01-19-2016, 08:00 PM
#1
  • Slim
  • Member
  • Tennessee
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Hello,  

 I'm thinking of getting a m1 att razor. In the past I've had bad experiences with stainless razors. I sold my Mongoose on the count of rust. I took really good care of it, but  I didn't think I ought take it apart every shave and dry it. I cleaned it good once a week, and between shave do a dunk in alcohol, but when I would remove the blade there would be serious rust under the blade. Not just little "tea stains" but serious rust that wouldn't all come off. Is the att  a better quality steel? Will I have the same issue with a att? I just don't see the point in taking apart and drying my razor after every shave, that's like washing my car everytime i drive it.

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 01-19-2016, 08:06 PM
#2
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I've never had a problem with stainless razors rusting, and I live in Miami.  However, I do take apart all my razors after I use them, rinse them, and dry them well with a towel. I then let them air dry before putting them back together.  I never store a razor with a blade in it.

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 01-19-2016, 08:08 PM
#3
  • kav
  • Banned
  • east of the sun,west of the moon
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Stainless steel is more properly called stain RESISTANT steel and even the finest can, and will follow the biblical reference to moths and rust. But this sounds like some serious quality issues or a very nasty combination of environmental factors.

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 01-19-2016, 08:10 PM
#4
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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I disassemble every razor after every shave and dry the parts thoroughly before reassembling sans blade.

Wet blades left in any razor is simply asking for rust IMO.

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 01-19-2016, 08:18 PM
#5
  • DayMan
  • Senior Member
  • Tennessee
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I have an ATT and I have not had any issues with rust. I leave my blade in the razor in between shaves.

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 01-19-2016, 08:20 PM
#6
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I've had no issues with rust and wouldn't expect any unless I was doing something wrong.

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 01-19-2016, 08:22 PM
#7
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While disassembling and drying your razors after each use is preferred, I tend to simply loosen the handle a bit on my razors. Just enough to allow some air to get between the blade and top cap. I find that this allows the blade to dry enough and prevent it from rusting and staining the razor.

Still, I've forgotten to do that on occasion and a simple wipe with a soft cloth removes the discoloration completely.

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 01-19-2016, 08:23 PM
#8
  • Slim
  • Member
  • Tennessee
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(01-19-2016, 08:08 PM)kav Wrote: Stainless steel is more properly called stain RESISTANT steel and even the finest can, and will follow the biblical reference to moths and rust. But this sounds like some serious quality issues or a very nasty combination of environmental factors.
I live in Tennessee. I would shave then rinse razor, give a few shakes, then submerge in alcohol for a few minutes. Once a week change blades and clean with a toothbrush very good. The're would be rust every time, and it all wouldn't come off.

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 01-19-2016, 08:28 PM
#9
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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I recently learned an interesting fact about stainless steel; It isn't actually rust-proof. It can oxidize just like all other steel, given the right conditions.

What makes it rust-resistant is a thin, stable, protective barrier formed when some of the alloyed metals react with oxygen. Different alloys form barriers of differing strengths and thicknesses, but the concept is the same for all stainless steel.

During the act of shaving, or maybe even a thorough after-shave cleaning, it is possible to scratch or remove this oxidation layer. Under normal circumstances, it will re-form on its own, but if the blade, or another part of the razor is in direct contact with the unprotected metal, the barrier can't form, and the metal can rust.

So, as long as wet metal isn't in direct contact with other metal, there is no chance of rust. I always towel dry and re-assemble my razors, without the blade, and have never encountered rust. Not a guarantee, because all steel can rust, but if you follow that practice, you should be OK.

Finally, one difference you mentioned was a quick dip in alcohol. All that stuff above I only know from Internet reading. I am not a chemist, and could be wrong about all of it. However, I have never dipped any razor in alcohol after use. Depending on the specific alloy, perhaps that alcohol is disturbing this oxidation layer. If that layer is being dissolved, it could be MUCH more likely for rust to form on any damp area that wasn't exposed to the air.

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 01-19-2016, 08:28 PM
#10
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
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IMO, its like not rinsing all the soap out of your brush after use. Its probably not going to dramatically reduce the life of it, but its not best practise...

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 01-19-2016, 08:34 PM
#11
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Hard water is evil.

I have problems with rust on almost every razor with almost every blade.

I don't take my razor apart unless I'm changing the blade.

Toothpaste works wonders.

I don't own an ATT. Don't know.

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 01-19-2016, 08:37 PM
#12
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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I dig up this quote on a machinists' forum. The author may know less than me, but still, it seems to back up my hypothesis:
Quote:Isopropyl alcohol (even 100% alcohol) will actually rust ferrous metals faster than water.

All alcohols contain oxygen - and it is the oxygen molecules combining with the iron in the blade that causes rust. But alcohol is far less stable than water - it evaporates much quicker than water (thats why it feels "cool" on your face.) And it is this instability that makes it much easier for the alcohol's oxgen molecules to bond with the iron.

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 01-19-2016, 08:45 PM
#13
  • Slim
  • Member
  • Tennessee
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(01-19-2016, 08:37 PM)chamm Wrote: I dig up this quote on a machinists' forum. The author may know less than me, but still, it seems to back up my hypothesis:

Quote:Isopropyl alcohol (even 100% alcohol) will actually rust ferrous metals faster than water.

All alcohols contain oxygen - and it is the oxygen molecules combining with the iron in the blade that causes rust. But alcohol is far less stable than water - it evaporates much quicker than water (thats why it feels "cool" on your face.) And it is this instability that makes it much easier for the alcohol's oxgen molecules to bond with the iron.
Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. Prior to the alcohol I still had rust issues.  I didn't do the alcohol dunks at first, it was my last resort.

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 01-19-2016, 08:50 PM
#14
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(01-19-2016, 08:28 PM)chamm Wrote: I recently learned an interesting fact about stainless steel; It isn't actually rust-proof. It can oxidize just like all other steel, given the right conditions.

What makes it rust-resistant is a thin, stable, protective barrier formed when some of the alloyed metals react with oxygen. Different alloys form barriers of differing strengths and thicknesses, but the concept is the same for all stainless steel.

During the act of shaving, or maybe even a thorough after-shave cleaning, it is possible to scratch or remove this oxidation layer. Under normal circumstances, it will re-form on its own, but if the blade, or another part of the razor is in direct contact with the unprotected metal, the barrier can't form, and the metal can rust.

So, as long as wet metal isn't in direct contact with other metal, there is no chance of rust. I always towel dry and re-assemble my razors, without the blade, and have never encountered rust. Not a guarantee, because all steel can rust, but if you follow that practice, you should be OK.

Finally, one difference you mentioned was a quick dip in alcohol. All that stuff above I only know from Internet reading. I am not a chemist, and could be wrong about all of it. However, I have never dipped any razor in alcohol after use. Depending on the specific alloy, perhaps that alcohol is disturbing this oxidation layer. If that layer is being dissolved, it could be MUCH more likely for rust to form on any damp area that wasn't exposed to the air.

Well put Chamm. I don't usually disassemble but after reading this I might have to start.

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 01-19-2016, 09:05 PM
#15
  • Slim
  • Member
  • Tennessee
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Why doesn't my vintage Gillette plated razors rust? I never take the blade out between shaves, only when it's time for a blade change.

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 01-19-2016, 09:07 PM
#16
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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They're made from brass, which does oxidize, but the oxidation is stable. When iron oxidizes, the resulting material, iron oxide, is not stable, and does not protect the underlying metal.

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 01-19-2016, 09:11 PM
#17
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I think hard water plus differing metals of the razor and blade experiences a magnetic acceleration due to solids in solution. This accelerates the process.
I also believe that because differences in water and products used by every individual varies, this leads to confusion. Accusations and insinuations of mistreatment of hardware or poor care are slung with wild abandon sometimes by those whom do not struggle with such issues. 

My theory at least.

Just because I can't hear a dog whistle doesn't mean it's silent.

Where I get rust is nowhere near any movement or wear. If a shell of oxidation exists it's not at play in this phenomenon. 
Rust develops at the contact points anywhere the cap or bottom encounters the surface of the blade.

The only way I'm aware of to avoid rust is to remove contact and thoroughly dry.

Some blades are much more reactive than others. Voskhods for me are the worst. Shave in the morning - rusty by dinnertime. For me it's real.

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 01-19-2016, 09:14 PM
#18
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Like a chemical battery I meant to say.

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 01-19-2016, 09:17 PM
#19
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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Titanium, copper, aluminum, and many other metals also oxidize, but the oxidation layer formed by those materials is stable and protective. Iron oxide is "flaky" so the oxide layer it forms does not stay on the metal. Any alloy that contains iron has the potential to rust. Brass forms a patina. Silver tarnishes.

Interestingly, gold, for all practical purposes, does not oxidize under normal circumstances. That's one of the reasons it is prized, and why it doesn't lose its luster, even after thousands of years.

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 01-19-2016, 09:20 PM
#20
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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But please remember, and I can't stress this enough... I have a degree in music. There are many others more qualified to comment on this, and correct all the things I said that are wrong!

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