12-18-2015, 03:46 PM
#1
  • Java
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  • Warner Robins, Georgia, USA
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I didn't want to hijack Teddy's M&P thread, but it got me wondering if there would be any interest in a discussion of these soaps. They don't get talked about much, and I'm hoping we can discuss the ins and outs of these soaps without a bunch of people stopping by to inform us why they shouldn't exist.

I've got a fair sized soap rotation, that sees an M&P coming up about once a week, give or take. For instance;

I've got a couple of Pyrate Cove soaps. They are very simple, basic soaps without much in the way of skin-care ingredients, and have simple non-complex scents. They come wrapped in paper. Last time I bought a puck they were around $4 a puck including shipping.

Col.Conk soaps to me are a slight step up from there, and I love their Amber scent.

I like the Shaving Yeti soaps, but they seem to out of everything most of the time. Their scents are more subtle than I usually like, except for their Yeti Snot. It's a bit of a challenge for me to shave with that one, because the menthol is so strong it makes my eyes water!

Of the ones I've tried, Mama Bear's seemed to me to have the best skin-care, and I loved the Sandalwood/Vanilla scent.

I'm not trying to make these soaps out to be something they're not. There is a reason none of them come in a glass jar for $70. But I'm thinking there may be some closet M&P users out there that would like to talk about them.

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 12-18-2015, 03:59 PM
#2
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The conk cant be considered a melt and piur. Though the most common melt and pour i have seen is for pur glycerin hand and body soap. Conk is far from it.

Never heard of pyrate cove. How subtle be the scents?  Compared to williams?

The yeti snot is well loved on other forums and ive never heard mentionrd as anything but one ifthe best mentholated rhings around.

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 12-18-2015, 05:31 PM
#3
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(12-18-2015, 03:59 PM)topcatman Wrote: The conk cant be considered a melt and piur. Though the most common melt and pour i have seen is for pur glycerin hand and body soap. Conk is far from it.

Can you enlighten us on why CC can't be considered a melt and pour? Sure looks like one to me.

Ingredients: Triethanolamine, Glycerine, SLES, Deionized water, Propylene Glycol, Soap Flakes, Stearic Acid, Tetrasoddium EDTA, Polysorbate-20, Color, Fragrance

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 12-18-2015, 06:49 PM
#4
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Col. Conk is most definitely a melt and pour soap.


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 12-18-2015, 07:20 PM
#5
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(12-18-2015, 05:31 PM)shevek Wrote:
(12-18-2015, 03:59 PM)topcatman Wrote: The conk cant be considered a melt and piur. Though the most common melt and pour i have seen is for pur glycerin hand and body soap. Conk is far from it.

Can you enlighten us on why CC can't be considered a melt and pour? Sure looks like one to me.

Ingredients: Triethanalamine, SLES, Deionized water, Propylene Glycol, Soap Flakes, Stearic Acid, Tetrasoddium EDTA, Polysorbate-20, Color, Fragrance
This profile typifies a MAP.
Moreover, CC, and the like, can be (and has been), easily, melted/poured, by the end consumer; the same can't be said of many non-MAP products.

[Image: 9HGHGl0.jpg]
(Admittedly, CC, is better to shave with, than many a run-of-the-mill "glycerin hand and body soap.")

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 12-18-2015, 07:59 PM
#6
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Speaking from experience:

VDH : the first soap I bought and it is pretty good IMO with pleasant scent. 

Colonel Conk Bay Rum: the second soap I bought and I never cared for it much as I found it drying. 

Portus Cale: this one is excellent in every department: glide, skin care and scent. Compared to Martin De Cadre, I prefer Portus Cale by a wide margin save for the scent, maybe. 

I mentioned MDC for a reason: even though it is made of 5 ingridients, besides the scent which is truely unique, I find nothing special about it: performance is not that much better than VDH, and VDH does not dry my skin like MDC. 

I am actually considering Microwaing my puck of VDH and mix it with my favorite cologne and maybe add some other cream to the mix... I have only one puck left so I cannot experiment much but on my next visit to the states I might buy a few and open my artisinal shop Tongue

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 12-18-2015, 09:00 PM
#7
  • Java
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  • Warner Robins, Georgia, USA
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Wow, that's a pretty jar! If this thread goes anywhere, cool container pictures would be great additions to it. After all, I don't know of any melt and pours that I'd consider superior to any of the top drawer soaps out there, but how cool would it be if you could drop a puck of Wool Fat into a pretty jar like that and just pop it into the microwave for a few seconds?

Topcatman: Pyrate Cove soaps (the "olde" spelling evidently had something to do with securing a domain name) scents are all pretty much like their names indicate. To me the Lime and Mandarin (orange) smell more like hard candy versions rather than the actual fruits. As far as the amount of scent, I'd say they are about on par with Col.Conks, not quite are strong as the Williams. As for the Yeti Snot, it is great if you really like menthol (and I do). It's just that if I get the lather too high on my cheeks, my eyes start to water quite a bit. All good fun with a safety razor, with a straight razor - not so much.........

Galhatz; I'm kind of fond of the VdH as well. It was my first "real" shave soap, and I used nothing else for he first few months.

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 12-18-2015, 09:40 PM
#8
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on col. conk.  99% of internet experts and reviewers and retailers say the col. conk line is a pure glycerin soap for us to use. As a result, by nature its as easy to melt in a double boiler as a melt and pour soap.
now a lot of high grade soaps can be melted very easily in a microwave or double boiler. I believe arko, harris, Williams, that I remember from how to articles on badger and blade are easily melted down.


those soaps have a very simple chemical chain that allows the end user to melt them down and put them into a more convenient container. All of those are made as shave soaps from the get go.

its easy to consider anything that is easy to melt and put into a different container as being "melt and pour" but that's false. Just because you can melt down a stick of arko, a puck of Williams, or a puck of col. conk soap and put it into your favorite shaving bowl. Doesn't mean its an actual melt and pour.

The best way to separate soaps that are easy to melt, and actual melt and pour soaps is this.

A melt and pour soap was made by a company, and sold to people to melt down and put into small containers for resale. Meaning, a company made a batch of easily melted soap, sold a 50 pound block to someone, who then MELTED it, and POURED it into small 5 ounce bowls for retail sale.

Col. Conk and similar, merely happen to be soaps that are extremely easy to melt down and put into different containers.

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 12-19-2015, 04:59 AM
#9
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(12-18-2015, 09:40 PM)topcatman Wrote: now a lot of high grade soaps can be melted very easily in a microwave or double boiler. I believe arko, harris, Williams, that I remember from how to articles on badger and blade are easily melted down.
those soaps have a very simple chemical chain that allows the end user to melt them down and put them into a more convenient container. All of those are made as shave soaps from the get go.
its easy to consider anything that is easy to melt and put into a different container as being "melt and pour" but that's false. Just because you can melt down a stick of arko, a puck of Williams, or a puck of col. conk soap and put it into your favorite shaving bowl. Doesn't mean its an actual melt and pour.

The best way to separate soaps that are easy to melt, and actual melt and pour soaps is this.
A melt and pour soap was made by a company, and sold to people to melt down and put into small containers for resale. Meaning, a company made a batch of easily melted soap, sold a 50 pound block to someone, who then MELTED it, and POURED it into small 5 ounce bowls for retail sale.
Col. Conk and similar, merely happen to be soaps that are extremely easy to melt down and put into different containers.
Firstly, triple-milled soaps, such as D.R.Harris, Tabac, C&S, etc., are devoid of the water and air, removed during processing; hence, these soaps are very hard.
Although, any soap (ultimately) can be melted, TMs will not liquefy as easily, as Col Conk. On the other hand, CC will liquify as easily as MAPs sold by companies like Brambleberry or SFIC; the liquefaction points of CC and B/SFIC MAPs, are essentially the same.

Secondly, although CC is sold, ready to be used, versus B/SFIC MAPs - which are meant to be melted/poured, for additives, such as, fragrance or exfoliators - all of those products (CC and B/SFIC) share the same base-ingredients profile; that profile, for better or for the worse, is starkly different from that of TMs and non-map Artisans.

CC and B/SFIC MAPs, simply fit into a certain physicochemical profile, distinct from that of TMs and non-map Artisans; in my view - in essence - CC is in the vein of B/SFIC MAPs, notwithstanding the intention (or lack thereof) to melt.
As far as I'm concerned, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

[Of course, variance of performance is expected within each and every class (MAPs, non-map Artisans, TMs) of shaving agents.]

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 12-19-2015, 05:17 AM
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(12-18-2015, 09:40 PM)topcatman Wrote: A melt and pour soap was made by a company, and sold to people to melt down and put into small containers for resale. Meaning, a company made a batch of easily melted soap, sold a 50 pound block to someone, who then MELTED it, and POURED it into small 5 ounce bowls for retail sale.

Col. Conk and similar, merely happen to be soaps that are extremely easy to melt down and put into different containers.

Quite frankly you are wrong about Col. Conk. It is a melt and pour soap. I think you are making a giant leap off of false assumptions. You seem to be saying that a melt and pour soap is basically taking the bulk ingredients and then turning around and portioning them out. The gives melt and pour makers from bigger ones like VDH to artisans like Mama Bear's short shift to the nth degree.

Furthermore you base these assumptions on no evidence. Based on your other posts here I can't tell if you're just misinformed (you keep talking about these "experts" but I've been involved in these various communities for close to a decade and I've never heard of these "expert theories" you espouse) or if you're trolling.


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 12-19-2015, 05:36 AM
#11
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Using your chemical based concept of quack like duck it must be a duck...

Why do i pay 20$ for automotive touchup paint marker to fix a scratch when any thing from thr intetior latex paint aislr will do?


To say col conk is not a melt and pour soap gets you a beating quicker then sayIng mama bear is not artisan soap

Allthough we all know mama bear scents anx repackages sfic melt and pour soap. Thats classic melt and pour.

But if you say the companies that buy soap noodles from asia that they mix scent package in house offer an inferior product because of that fact. Or that they dont make soap due to them melring down soap components made by someone else...

Its beatdown hammer.

Or type with a small phone and physical handicap... get threatenrd by unknown pro mely and pour moderator with account deletion through a user profile that cant be mrssaged or tracked down to a single person.

Even the other forum that bans people if they dont like mitchells wool fat or posts a bad review of the soap/vendor of thr week goes out of its way to br nice to the handicapped.

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 12-19-2015, 06:13 AM
#12
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You still have not provided any sources at all backing up your accusations. As a fellow shaver and as a moderator I suggest you find sources post haste or drop the accusations.

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 12-19-2015, 06:26 AM
#13
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Like i said before if you want proof mickey lee usEs premade soap they buy send an email so i xan forward samanthas email.

If i post in thread youll ban me for "false" accusations.

All you want is for everyone to say your davorite soaps and vendors Are wonderful.

And for us to say your hated products and vendors are evil crap.

Om sorry your native land of beatds only has a fee people making sjaving soap. So get pver it or go to england like your smarter ancestors did you.
And stop threatebing me over a handicap. The eu would jail you for it

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 12-19-2015, 06:54 AM
#14
  • Java
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I didn't mean to start any sort of controversy. I've always assumed if I could hit it with 2 or 3 10 second blasts in the microwave then pour it, it was a "melt and pour". If the term has to do not with the end user, but the "mixer", I stand corrected. I only meant to show a little love for a class of soaps that tend to be frowned upon by many.

On an unrelated note; Arko melts? All these years I've been grating it!

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 12-19-2015, 07:17 AM
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Meanwhile, back to the OP's topic, have you tried Honeybee Spas? I got started wet shaving before it boomed. There was Mama Bear, Honeybee Soaps, and Saint Charles Shave. They were all run by ladies named Sue. SCS Sue passed away from cancer but her family keeps it going I think. 

I never got around to using SCS. MB felt like using hand soap and the fragrance was too strong (for me) and burned my skin. HBS was was my favorite until "artisans" started hitting the scene. I mainly used HBS and Proraso for a good while. She adds a touch of clay (or did when I bought them) which really helps with slickness/glide. Her Old Spice type is good. Rosemary/Mint is clean and refreshing. I can't remember the others I used. I mainly used her Old Spice. I haven't used her stuff in years though. This thread brings up some nostalgia, and if I didn't have enough soap for two lifetimes, I'd buy a couple pucks for old times sake. 

http://www.honeybeesoaps.net/catalog.php...aving_Soap

http://www.saintcharlesshave.com/soap.asp

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 12-19-2015, 07:26 AM
#16
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I browsed HBS's site after posting, and it seems she's added more things to the M&P base than I remember. Truth be told, I didn't pay much attention to these things (still don't), I just try to find stuff that works for me. I don't care if it has EDTA or SLS or ancient organic alien milk as long as it gives me a good shave without messing up my face. 

I only mention this in case the Shea butter, hempseed oil, and/or vitamin E change the lather or shave in some way. Please PM me if you decide to try HBS. I'm curious to know how it performs these days.

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 12-19-2015, 07:31 AM
#17
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I've never used Honeybee but I've used Mama Bear in the past, and still buy a puck from SCS from time to time. I enjoyed a puck of SCS old spice this year, and have a rose soap for 2016.
Mama Bear's dragon's blood scent was my favorite soap scent for a while, and presto I burned out on it. But the performance of the soap was just fine. Very easy to build a lather.

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 12-19-2015, 08:04 AM
#18
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Mama Bear's soaps are easy to build lather from, but suffers - at least in my opinion - of the same issue as Col Conk; lacking cushion. Still trying to make up my mind to get more of her Awakening Smile

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 12-19-2015, 12:16 PM
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(12-19-2015, 06:26 AM)topcatman Wrote: Like i said before if you want proof mickey lee usEs premade soap they buy send an email so i xan forward samanthas email.

If i post in thread youll ban me for "false" accusations.

All you want is for everyone to say your davorite soaps and vendors Are wonderful.

And for us to say your hated products and vendors are evil crap.

Om sorry your native land of beatds only has a fee people making sjaving soap. So get pver it or go to england like your smarter ancestors did you.
And stop threatebing me over a handicap. The eu would jail you for it

I strongly recommend the post by Topcatman about MLS be deleted. If anyone reads topcatman's post about Mickey Lee being M&P please understand it is totally 100% false. I spoke to MLS owners and they assured me that has never been the case. Anyone that knows anything about soap making would know based on the ingredient list anyway but I wanted to hear it straight from the owner to stop these false accusations from the user Topcatman.

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 12-19-2015, 06:17 PM
#20
  • Teddyboy
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(12-19-2015, 07:31 AM)shevek Wrote: I've never used Honeybee but I've used Mama Bear in the past, and still buy a puck from SCS from time to time. I enjoyed a puck of SCS old spice this year, and have a rose soap for 2016.
Mama Bear's dragon's blood scent was my favorite soap scent for a while, and presto I burned out on it. But the performance of the soap was just fine. Very easy to build a lather.

Me too.  Early on in my wet-shaving journey I used Mama Bear's and thought they were pretty good until I learned a bit about some others.  I have a warm spot in my heart for her soaps, especially dragon's blood.  Very decent stuff.

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