04-17-2016, 08:33 PM
#1
User Info
I once bought the Barrister & Mann black series (3 of them) at shavingstation, but they no longer carry the brand.

Anyone knows where I can get them in an online shop in Europe ?

24 5,837
Reply
 04-17-2016, 10:32 PM
#2
User Info
(04-17-2016, 08:33 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: I once bought the black series (3 of them) at shavingstation, but they no longer carry the brand.

Anyone knows where I can get them in an online shop in Europe ?

The EU regulations for the commercial import of US artisan soaps are very high.
At the moment no online shop in Europe for B&M or any US artisan soap.

0 50
Reply
 04-18-2016, 01:01 AM
#3
User Info
very bad news ... I love B&M and LASS soaps!

3 105
Reply
 04-18-2016, 01:21 AM
#4
User Info
(04-18-2016, 01:01 AM)zennhorst Wrote: very bad news ... I love B&M and LASS soaps!

Do not misunderstand. The private sale directly by B & M and other is possible - with high shipping costs.

0 50
Reply
 04-18-2016, 01:24 AM
#5
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
User Info
The vendors have to comply with the EU regulations. From what I know, it's not legal to sell American artisan products in Europe without being approved first.  And this is not very easy. The laws are stricter for cosmetics in Europe that they are in America. That's why you see dozens of artisans making soap in US but not too many in EU. Also, if a vendor wants to start selling American artisan products legally in Europe, he has to pay a lot of money on import and other kinds of taxes. It can be thousands of euros for each one of them. 


I just love it when I see two almost identical or exactly the same threads in two different forums from the same member, especially when the answers in the questions of the OP that are made from the same members that participate in both forums are exactly or almost the same as well. I'm glad I participate only here, it must be hard for some of you guys. I use to read a couple of shaving forums. It's like the Groundhog Day most of the times. I just wanted to say that a long time, I wish I don't insult anyone with that, it's not my intention.

49 1,938
Reply
 04-18-2016, 02:34 AM
#6
User Info
(04-18-2016, 01:21 AM)muelex Wrote:
(04-18-2016, 01:01 AM)zennhorst Wrote: very bad news ... I love B&M and LASS soaps!

Do not misunderstand. The private sale directly by B & M and other is possible - with high shipping costs.

I know, but shipping costs kills Sad

3 105
Reply
 04-18-2016, 03:08 AM
#7
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
User Info
All European wet shavers know that shipping from the States can be very expensive, personally I've paid a lot of money, but there are some products that deserve it. B&M and Dapper Dragon soaps, but also the Mongoose razor, are some of them. 

One of the most important things to me about the pricing etc. is that the American artisan soaps are not overpriced, in contrast with some European. So, it's not so difficult to pay the expensive shipping cost. Our American fellows must find it a lot more difficult to buy some overpriced European artisan soaps and on top of that pay the expensive shipping cost, which sometimes can be a deal killer.

49 1,938
Reply
 04-18-2016, 04:33 AM
#8
User Info
(04-18-2016, 01:24 AM)nikos.a Wrote: The vendors have to comply with the EU regulations. From what I know, it's not legal to sell American artisan products in Europe without being approved first.  And this is not very easy. The laws are stricter for cosmetics in Europe that they are in America. That's why you see dozens of artisans making soap in US but not too many in EU. Also, if a vendor wants to start selling American artisan products legally in Europe, he has to pay a lot of money on import and other kinds of taxes. It can be thousands of euros for each one of them. 


[....]

It's not legal to sell artisan cosmetic products without being approved first, period. Not only American, but also EU-made products must comply with EU rules. And many members just say that in EU, there are too many rules, that they are difficult to follow and blah blah blah.

But if a small artisan like e.g.: Sharon (Nanny's Silly Soaps), Manuel (JabonMan) or Catherin (Calani) can follow the rules while producing a good product at a competitive price, others may do it as well, if they want. I truly respect the many European soap artisans that strive to produce a good product, while struggle to comply with the rules currently existent in the EU. Trying to bypass the rules is being dishonest, to say the least.

But the responsibility lies not on the producer but on the entity that imports and distributes the product. If you want to sell and distribute a product in the EU (and collect a profit from that activity), it's fair that you have to make sure that all the laws and rules related to that product are fulfilled.


(04-18-2016, 03:08 AM)nikos.a Wrote: All European wet shavers know that shipping from the States can be very expensive, personally I've paid a lot of money, but there are some products that deserve it. B&M and Dapper Dragon soaps, but also the Mongoose razor, are some of them. 

One of the most important things to me about the pricing etc. is that the American artisan soaps are not overpriced, in contrast with some European. So, it's not so difficult to pay the expensive shipping cost. Our American fellows must find it a lot more difficult to buy some overpriced European artisan soaps and on top of that pay the expensive shipping cost, which sometimes can be a deal killer.


There are overpriced products in either side of the pond... not only in EU.
Luckily, there are also great products at a good price in either side of the pond, also. Smile

2 5,545
Reply
 04-18-2016, 04:56 AM
#9
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
User Info
To my way of thinking, if selling American artisan products was legal and in compliance with the strict European laws, almost every vendor would like to sell them. 
A few weeks ago, I was looking to make an order from Tvbshaving. If you look at his site, you will see some American artisan soaps. Probably, he was selling them without them being approved. What he did after a while was putting a sign in his homepage informing all his customers that all the American products have been disabled from being shipped to all European countries due to EU regulations.
Again, if it was that easy, every vendor would sell them, be sure for that.

49 1,938
Reply
 04-18-2016, 04:58 AM
#10
User Info
(04-18-2016, 03:08 AM)nikos.a Wrote: All European wet shavers know that shipping from the States can be very expensive, personally I've paid a lot of money, but there are some products that deserve it. B&M and Dapper Dragon soaps, but also the Mongoose razor, are some of them. 

One of the most important things to me about the pricing etc. is that the American artisan soaps are not overpriced, in contrast with some European. So, it's not so difficult to pay the expensive shipping cost. Our American fellows must find it a lot more difficult to buy some overpriced European artisan soaps and on top of that pay the expensive shipping cost, which sometimes can be a deal killer.

Import-retailers like Bullgoose and Italian Barber defray the costs considerably by buying in bulk and saving us a bit vs. buying separately. Also thanks to VAT-free and price differences in various EU zones like Slovenia, we can get great prices on Haslinger and Floid even compared to Europeans.

I just bought a couple jars of Esbjerg from their physical boutique in Vienna last week, and paid $19.xx per jar. In the US I'd pay $24 per jar from Bullgoose, so it's not a big deal.

(Sorry to derail slightly)

Back on the topic of B&M in Europe, both Will and John Brown (LA Shaving Soap) have said the EU cosmetics regulations are extremely complex and strict, which prevents smaller operations like artisan soaps to effectively sell there. Since the regulations only cover sale by European retailers, you can use the "loophole" of buying direct from the US and paying a lot more shipping.

15 1,018
Reply
 04-18-2016, 02:42 PM
#11
User Info
(04-18-2016, 04:58 AM)crazindndude Wrote:    Import-retailers like Bullgoose and Italian Barber defray the costs considerably by buying in bulk and saving us a bit vs. buying separately. Also thanks to VAT-free and price differences in various EU zones like Slovenia, we can get great prices on Haslinger and Floid even compared to Europeans.

   I just bought a couple jars of Esbjerg from their physical boutique in Vienna last week, and paid $19.xx per jar. In the US I'd pay $24 per jar from Bullgoose, so it's not a big deal.



Floïd? Esbjerg? I thought we were talking about artisan soaps and soapmakers, man...  Dodgy
Even Haslinger costs ~€4 in German shops and ebay - and about the double in the US.



(04-18-2016, 04:58 AM)crazindndude Wrote: Back on the topic of B&M in Europe, both Will and John Brown (LA Shaving Soap) have said the EU cosmetics regulations are extremely complex and strict, which prevents smaller operations like artisan soaps to effectively sell there. Since the regulations only cover sale by European retailers, you can use the "loophole" of buying direct from the US and paying a lot more shipping.

Complex and strict? Ha!

Hard to believe in that, considering the many small artisans that produce and/or sell in Europe, and simultaneously are able to follow the rules while putting a good product in the market at a nice price.

If such small artisans can do it, I see no reason why the US artisans can't do the same, if they were willing to do so.

2 5,545
Reply
 04-18-2016, 02:51 PM
#12
User Info
(04-18-2016, 03:08 AM)nikos.a Wrote: All European wet shavers know that shipping from the States can be very expensive, personally I've paid a lot of money, but there are some products that deserve it. B&M and Dapper Dragon soaps, but also the Mongoose razor, are some of them. 

One of the most important things to me about the pricing etc. is that the American artisan soaps are not overpriced, in contrast with some European. So, it's not so difficult to pay the expensive shipping cost. Our American fellows must find it a lot more difficult to buy some overpriced European artisan soaps and on top of that pay the expensive shipping cost, which sometimes can be a deal killer.

Depends on how the USD is doing against the Euro Nikos  24 Could be hard one day, and easy the next! All i know is I got my Chubby 2 at a great time

0 517
Reply
 04-18-2016, 02:54 PM
#13
User Info
(04-18-2016, 02:51 PM)DamnitGoose Wrote:
(04-18-2016, 03:08 AM)nikos.a Wrote: All European wet shavers know that shipping from the States can be very expensive, personally I've paid a lot of money, but there are some products that deserve it. B&M and Dapper Dragon soaps, but also the Mongoose razor, are some of them. 

One of the most important things to me about the pricing etc. is that the American artisan soaps are not overpriced, in contrast with some European. So, it's not so difficult to pay the expensive shipping cost. Our American fellows must find it a lot more difficult to buy some overpriced European artisan soaps and on top of that pay the expensive shipping cost, which sometimes can be a deal killer.

Depends on how the USD is doing against the Euro Nikos  24 Could be hard one day, and easy the next! All i know is I got my Chubby 2 at a great time

This! Biggrin Biggrin

I made some nice deals from the US some years ago! Biggrin Buying from the US is not so nice nowadays!  Sad Tongue

2 5,545
Reply
 04-18-2016, 04:25 PM
#14
User Info
(04-18-2016, 01:24 AM)nikos.a Wrote: The vendors have to comply with the EU regulations. From what I know, it's not legal to sell American artisan products in Europe without being approved first.  And this is not very easy. The laws are stricter for cosmetics in Europe that they are in America. That's why you see dozens of artisans making soap in US but not too many in EU. Also, if a vendor wants to start selling American artisan products legally in Europe, he has to pay a lot of money on import and other kinds of taxes. It can be thousands of euros for each one of them. 


I just love it when I see two almost identical or exactly the same threads in two different forums from the same member, especially when the answers in the questions of the OP that are made from the same members that participate in both forums are exactly or almost the same as well. I'm glad I participate only here, it must be hard for some of you guys. I use to read a couple of shaving forums. It's like the Groundhog Day most of the times. I just wanted to say that a long time, I wish I don't insult anyone with that, it's not my intention.

Nikos, they ARE identical.
And yes I know a lot of members here are also members there now, but still this forum is a good deal larger and have far more members than the other forum, so I found it relevant to post the same in both forums.
You also have Will (the owner of B&M) very present and active on the other forum and not here any longer.

I value both forums HIGHLY and have a lot of respect for the members and moderators on both forums.

But I agree, I also sometimes shake my head, when I read identical posts posted on both forums, but still acknowledge the reasoning behind doing so.

24 5,837
Reply
 04-18-2016, 04:38 PM
#15
User Info
(04-18-2016, 02:42 PM)oversaturn Wrote:
(04-18-2016, 04:58 AM)crazindndude Wrote:    Import-retailers like Bullgoose and Italian Barber defray the costs considerably by buying in bulk and saving us a bit vs. buying separately. Also thanks to VAT-free and price differences in various EU zones like Slovenia, we can get great prices on Haslinger and Floid even compared to Europeans.

   I just bought a couple jars of Esbjerg from their physical boutique in Vienna last week, and paid $19.xx per jar. In the US I'd pay $24 per jar from Bullgoose, so it's not a big deal.



Floïd? Esbjerg? I thought we were talking about artisan soaps and soapmakers, man...  Dodgy
Even Haslinger costs ~€4 in German shops and ebay - and about the double in the US.




(04-18-2016, 04:58 AM)crazindndude Wrote: Back on the topic of B&M in Europe, both Will and John Brown (LA Shaving Soap) have said the EU cosmetics regulations are extremely complex and strict, which prevents smaller operations like artisan soaps to effectively sell there. Since the regulations only cover sale by European retailers, you can use the "loophole" of buying direct from the US and paying a lot more shipping.

Complex and strict? Ha!

Hard to believe in that, considering the many small artisans that produce and/or sell in Europe, and simultaneously are able to follow the rules while putting a good product in the market at a nice price.

If such small artisans can do it, I see no reason why the US artisans can't do the same, if they were willing to do so.

I agree 110%

If Tabula Rasa, Le Pere Lucien, Savon des volcans Bon Berger, Savonniere du Moulin and Pannacrema Nuavia can do it, so can the US artisans.
Especially companies like Barrister & Mann, Cold River Soap Works and Caties Bubbles are now so popular, they ought to have a Euro sales partner.

But I will just buy my soaps directly from Will at B&M, and from Larry at CRSW. No problem at all.

I just have a new found respect for the better artisan soap makers now, and I now feel they make such a soild great product, that they can not only compete with the big names, they can overtake them in the longer run.

The big beer brands in denmark are Carlsberg, Tuborg and Royal. They still sell a LOT of beer.
But the smaller artisan beer makers are REALLY starting to overtake the market - at least from my perspective. I have not bought a regular pilsner in 10+ years now.
I only buy the artisan made beer now. Okay. Carlsberg also makes 'artisan type' special beer, which I also buy, becaue it's great.
But I mainly buy the smaller artisan brewed special beerrs.

If artisan can compete on the beer market, so can soap makers in the soap market.

Just now I'm drinking a Raasted (never heard of them before, a Danish special artisan beer brewer - just saw them at my local supermarket and bought 3 bottles) Coffee Stout beer, that tastes fantastic.

I used to ridicule the soap artisans because of their less than proefessional packaging and weird scents.
Now that I have foound CRSW Select, Caties Bubbles and B&M (knowing Will is a frag head like myself) I have a new found high respect for the artisans.

24 5,837
Reply
 04-18-2016, 05:48 PM
#16
User Info
(04-18-2016, 04:38 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: If Tabula Rasa, Le Pere Lucien, Savon des volcans Bon Berger, Savonniere du Moulin and Pannacrema Nuavia can do it, so can the US artisans.
I agree. The main/only issue is the listing of (potential) allergens (e.g. linalool, cinnamal, etc.) typically present in the fragrance, which I imagine shouldn't be all that difficult to produce.
As you can see most of the soaps you mentioned above, list these substances; Nuavia doesn't list fragrance allergens though, which is peculiar.

0 419
Reply
 04-18-2016, 10:16 PM
#17
User Info
...it's come to my attention that, among some of the logistics/expenses, apparently there is reluctance on the part of some EU importers to take on legal responsibility for non-EU products (especially for smaller brands). However, I've also read that B&M is working on certification for the EU market.

0 419
Reply
 04-19-2016, 02:07 AM
#18
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
User Info
(04-18-2016, 04:25 PM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(04-18-2016, 01:24 AM)nikos.a Wrote: The vendors have to comply with the EU regulations. From what I know, it's not legal to sell American artisan products in Europe without being approved first.  And this is not very easy. The laws are stricter for cosmetics in Europe that they are in America. That's why you see dozens of artisans making soap in US but not too many in EU. Also, if a vendor wants to start selling American artisan products legally in Europe, he has to pay a lot of money on import and other kinds of taxes. It can be thousands of euros for each one of them. 


I just love it when I see two almost identical or exactly the same threads in two different forums from the same member, especially when the answers in the questions of the OP that are made from the same members that participate in both forums are exactly or almost the same as well. I'm glad I participate only here, it must be hard for some of you guys. I use to read a couple of shaving forums. It's like the Groundhog Day most of the times. I just wanted to say that a long time, I wish I don't insult anyone with that, it's not my intention.

Nikos, they ARE identical.
And yes I know a lot of members here are also members there now, but still this forum is a good deal larger and have far more members than the other forum, so I found it relevant to post the same in both forums.
You also have Will (the owner of B&M) very present and active on the other forum and not here any longer.

I value both forums HIGHLY and have a lot of respect for the members and moderators on both forums.

But I agree, I also sometimes shake my head, when I read identical posts posted on both forums, but still acknowledge the reasoning behind doing so.
You're right, Claus. I wish I had more free time to participate in more than one shaving forum.

49 1,938
Reply
 04-19-2016, 05:01 AM
#19
User Info
(04-18-2016, 05:48 PM)ask4Edge Wrote: Nuavia doesn't list fragrance allergens though, which is peculiar.
Actually, I received confirmation from the company that the allergens in their fragrances are way below the limit at which it's mandatory to list them on the packaging.

0 419
Reply
 04-19-2016, 05:58 AM
#20
User Info
(04-18-2016, 04:38 PM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(04-18-2016, 02:42 PM)oversaturn Wrote:
(04-18-2016, 04:58 AM)crazindndude Wrote:    Import-retailers like Bullgoose and Italian Barber defray the costs considerably by buying in bulk and saving us a bit vs. buying separately. Also thanks to VAT-free and price differences in various EU zones like Slovenia, we can get great prices on Haslinger and Floid even compared to Europeans.

   I just bought a couple jars of Esbjerg from their physical boutique in Vienna last week, and paid $19.xx per jar. In the US I'd pay $24 per jar from Bullgoose, so it's not a big deal.



Floïd? Esbjerg? I thought we were talking about artisan soaps and soapmakers, man...  Dodgy
Even Haslinger costs ~€4 in German shops and ebay - and about the double in the US.







(04-18-2016, 04:58 AM)crazindndude Wrote: Back on the topic of B&M in Europe, both Will and John Brown (LA Shaving Soap) have said the EU cosmetics regulations are extremely complex and strict, which prevents smaller operations like artisan soaps to effectively sell there. Since the regulations only cover sale by European retailers, you can use the "loophole" of buying direct from the US and paying a lot more shipping.

Complex and strict? Ha!

Hard to believe in that, considering the many small artisans that produce and/or sell in Europe, and simultaneously are able to follow the rules while putting a good product in the market at a nice price.

If such small artisans can do it, I see no reason why the US artisans can't do the same, if they were willing to do so.

I agree 110%

If Tabula Rasa, Le Pere Lucien, Savon des volcans Bon Berger, Savonniere du Moulin and Pannacrema Nuavia can do it, so can the US artisans.
Especially companies like Barrister & Mann, Cold River Soap Works and Caties Bubbles are now so popular, they ought to have a Euro sales partner.
[....]

Yes, those ones are good examples of EU artisans. Even smaller one-person businesses like Sharon (Nanny's Silly Soaps), Manuel (JabonMan) or Catherin (Calani) can follow the rules and put a good product in the market. Even MdC is an artisan soap, as you can easily see on the videos that they have on youtube.

There are also some artisans that refuse to ship their products outside the US. OK, it's their option, their business and I respect that. Considering the plethora of options that you have nowadays, I no longer mourn about the inaccessibility of some items, or how expensive they become when they cross the pond. If such artisans don't want my money, I just move on and spend my money somewhere else. There are plenty of other fine options.

2 5,545
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)