07-19-2012, 08:39 AM
#1
User Info
One of our members asked me in a PM the following:
Would it matter to members of this forum if a member was banned from a similar forum?
Would you feel less likely to purchase something knowing that the member you were considering purchasing from was so banned?

My answer to him was that although I thought it might vary from member to member, for the most part people here would judge him only on his record here. And I suggested that while it may not be wise or necessary to shout out about having been banned, it also is not something needing to be hidden; and so long as he is honest in his posts and transactions here, his reputation should be fine. I was banned (wrongfully) at another forum, but it did not keep the administrators here from asking me to be a mod, and I don't think it has hurt my buying and selling here at all.

What are your thoughts?

183 12,002
Reply
 07-19-2012, 08:46 AM
#2
  • freddy
  • Senior Member
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
User Info
The only problem with that, John, is that our rule #1 in the Selling and Trading thread is as follows:

1. To sell or trade you must have 25 posts to your credit. You may buy before reaching 25 posts. Members banned at other forums for improper sales will not be permitted to sell here.


Therefore, if the member was banned from another site specifically for an improper sale, he or she would not be permitted to sell something here. If the ban was related to something else, especially if the ban was questionable, then I don't see a problem and I think what you stated is on target.

2 11,211
Reply
 07-19-2012, 08:51 AM
#3
User Info
Right, thanks for clarifying that, Freddy. However, I would hazard that what a mod at another forum deemed an "improper sale" may in fact not have been improper in any way whatsoever. The accuracy and appropriateness of such judgments appeart to vary considerably from forum to forum and perhaps from mod to mod on those forums. If a member here has a question about another member's history elsewhere, he can bring it to the attention of our mods.

183 12,002
Reply
 07-19-2012, 09:02 AM
#4
User Info
I think that appeals are extremely important. Just look at the court system and how many cases get completely overturned in appeals court for having a different set of eyes looking at the situation from a new vantage.

Shaving forums do not offer an appeals process typically. The mod/admin decisions tend to be unilateral and you only make things worse by calling into question those who made the decision. So our appeals process rests in being able to frequent a different shaving forum. If someone was banned for a legitimate reason then I'm sure it will be apparent here as well and they won't be here long. While the ban-hammer hurts, it's not going to change the person's character if that was the problem to begin with. Remember innocent until proven guilty? I do find it funny though that we all know this concept of innocent until proven guilty yet the defendant is asked to enter a plea of guilty or not-guilty. Shouldn't it be innocent or not-innocent if we hold true to our beliefs and where the burden of proof lies?

31 7,912
Reply
 07-19-2012, 09:05 AM
#5
User Info
How to answer... in my world respect is earned, not given. If someone act honest and up front with me, I'm inclined to trust them - I do believe that all people are basically good people until they have proven the opposite.

I don't frequent other shaving forums much, and what other people in other places gets up to don't affect my opinions. Someone's actions on this board on the other hand... but then again that is why we have the ezTraderSystem easily available, right Wink ?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't really care much one way or the other. If someone was banned from another forum and decided to let us know, I would actually count it in his favour; he would be letting us know something that isn't to his benefit. If he decides not to tell us; well, it's not really relevant to this forum and his actions here, is it?

3 3,562
Reply
 07-19-2012, 09:28 AM
#6
User Info
(07-19-2012, 08:39 AM)churchilllafemme Wrote: Would it matter to members of this forum if a member was banned from a similar forum?
Would you feel less likely to purchase something knowing that the member you were considering purchasing from was so banned?

Simpsons was banned on a certain large shaving forum. That fact did not stop me from purchasing their LE Rover (which is a really excellent brush) and wouldn't impact any future purchasing decisions.

12 1,243
Reply
 07-19-2012, 09:33 AM
#7
User Info
I used to moderate forums, both company support and private fansites. When a member is banned from another forum I don't take it as a personal statement on that persons rep. It may have been a mod clash, a rakefight, a drunken Friday night etc.

The fansite and enthusiast forums I have found that work well are ones that allow users to make their own decisions on a members behavior. On many we never deleted or edited posts unless it would result in legal action against the site. This allowed the users to make up their own mind about the posters behavior be reading it themselves. When ever we banned a user we made a post in the Feedback forum ...User X banned for the following rules violation or behavior... with a link to the violation and allowed users to comment. The ban was rarely reversed but it did happen occasionally. In general being as open as possible so members can see the moderation in process helps any ill feelings. YMMV

2 697
Reply
 07-19-2012, 09:47 AM
#8
  • freddy
  • Senior Member
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
User Info
Gents, I agree with everything that has been posted so far. Indeed, my sympathies are much more in line with John's thinking than not. I was only pointing out the rule as it is stated.

Having pointed that out, the one thing that makes it great to be on the admin/mod team here is that we really do look at various problems as they come up, discuss them, agree, disagree, and, ultimately, come to a consensus. It isn't always easy but it does work. As a moderator, I have been on both the "winning" side and "losing" side of some of these decisions but I have to say that those decisions have helped make The Shave Nook grow into a place that I really want to be and, from the looks of it, so do more than 700 others.

2 11,211
Reply
 07-19-2012, 10:02 AM
#9
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
User Info
We are an open world wide "SHAVING" forum and all are welcome. You abide by the simple rules we have posted and you will be among internet shaving friends. You consistently break the rules, you are gone.

It is just that simple with me.

173 23,504
Reply
 07-19-2012, 10:07 AM
#10
User Info
people can choose to buy or interact with (pm, quote, use they ignore function) from whomever they choose, and unless they were banned for fraudulent selling or similar infractions, i would not hesitate to buy from anyone banned on other sites, so long as their reputation is in good standing.

as for posting, i have no issues with members banned from others forums posting on here and offering their knowledge and insight.

getting banned, bootted or choosing to leave another site, might be something as simple as mentioning certain vendors or products, butting heads with mods etc or even less

8 2,718
Reply
 07-19-2012, 10:24 AM
#11
User Info
By the way, I want to say it's really refreshing to see this kind of discussion.

12 1,243
Reply
 07-19-2012, 11:06 AM
#12
User Info
Well, like any situation in life, I think there should be no hard and fast rules about this.

People can get banned for all sorts of reasons - disagreeing with mods, having a hissy-fit, and generally stepping on the toes of people in power, etc. Those sorts of bans can be learning experiences, and may result in the individual becoming a more complete adult.

The person could also just be victimized on a forum and get banned.

When it comes to BST fraud, things are a bit more problematic. It generally takes more than one instance of fraud to get banned on a forum, and generally mods/admins try and sort things out amicably. However, there were several instances of large-scale BST fraud over on B&B (which was more susceptible to this because of its size), and the individuals were pretty brazen about it. The mods took the only action they could at the time, and banned the individuals.

If those individuals show up here, and we notice them, I think we must ban them outright. Knowing they have perpetrated large-scale fraud on other forums and doing nothing would be abetting them (pretty much).

Remember, the whole premise of a con is that the con-man makes everyone believe that he's a great guy who can be trusted. So protestations of having turned over a new leaf are suspect.

Saying that people have a choice of doing business with these individuals or not is not really a good argument, as generally people tend to trust each other on the forums. A newbie is unlikely to know who has a 'history' on other forums.

37 1,731
Reply
 07-19-2012, 11:11 AM
#13
User Info
So, to give my answer to the guy who contacted you, John-

It would depend on why he was banned. If it was BST fraud, I'd require an explanation of the situation, I'd contact the mods at the forum that the banning happened, to corroborate the story, and probably insist that he/she not attempt to buy, sell or trade anything on this forum (at the very least).

For other reasons, he'd get the benefit of the doubt and would be free to participate until he breaks the rules here.

37 1,731
Reply
 07-19-2012, 11:29 AM
#14
User Info
Actually, he wasn't banned, but he had seen a thread here started by someone that he knew had been banned elsewhere, and he was just wondering if he should bring it to someone's attention.

(07-19-2012, 11:11 AM)yohannrjm Wrote: So, to give my answer to the guy who contacted you, John-

It would depend on why he was banned. If it was BST fraud, I'd require an explanation of the situation, I'd contact the mods at the forum that the banning happened, to corroborate the story, and probably insist that he/she not attempt to buy, sell or trade anything on this forum (at the very least).

For other reasons, he'd get the benefit of the doubt and would be free to participate until he breaks the rules here.

183 12,002
Reply
 07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
#15
  • freddy
  • Senior Member
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
User Info
John, that goes back to all of the things that you pointed out in your original post. I think what all of us have seen is that many of these things are not all black or all white.

2 11,211
Reply
 07-19-2012, 11:36 AM
#16
User Info
Great discussion on an important topic. This is why this site is fantastic.

75 20,883
Reply
 07-19-2012, 11:37 AM
#17
User Info
(07-19-2012, 11:34 AM)freddy Wrote: John, that goes back to all of the things that you pointed out in your original post. I think what all of us have seen is that many of these things are not all black or all white.

Right. I think a good rule of thumb is: If in doubt, contact a mod. We may not know "the answer," but we'll definitely think about the question, discuss it, and come up with a response of some kind.

183 12,002
Reply
 07-19-2012, 11:50 AM
#18
User Info
(07-19-2012, 11:37 AM)churchilllafemme Wrote: Right. I think a good rule of thumb is: If in doubt, contact a mod. We may not know "the answer," but we'll definitely think about the question, discuss it, and come up with a response of some kind.

gread advise. it's nice to see TSN mods and admins not only talk openly about this stuff, but initiate the discussions, giving their thoughts and opinionis on this topic.

8 2,718
Reply
 07-19-2012, 11:53 AM
#19
User Info
I absolutely agree, John.

37 1,731
Reply
 07-19-2012, 12:26 PM
#20
User Info
Kudos to the mods here discussing this in the open. Mind you, I'm not one for everything being an open discussion. Sometimes 'management' just needs to make a decision. Otherwise we can end up [Image: Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif].

Not in this case. I believe here we are more or less figuring out how this little space of the www. will go forward. I, for one, appreciate this management looking for input.

I would just like to add that I agree with Dan (SteelTown) on mods posting if someone is banned and the reason for it, in some form or another. In this particular case more information is definitely needed.

Just my 2c.

2 546
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)