02-18-2016, 03:50 PM
#1
  • kav
  • Banned
  • east of the sun,west of the moon
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I think the shaving community is LONG overdue acknowledging the contributions of Jeff Bezos. He doesn't maintain a shaving forum, give links to other vendors, hold sales or contests for LE bronze razors or make products around the world available- until his staff notices their sales potential. Oh, but he has nice prices and shipping rates that saves people a few bucks on stuff who discovered them on shaving forums. I've noticed recently just how many of us
really appreciate Jeff and hope he wont go out of business from any competition he can't compete with.

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 02-18-2016, 04:19 PM
#2
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My sarcasm radar is off the hook!

Chuck

I heard Jeff invented the peanut butter and jelly sandwich too. Look it up.

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 02-18-2016, 04:51 PM
#3
  • Agravic
  • Super Moderator
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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 02-18-2016, 05:07 PM
#4
  • kav
  • Banned
  • east of the sun,west of the moon
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Nobody will be laughing when the last shaving vendor's website redirects to 'this .com for sale contact...'

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 02-18-2016, 06:54 PM
#5
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Am I the only one that had to Google the name to catch this??

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 02-18-2016, 06:57 PM
#6
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(02-18-2016, 06:54 PM)John Wayne Wrote: Am I the only one that had to Google the name to catch this??

Nope. I had too as well.

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 02-22-2016, 06:25 AM
#7
  • urrlord
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  • central georgia usa
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lol also

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 02-22-2016, 07:40 AM
#8
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Me too.

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 02-22-2016, 07:59 AM
#9
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(02-18-2016, 03:50 PM)kav Wrote: I think the shaving community is LONG overdue acknowledging the contributions of Jeff Bezos. He doesn't maintain a shaving forum, give links to other vendors, hold sales or contests for LE bronze razors or make products around the world available- until his staff notices their sales potential. Oh, but he has nice prices and shipping rates that saves people a few bucks on stuff who discovered them on shaving forums. I've noticed recently just how many of us
really appreciate Jeff and hope he wont go out of business from any competition he can't compete with.

So what, as a consumer and conscionable member of the wet-shaving community, would you seriously recommend for consideration by a small producer who needs to find a cost-effective and otherwise all-around satisfactory solution to the fulfillment challenge?

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 02-22-2016, 08:38 AM
#10
  • kav
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  • east of the sun,west of the moon
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I am a Luddite. Most people buy into the misconception of secular amish types smashing looms or the latest Iphone shipment. Luddites were concerned with their livelihood- that inconvenient means of eating under some manner of shelter from inclement weather. You put the onus of "a  small producer who needs to find a cost effective and otherwise all-around satisfactory solution to the fulfillment challenge"?  On that producer.
In short, You,me; THE CONSUMER has no participatory responsibility. People get an idea. I will sell sugar free marshmellows because people are becoming health conscious but love SMOORS. So they find them in the South of France and import them, maybe start a Smoors forum called THE CAMPFIRE and if another small ENTREPENUER sells gourmet graham crackers or imports Swiss chocolate he can advertise his product.
People embrace these new Smoors. They feel a camaraderie in a world grabbing fastfood with toys, debate campfire temperatures and if the chocolate should be on top or below the marshmellow. Some start making custom titanium sticks to roast the marshmellows.
Then some guy  like Jeff Bezos comes along. Oh gee, I can make money selling sugar free marshmellows too; along with tampons, CDs of Persian oud music and books. I really don't care about sugar free marshmellows or Persian CDs. But I can sell them CHEAPER; almost always by some business practices those first Luddites samshed the looms over.
So the people who discovered the joys of sugar free marshmellow Smoors get all kinds of excited. I can save a few bucks buying from Steve instead of the guy who first imported them from the South of France.
WOW! with such smart consumerism it wont be long before our kids will be working for Jeff and his friends to  eat under some manner of shelter hoping the US Marshalls don't arrest hem for non payment of student loans. The guy who discovered sugar free Smoors starts holding 15% flash sales, passing on reordering
those platinum sticks and periodically notes the closing of another small company, maybe that gourmet graham cracker guy because We saved a few bucks by patronizing Jeff.
WOW! He really needs to get his 'fulfillment challenge' A game up.

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 02-22-2016, 08:45 AM
#11
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(02-22-2016, 08:38 AM)kav Wrote: You put the onus of "a  small producer who needs to find a cost effective and otherwise all-around satisfactory solution to the fulfillment challenge"?  On that producer.

Yes, I suppose I do. I am such a producer, and so I have placed myself under that burden.

You seemed to have a relevant point of view. I sincerely and respectfully requested potentially helpful clarification/elaboration.

Simple as that. Nothing more; nothing between the lines.

It's a problem I have to deal with. It might also be of interest to others. Your post prompted the question.

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 02-22-2016, 08:54 AM
#12
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(02-22-2016, 08:45 AM)Chiefbroom Wrote:
(02-22-2016, 08:38 AM)kav Wrote: You put the onus of "a  small producer who needs to find a cost effective and otherwise all-around satisfactory solution to the fulfillment challenge"?  On that producer.

Yes, I suppose I do. I am such a producer, and so I have placed myself under that burden.

You seemed to have a relevant point of view. I sincerely and respectfully requested potentially helpful clarification/elaboration.

Simple as that. Nothing more; nothing between the lines.

It's a problem I have to deal with. It might also be of interest to others. Your post prompted the question.

Just to clarify on my part. I wasn't sure I understood your OP, but I'd like to.

Amazon.com offers fulfillment services. It has a center very close to us. It crossed my mind to wonder whether we might be well-served to look into it. I just haven't got around to that yet. I know amazon.com is not universally well-regarded. I don't know much about that, but if there are ethical considerations we should weigh and/or potential risks to reputation through association I want to identify and evaluate them.

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 02-22-2016, 09:23 AM
#13
  • kav
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There are ethics and there are self interests. Jeff Bezos self interest is to dominate market share. Jeff Bezos doesn't give a damn about wetshaving. It is in our self interest to patronize those that do.

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 02-22-2016, 09:37 AM
#14
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(02-22-2016, 09:23 AM)kav Wrote: There are ethics and there are self interests. Jeff Bezos self interest is to dominate market share. Jeff Bezos doesn't give a damn about wetshaving. It is in our self interest to patronize those that do.

My dilemma is this. I can make more brushes and do other things I care about (e.g., design handles, write about wet-shaving stuff, talk to others about wet-shaving stuff, spend time with family, walk the dog, etc.) if I find some way to free-up time spent on non-brush-making activities like fulfillment, book-keeping, etc.

Whoever might be able to provide cost-effective and otherwise satisfactory (the big question) fulfillment services doesn't have to give a damn about wet-shaving to serve my purposes. But if one of our brushes showing up at a customer's door in amazon.com outer packaging could damage our reputation or in some significant way do harm to the community we exist to serve, then that's something I'd want to consider.

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 02-22-2016, 09:47 AM
#15
  • kav
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Imagine Bullgoose, West Coast. Lee and others closing. Imagine this forum closing. Imagine the other forums closing. Amazon is only my poster boy for this concern because I've never stepped foot back  in any 'big box' or online giant because I workd for one and frankly, hate their guts for putting corporate interests above any social responsibility whatsoever. I see giddy posts about scoring a shaving product on Amazon at a great price discovered in the shaving community  and feel like Cassandra in Homer's short story.

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 02-22-2016, 10:31 AM
#16
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(02-22-2016, 09:47 AM)kav Wrote: Imagine Bullgoose, West Coast. Lee and others closing. Imagine this forum closing. Imagine the other forums closing. Amazon is only my poster boy for this concern because I've never stepped foot back  in any 'big box' or online giant because I workd for one and frankly, hate their guts for putting corporate interests above any social responsibility whatsoever. I see giddy posts about scoring a shaving product on Amazon at a great price discovered in the shaving community  and feel like Cassandra in Homer's short story.

Yes, so be clear that I am respecting your point of view, and in fact I share your sensibilities.

I couldn't tell for sure, but I thought you might have not been considering all aspects of the issue.

One of those is that amazon.com does more than just maintain a Walmart-like presence in the world of e-commerce. It also provides reportedly unsurpassed, stand-alone fulfillment services that can -- or at least so some claim -- enhance the efficiency and competitiveness of small producer-sellers.

So, to extend your argument, what if we were to fail because we didn't do a cost-effective job of outsourcing services (e.g., fulfillment) we aren't best positioned to provide ourselves?

And I'm sure you're right about the giddy-post, Cassandra, etc. observation, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to me. 

I'm not talking about selling on amazon.com. I'm asking generally for thoughts and suggestions regarding socially responsible ways to successfully meet fulfillment challenges. My situation is that we have a home-based shop and have run out of room. We can't afford to hire someone to come in and help with fulfillment, and if we did I'd be in violation of home-owners association covenants and municipal ordinances, as well as faced with the tax-reporting and workers-comp responsibilities. We're already overwhelmed by what we're trying to get done with six hands. And I hate dealing with administrative crap. You see, I seem to be caught in a crack in your paradigm.

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 02-22-2016, 03:15 PM
#17
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What is "social responsibility"?  Assuring that small businesses can compete fairly with larger corporations?

Amazon.com and the like aren't the evil ones here.  Ultimately, it's individual consumers that make choices that drive enterprise.  Ever consider that by Amazon.com creating hundreds of thousands of jobs they have lifted many idnidviduals out of poverty and made life better for those people?

Trains gave way to planes.  If not for ingenuity, engineering and will power, we would still be crossing the country in covered wagons.

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 02-22-2016, 03:53 PM
#18
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(02-22-2016, 03:15 PM)CyanideMetal Wrote: What is "social responsibility"?  Assuring that small businesses can compete fairly with larger corporations?

Amazon.com and the like aren't the evil ones here.  Ultimately, it's individual consumers that make choices that drive enterprise.  Ever consider that by Amazon.com creating hundreds of thousands of jobs they have lifted many idnidviduals out of poverty and made life better for those people?

Trains gave way to planes.  If not for ingenuity, engineering and will power, we would still be crossing the country in covered wagons.

Agree. I'm all for small business owners I am. I'll support a small business if I can. However I have a family . If I need something I'm going to shop around and find whatever I need for the cheapest price. I work for my cash and if I can save a few bucks here and there by shopping on amazon so be it. 

I know a few times I've bought something off amazon , only to look and notice I was actually buying the product from a company I already do business with. 

People are in business to make money, I feel like I have a responsibility as a parent to my children to not be out here spending extra money on personal beliefs. I can't call the power company and tell them I can't pay my light bill because I don't like amazon.Com so I had to spend some extra money on my shave gear to support a smaller vendor it just doesn't work.

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 02-22-2016, 04:04 PM
#19
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(02-22-2016, 03:53 PM)John Wayne Wrote:
(02-22-2016, 03:15 PM)CyanideMetal Wrote: What is "social responsibility"?  Assuring that small businesses can compete fairly with larger corporations?

Amazon.com and the like aren't the evil ones here.  Ultimately, it's individual consumers that make choices that drive enterprise.  Ever consider that by Amazon.com creating hundreds of thousands of jobs they have lifted many idnidviduals out of poverty and made life better for those people?

Trains gave way to planes.  If not for ingenuity, engineering and will power, we would still be crossing the country in covered wagons.

Agree. I'm all for small business owners I am. I'll support a small business if I can. However I have a family . If I need something I'm going to shop around and find whatever I need for the cheapest price. I work for my cash and if I can save a few bucks here and there by shopping on amazon so be it. 

I know a few times I've bought something off amazon , only to look and notice I was actually buying the product from a company I already do business with. 

People are in business to make money, I feel like I have a responsibility as a parent to my children to not be out here spending extra money on personal beliefs. I can't call the power company and tell them I can't pay my light bill because I don't like amazon.Com so I had to spend some extra money on my shave gear to support a smaller vendor it just doesn't work.

I understand where your coming from and what your saying Kav, but I have to agree with John on this one. Exactly how I feel on it.

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 02-22-2016, 04:29 PM
#20
  • kav
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  • east of the sun,west of the moon
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So, would you guys pay a subscription fee to see this website and other shaving forums continue? It is the information available here that makes us informed consumers. How many people go into a B&M store to pick the sales staff brains , fondle the product, buy said product from a larger retailer and then complain when entire shopping centers become vacant eyesores, the local tax revenue drops and that proposed teen center doesn't get built?
What price, what value would you consider fair, competitive market value to see this, and other forums and vendors who will stock unknown shaving products continue?
What would you pay for Jeff's sage insights into razors VS Phil or lee's? I know what he'd reply, being so busy pushing those 'hundreds of thousands' of employees  with the environment of a STAZI police station and  pace of Lewis Carrol's Chess Queen.

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