04-26-2016, 11:12 AM
#1
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Going back over numerous threads on numerous forums in regards to hair quality is confusing to be polite so I thought I would ask to see if I understand what I read.

When it comes to the Simpsons, Plisson's and Shavemac or for that matter all the "higher end manufactures"  compared to our labels here in the US.

  US                  Europe
Best         =        Pure
Finest      =        Best
Silvertip    =       Super


Is that about right?   What would we equate to say a Plisson Pure Badger brush because when I think Pure Badger I am thinking Twezzerman, VDH or some $15 no-name brush off Amazon.


Any thoughts would be helpful.

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 04-26-2016, 11:44 AM
#2
  • kav
  • Banned
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I think we can start by dispensing with "higher end manufactures" as a term with any meaning. We are in a renaissance of shaving gear in general and brushes in particular. People like Brad Sears and Ken @ Paladin have elevated  the aesthetic appeal with new colors, materials and designs. Brushes are
sourced with qualities many are just beginning to understand and appreciate. They are often doing it at attractive prices less than those 'higher end' names
who think classic designs smelling like  a grand aunt's inherited furniture will outsell Ikea.

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 04-26-2016, 11:57 AM
#3
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(04-26-2016, 11:44 AM)kav Wrote: I think we can start by dispensing with "higher end manufactures" as a term with any meaning. We are in a renaissance of shaving gear in general and brushes in particular. People like Brad Sears and Ken @ Paladin have elevated  the aesthetic appeal with new colors, materials and designs. Brushes are
sourced with qualities many are just beginning to understand and appreciate. They are often doing it at attractive prices less than those 'higher end' names
who think classic designs smelling like  a grand aunt's inherited furniture will outsell Ikea.

I was in general speaking of the European manufactures vs. the Parkers, Tweezermans & Vanderhagen's of the world.

I personally look at the M&F,  Paladin's, Wilborgs & Varlets as custom brush makers not as manufacturers. 

The question was the differentiation between US grade names vs. the European to be specific.

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 04-26-2016, 12:10 PM
#4
  • kav
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I don't think you will find any set and fast agreed on nomenclature for brushes that does more than approximate what you want. Scents are supposed to be
classified by a European system and various perfume houses will call something cologne with no more staying power than an aftershave.  Brush hair is much like a cut of meat. Different parts of the body will produce cheap hamburger of a filet Mignon. Different regions and time of harvest will affect quality and the skill in assembly and setting into a handle can make or break the end result.

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 04-26-2016, 12:11 PM
#5
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Part of the problem is that there is - as far as I can tell - no agreed upon standard between brush makers for grading and naming hair (badger, boar, horse or man-made).

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 04-26-2016, 12:15 PM
#6
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(04-26-2016, 12:10 PM)kav Wrote: I don't think you will find any set and fast agreed on nomenclature for brushes that does more than approximate what you want. Scents are supposed to be
classified by a European system and various perfume houses will call something cologne with no more staying power than an aftershave.  Brush hair is much like a cut of meat. Different parts of the body will produce cheap hamburger of a filet Mignon. Different regions and time of harvest will affect quality and the skill in assembly and setting into a handle can make or break the end result.

The reason I was asking is as I look at a Plisson  "Pure Black Badger" I was trying to visualize in my mind and compare it to what I currently use...TGN Finest, Simpson Best, Whipped Dog..etc

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 04-26-2016, 12:17 PM
#7
  • kav
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 04-26-2016, 12:21 PM
#8
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(04-26-2016, 12:17 PM)kav Wrote: www.shaving101.com/index.php/education/shaving-brush-basics/105-understanding-hair-grades-of-badger-brushes.html

Thanks, have seen that before and again you have a $10 twezzerman and an $80 Plisson. 

I doubt they feel the same, just trying to figure out how much different they are.

Sadly there are probably so many variables its impossible to know.

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 04-26-2016, 12:23 PM
#9
  • kav
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This is what people agree on. What a business enterprise calls it's product is something else. A 1966 Cadillac proclaiming itself 'Standard of the World' with a semi retired Don stopped at a red light next to a 1966 Rolls Royce ' HP-sufficient' with Sophia Loren inside are a matter of perspective.

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 04-26-2016, 12:26 PM
#10
  • kav
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In the absence of an impartial measure it's best to plumb the depths of forum member's feedback except for BUY/SELL/TRADE where everything is 'wonderful but not for me'.

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 04-26-2016, 01:28 PM
#11
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(04-26-2016, 12:26 PM)kav Wrote: In the absence of an impartial measure it's best to plumb the depths of forum member's feedback except for BUY/SELL/TRADE where everything is 'wonderful but not for me'.
That's all folks  Biggrin 

[Image: 1gftaSz.jpg]

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 04-26-2016, 04:51 PM
#12
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I think kav summed this up pretty good, different manufacturers all have different grades. M+f is European and has completely different grades compared to Simpsons, same with shavemac, same with plisson. Now keep in mind your paying for a name brand here. I'm not knocking any of these brands at all and all these brands display quality products. However if you buy a pure Simpson or pure plisson, it may be nicer than a tweezerman, the handle will be better quality, should last longer, but there will be scritch. I have a European Grey plisson, very nice brush, it started out with a bit of scritch when I first bought it from Eric on this forum. It softens up quite a bit with each use. This is about a $150 brush, and I love the performance of it, its a great brush, but the softness of the hair is more in line with Simpsons best. I paid $55 for that brush as Eric is generous and I think it was a steal. But at $150+ ,I'm sorry plisson, I'm heading in a bunch of different directions. This is their 3rd highest grade, so I imagine their pure to be quite scritchy. From my experience I enjoy the top tier of brush hair from each manufacturer as opposed to going with a lower tier from a more expensive name brand

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 04-26-2016, 04:54 PM
#13
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(04-26-2016, 01:28 PM)hrfdez Wrote:
(04-26-2016, 12:26 PM)kav Wrote: In the absence of an impartial measure it's best to plumb the depths of forum member's feedback except for BUY/SELL/TRADE where everything is 'wonderful but not for me'.
That's all folks  Biggrin 

[Image: 1gftaSz.jpg]

Lol both of these responses should be a sticky somewhere, well said gentleman

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 04-26-2016, 04:57 PM
#14
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Lol......

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 04-26-2016, 06:36 PM
#15
  • Shanman
  • Reserve Collection Squirrel Hair
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I could honestly care less what grades of hair are called or branded as they truly mean absolutely nothing. The rubber hits the road when the brush goes to face with soap, and you figure out what you like. I've had M&F Blonde Badger that was as good as the hallowed Rooney Finest, and Simpson Manchurian that would make your face look like someone slapped it beet red. All of it is a crap shoot, and always changing, and rarely consistent for longer than a season or so.

For what its worth, I have an old Simpson Somerset Rover that has a pure badger knot softer than any Super grade Simpson has put out in the last decade.

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 04-26-2016, 06:41 PM
#16
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(04-26-2016, 06:36 PM)Shanman Wrote: I could honestly care less what grades of hair are called or branded as they truly mean absolutely nothing. The rubber hits the road when the brush goes to face with soap, and you figure out what you like. I've had M&F Blonde Badger that was as good as the hallowed Rooney Finest, and Simpson Manchurian that would make your face look like someone slapped it beet red. All of it is a crap shoot, and always changing, and rarely consistent for longer than a season or so.

For what its worth, I have an old Simpson Somerset Rover that has a pure badger knot softer than any Super grade Simpson has put out in the last decade.

Well said.  I agree, I still have a couple of old Simpsons in Best that are better than any Manchurian I have owned.  It is a crap shoit indeed.

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 04-27-2016, 04:17 AM
#17
  • Mel S Meles
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(04-26-2016, 12:17 PM)kav Wrote: www.shaving101.com/index.php/education/shaving-brush-basics/105-understanding-hair-grades-of-badger-brushes.html

That Shaving101 summary labors under the assumption that there is consensus among makers as to standard grades.  The fallacy of that assumption may be found in the lack of agreement whether a best is called a finest or whether a finest is called a best; the difference among makers’ terminology was highlighted when Simpson became part of the Vulfix family.  As one of the executives of Simpson explained at the time, there was fair correlation between the two brands’ grades, but they were one grade out of synch with each other:  a Simpson pure was like a Vulfix best, a Vulfix super was like a Simpson best, etc.  

To add to the confusion, Simpson (and most other makers of badger brushes) did not have an intermediate grade that squeezed in above best or finest but below silvertip in their lines:  the intermediate super grade appears to have been a Vulfix invention, but that unconventional terminology started being used by a minority of other makers to gain the equivalent of more shelf space.  

In the post World War II booming automobile market, Ford Motor Company had three main lines:  Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln; Chrysler Corporation had four lines:  Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto, and Chrysler; and General Motors had five lines:  Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Cadillac.  Chevrolet, Ford, and Plymouth were the best selling Big Three; Pontiac and Dodge and Mercury pretty much went head to head; but where did that leave Oldsmobile and Buick and DeSoto in relation to Mercury?   Then Ford brought back the Continental marque to be more up-market than the Cadillac; in response, Chrysler started to market the top sub-line of the Chrysler brand as an independent Imperial brand; and Cadillac started advertising its Fleetwood separately from regular Cadillacs.  God bless Madison Avenue.

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