. On the finest grade this was a deal breaker. After he told me to ship it back and then I pointed out the note and told him I would happily ship it back he made it right. I also had same problem with the group buy brush in Beehive finest, Finest loft was supposed to be 48 IIRC and it was way off. I did ship it back as requested, since it was a group buy and I wanted to be cool about the group buy since it was complex, two handle colors and three or four hair types and two knot shapes, with a big price reduction. I sure did not want to be the one that spoiled a great buy and the future. The mistake could have been a simple mixup placing the finest hair in a 2 band handle, which the way he build it was more than likely the hair knot?

I have never posted this before and I know Bernd is well respected and that respect is not lost from me. I would order form him again and again. Why, his hair is the best, most consistent shape, stable, exactly in grade as there is. And price is not over the top.

I like the finest, also three band, and want a silver tip 2 band so bad Santa my bring it. Keep in mind set the more packed d01 higher than 2:1. I have a three band @ 2:1 and it could use some loft, maybe 50mm or more than likely 52 as he would probably suggest.

I said all this just to make sure when ordering state your expectations on loft.  I have had several Shavemac and plan on at least two more and Bernd has done more for the shave brush than most. From my purchase Shavemac and Semogue have been most consistent in hair. i also like the fact that if you order a xxmm knot that is what the base is as was said before the knot at exit on a 24mm will be bigger which is a good thing to me.

What do 2 band sivertip owners suggest for bulb loft on a 24mm knot. It would need to go both ways bowl and face?

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 11-21-2015, 03:36 PM
#9
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Bernd himself recommends 52mm loft for a 24mm knot for face lathering, and there's no reason it won't work as well using a bowl.

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 11-22-2015, 08:29 AM
#10
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I just got this custom one on Friday.  Haven't tried it yet, but it sure looks good.  I ordered 24mm Silvertip, with a 54 loft.  Just measured it as best as I could, and it appears to be just a shade over 24mm, and dead on 54 at the longest point.  Seems quite soft.


[Image: OcD7e9k.jpg]

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 11-22-2015, 08:40 AM
#11
  • Ross
  • Ex-Lurker
  • NYC
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(11-21-2015, 03:36 PM)rsp1202 Wrote: Bernd himself recommends 52mm loft for a 24mm knot for face lathering, and there's no reason it won't work as well using a bowl.

Does that recommendation apply to both a bulb and a fan? I'm considering ordering a bulb DO1 3-band with a 22mm knot. I face lather 100%.

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 11-22-2015, 08:49 AM
#12
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I've been ordering Shavemac custom bulbs for years. I'd say 80% or better came exactly as ordered. The others came 1-2mm bigger in diameter or loft or both. None came smaller than ordered - ever.

For bulbs, my rule of thumb is to double the knot diameter and add 4-6mm.   I have two SM's in 2-band silvertip and it was not necessary to alter my formula. I got more backbone with the same formula and just as good flow-through.

I've owned two bulb Shavemacs where the loft was simply double the diameter of the knot. One  - the TSN Beehive - was good. The other was not able to hold as much lather as I like. I would not use that formula on anything smaller than a 24mm bulb knot.

This 2-band silvertip hair is the best hair on the market IMHO. The backbone is perfect without compromising tip softness.

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 11-22-2015, 08:58 AM
#13
  • Ross
  • Ex-Lurker
  • NYC
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(11-22-2015, 08:49 AM)scritchnscrub Wrote: I've been ordering Shavemac custom bulbs for years. I'd say 80% or better came exactly as ordered. The others came 1-2mm bigger in diameter or loft or both. None came smaller than ordered - ever.

For bulbs, my rule of thumb is to double the knot diameter and add 4-6mm.   I have two SM's in 2-band silvertip and it was not necessary to alter my formula. I got more backbone with the same formula and just as good flow-through.

I've owned two bulb Shavemacs where the loft was simply double the diameter of the knot. One  - the TSN Beehive - was good. The other was not able to hold as much lather as I like. I would not use that formula on anything smaller than a 24mm bulb knot.

This 2-band silvertip hair is the best hair on the market IMHO. The backbone is perfect without compromising tip softness.

Thanks, this is helpful. I do prefer a smaller knot. Sounds like you think that in a 3-band DO1 with a 22mm knot, a 50mm loft will provide enough backbone, and that a 44mm (which I was inclined to consider) would be overly stiff.

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 11-22-2015, 09:16 AM
#14
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(11-22-2015, 08:58 AM)Ross Wrote:
(11-22-2015, 08:49 AM)scritchnscrub Wrote: I've been ordering Shavemac custom bulbs for years. I'd say 80% or better came exactly as ordered. The others came 1-2mm bigger in diameter or loft or both. None came smaller than ordered - ever.

For bulbs, my rule of thumb is to double the knot diameter and add 4-6mm.   I have two SM's in 2-band silvertip and it was not necessary to alter my formula. I got more backbone with the same formula and just as good flow-through.

I've owned two bulb Shavemacs where the loft was simply double the diameter of the knot. One  - the TSN Beehive - was good. The other was not able to hold as much lather as I like. I would not use that formula on anything smaller than a 24mm bulb knot.

This 2-band silvertip hair is the best hair on the market IMHO. The backbone is perfect without compromising tip softness.

Thanks, this is helpful. I do prefer a smaller knot. Sounds like you think that in a 3-band DO1 with a 22mm knot, a 50mm loft will provide enough backbone, and that a 44mm (which I was inclined to consider) would be overly stiff.

Ross - the 3-band D01 is a unique hair that I personally don't love. I found it didn't release lather as well as I like. That hair in particular I would recommend at least a 22mm/50mm loft. 

Why are you gravitating to that hair? What properties are you hoping for?

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 11-22-2015, 10:42 AM
#15
  • Ross
  • Ex-Lurker
  • NYC
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(11-22-2015, 09:16 AM)scritchnscrub Wrote:
(11-22-2015, 08:58 AM)Ross Wrote:
(11-22-2015, 08:49 AM)scritchnscrub Wrote: I've been ordering Shavemac custom bulbs for years. I'd say 80% or better came exactly as ordered. The others came 1-2mm bigger in diameter or loft or both. None came smaller than ordered - ever.

For bulbs, my rule of thumb is to double the knot diameter and add 4-6mm.   I have two SM's in 2-band silvertip and it was not necessary to alter my formula. I got more backbone with the same formula and just as good flow-through.

I've owned two bulb Shavemacs where the loft was simply double the diameter of the knot. One  - the TSN Beehive - was good. The other was not able to hold as much lather as I like. I would not use that formula on anything smaller than a 24mm bulb knot.

This 2-band silvertip hair is the best hair on the market IMHO. The backbone is perfect without compromising tip softness.

Thanks, this is helpful. I do prefer a smaller knot. Sounds like you think that in a 3-band DO1 with a 22mm knot, a 50mm loft will provide enough backbone, and that a 44mm (which I was inclined to consider) would be overly stiff.

Ross - the 3-band D01 is a unique hair that I personally don't love. I found it didn't release lather as well as I like. That hair in particular I would recommend at least a 22mm/50mm loft. 

Why are you gravitating to that hair? What properties are you hoping for?


Thanks for asking. I'm interested more in softness than in scritch. If it matters, I'm definitely a newbie re brushes. For 5+ years I've been using a super badger from Taylor of Old Bond Street that my father picked up on a business trip to London. I've used his Duke 3 best badger a couple of times and found it too scritchy.

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 11-22-2015, 11:07 AM
#16
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D01 Silvertip (3-Band) is a completely different animal (sic) than Silvertip 2-Band.

D01 Silvertip (3-Band) can sustain a higher loft due to the amount of backbone the hair possesses.  To give you an idea, I have one brush with a 26mm knot set at 52.5mm and another 26mm knot set at 56mm.  The 26 / 56 knot could have easily gone to 58mm or 60mm loft.  You can reduce a D01 knot below the normal 2:1 ratio, but be prepared of serious scrub.  None of my D01 knots have any scratch.  

If you're looking for pure softness. . .go with Silvertip 2-Band.

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 11-22-2015, 11:13 AM
#17
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(11-22-2015, 11:07 AM)Gigster Wrote: D01 Silvertip (3-Band) is a completely different animal (sic) than Silvertip 2-Band.

D01 Silvertip (3-Band) can sustain a higher loft due to the amount of backbone the hair possesses.  To give you an idea, I have one brush with a 26mm knot set at 52.5mm and another 26mm knot set at 56mm.  The 26 / 56 knot could have easily gone to 58mm or 60mm loft.  You can reduce a D01 knot below the normal 2:1 ratio, but be prepared of serious scrub.  None of my D01 knots have any scratch.  

If you're looking for pure softness. . .go with Silvertip 2-Band.

Agreed, the softest tips of any of the knots Berndt offers, and very hard to beat (from any manufacturer).  The only knot I've owned that had softer tips was a HMW knot that frankly was too dense and lacking in backbone to be a good face-lathering machine.

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 11-22-2015, 11:28 AM
#18
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(11-22-2015, 08:40 AM)Ross Wrote:
(11-21-2015, 03:36 PM)rsp1202 Wrote: Bernd himself recommends 52mm loft for a 24mm knot for face lathering, and there's no reason it won't work as well using a bowl.

Does that recommendation apply to both a bulb and a fan? I'm considering ordering a bulb DO1 3-band with a 22mm knot. I face lather 100%.

Yes, his recommendations for both bulb and fan are: 24/52, 25/54, 26/56. I questioned him on that since it goes against popular sentiment here on short-lofted fans, and he reconfirmed.

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 11-22-2015, 11:32 AM
#19
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(11-22-2015, 11:28 AM)rsp1202 Wrote:
(11-22-2015, 08:40 AM)Ross Wrote:
(11-21-2015, 03:36 PM)rsp1202 Wrote: Bernd himself recommends 52mm loft for a 24mm knot for face lathering, and there's no reason it won't work as well using a bowl.

Does that recommendation apply to both a bulb and a fan? I'm considering ordering a bulb DO1 3-band with a 22mm knot. I face lather 100%.

Yes, his recommendations for both bulb and fan are: 24/52, 25/54, 26/56. I questioned him on that since it goes against popular sentiment here on short-lofted fans, and he reconfirmed.

On my last one I went wit a D01 two band in 26/52, this is my favorite combo on a fan shape.  This is one of those YMMV type of thing.

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 11-22-2015, 01:10 PM
#20
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Id say Bernd has recommend a very good middle ground.

I have a 24/46 in 2 band Silvertip from the first group buy on another forum and IMO it's at least 2mm too low on loft. With an extra 2mm it could may well have been perfect. A slight sacrifice of backbone but better flow and easier to splay leading to better face feel.

IMO these Shavemac brushes are the best in the business. Extremely high quality, made with great precision and at a very reasonable price. They are my no 1.

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