05-02-2016, 01:31 PM
#1
User Info
Hello everyone,

I find myself with two problems with some recent handles and knots that I purchased.

The first problem is that the handle for one of my knots is a tad too small. Perhaps not even quite 1mm too small. Would there be any other viable ways of expanding the hole without access to power equipment to do so. I'm not quite sure if I can sand the inside to just a larger diameter. 

The second problem is the reverse. The hole is plenty large enough, but I specified for a depth that just doesn't work with the handles I purchased, thus I need to build up the inside to give the knot a higher shelf to rest upon during the installation. What would be a good way of doing this? I've heard of a combination of options. Epoxy+bb's, cork, and washers to name a few. I just wanted to find what others have found successful for this. On this problem I could be inclined to just purchase some new handles and I'd be just fine, and save these for some lofty knots should I ever get any. No problem in being prepared for future possibilities! Wink

I have done the physical gluing part before with no problems, and as far as I know that brush is still going solid. I just find myself finding the best option to get these brush handles where I need them to install their respective knots.

Thank you all for taking the time to read my post!

23 632
Reply
 05-02-2016, 01:37 PM
#2
User Info
For your first problem, I have sanded the inside of the handle, by hand, to accommodate a few larger knots. This actually provided more backbone to the knot while keeping the loft a tad higher than usual, which resulted in a very good outcome. However, only do this if you are not, overly, concerned about dis-forming your handle in shape and texture and if your knot is only 1-2mm larger because if it is much larger, you can compromise the stability of the handle wall where the knot is set.
By the way, it takes quite a bit of sanding if you perform this by hand, let me tell you. Biggrin

For your second issue, coins will work well if you want to add weight, or buttons, plastic rings, or cork if you want to minimize the weight.

Please, be aware that you might want better advice from one of the brush artisans as I have only attempted this twice and I am not an expert. Blush

Good luck.

83 21,077
Reply
 05-02-2016, 01:41 PM
#3
  • vferdman
  • Artisan
  • Western Massachusetts
User Info
What Celestino said. If you have access to a dremel with a sanding drum you would spend a lot less time with problem one.

Good luck!

26 1,739
Reply
 05-02-2016, 02:57 PM
#4
  • Teddyboy
  • Guilty, with an explanation
  • NYC
User Info
The OP mentions " Epoxy+bb's, cork, and washers to name a few."


I built up my handle cavity to the desired height with slices of cork, placed the epoxy and then the knot.

Make sure you can measure from the base of the empty handle cavity to where you want the cork slices/bits to end, in order to be as accurate as possible.  If the vendor has provided the overall height of the knot, from its base, it should not be difficult.

1 795
Reply
 05-02-2016, 11:09 PM
#5
User Info
Sanding the inside of the knot hole by hand is definitely doable, but set aside some time and get ready for some hand cramps.  If you just happen to have a piece of dowel sitting around, you can glue a strip of sandpaper around it and use it to try to keep a somewhat uniform radius.  If not, that's fine - the real trick of it is making sure that your sandpaper meets the wall all the way to the bottom of the hole.  If it doesn't then you will wind up with a conical hole, and the knot won't be able to reach the bottom.  While this may sound like obvious advice, once you hit 10-15 minutes of constant sanding and your hand it on fire it can feel like you're keeping even pressure when you aren't.  Use a relatively low grit (80-120) to save yourself some time, and really pay attention to giving even attention to the entire knot hole, otherwise it will become oblong.  At the end of the day, if it is misshapen, this isn't necessarily the end of the world and will probably not be noticeable once knotted as long as the knot seat properly.

If you have a Dremel, you can use a sanding drum - but there is significantly more risk of irreparable damage once the Dremel comes into play. Hand sanding is much safer.

For building a hole up, I usually use two part urethane resin (what I make resin brushes out of) solely because I have a lot of it on hand.  If I didn't, however, I'd most likely just use simple two part 5m epoxy.  You can use some sort of filler material if you'd like (BBs are good if you want to add weight to the handle), but if you don't then just plain epoxy works great - as long as you are careful not to get "epoxy strings" on the handle when transferring it into the knot hole and work very quickly (so that it doesn't begin to set up before it can flatten out).

These certainly aren't the only ways to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, but they're what I'd do (and I've had to do both of these quite a few times) Smile

0 5
Reply
 05-03-2016, 03:33 AM
#6
  • Gabe
  • Senior Member
  • Arizona
User Info
The sanding idea is made easier with a dremel tool but can be done by hand. As Celestino mentioned, it will take some time. 

To fill the space I use Plumbers putty. Commonly found at an hardware store. It come in a small tube and it meant to fix very small water leaks in pipes. You take a small part and knead it together like dough. The kneading activates the putty and then you will have a few minutes before it hardens. After a couple hours it hardens like hard pottery clay. You can still sand it down it you added to much. This also adds a nice weight to the handle. I use this method in vintage brush restorations since a lot of vintage handles are hollow and feel light to me.

75 1,318
Reply
 05-03-2016, 07:45 AM
#7
User Info
I put the dremel sanding bit into a portable drill. The drill doesn't have as high RPM and won't bite into the handle as easily. Don't use the dremel unless you are really skilled with it.

24 9
Reply
 05-03-2016, 08:28 AM
#8
User Info
No dremel so I'll be good there. I might take a stab with a mini drum sander though in one of my drills. I do have that. Otherwise it looks like the sand route. I'm going to order new handles for now, but should I get more knots and the handles are still too deep I know what to do now. Thank you very much for the help everyone! I'm not sure when I'll get to putting these knots in but hopefully soon!

23 632
Reply
 05-03-2016, 01:53 PM
#9
  • Crag
  • Senior Member
  • Menifee, Ca 92586
User Info
Joe,

If you are in the USA, just go down to your local Harbor Freight Tools and buy their version of the Dremel.  It cost me $29 plus tax and came with a case, a flexible wand, 30 tools, and a 2-year warranty.  I use it all the time for things I never thought about.  One thing it absolutely shines for is trimming my dogs nails, and I've used it a few times to fix handles that were too small.
Good buy for a light duty tool.

74 1,510
Reply
 05-03-2016, 02:04 PM
#10
User Info
(05-03-2016, 07:45 AM)sumomike Wrote: I put the dremel sanding bit into a portable drill. The drill doesn't have as high RPM and won't bite into the handle as easily. Don't use the dremel unless you are really skilled with it.

This. I bought a drill press with forstner bits from harbor freight because I hate dremels for anything beyond light material removal. They are destructive in my hands.

63 1,720
Reply
 05-03-2016, 02:35 PM
#11
User Info
(05-03-2016, 02:04 PM)NSmalls Wrote:
(05-03-2016, 07:45 AM)sumomike Wrote: I put the dremel sanding bit into a portable drill. The drill doesn't have as high RPM and won't bite into the handle as easily. Don't use the dremel unless you are really skilled with it.

This. I bought a drill press with forstner bits from harbor freight because I hate dremels for anything beyond light material removal. They are destructive in my hands.

If you don't mind my asking, how are you centering the larger fortsner to enlarge a hole?  I've tried once with disastrous results, so I stick with my Dremel.

0 5
Reply
 05-03-2016, 06:25 PM
#12
  • Crag
  • Senior Member
  • Menifee, Ca 92586
User Info
I would NEVER use a forstner bit freehand...you stand a good chance to tear a hole in your hand or ruin your handle or both. Do it manually if you don't want to use the Dremel.

74 1,510
Reply
 05-05-2016, 12:46 AM
#13
User Info
It just so happened I was talking with my brother today and the brush handles came up and how I needed to get a small dremel sand bit to try sanding the handle down on the inside to fit a knot. Turns out he had a dremel, so I borrowed it, and just now got the knot fitting just perfect in a little under 10 minutes. Definitely don't go past the minimum settings, but it worked just fine. Gave the handle a quick bath and I'll give it a coating of Renaissance wax in a few days.

New brush handles are on the way now for my other two knots so this is looking like I'll have it done sooner rather than later like I thought!

23 632
Reply
 05-06-2016, 02:14 PM
#14
User Info
The results gentlemen and ladies as I know I've seen a few in the forums over the years:

[Image: GEkgoS1.jpg]

First up is a P8 Strawberry Amber by Rudy Vey with a 26mm Romera Manchurian knot.

In the middle is a black Whipped Dog Goblet handle with a 22mm Envy Shave Silvertip knot.

Lastly on the end is an amber Whipped Dog tall handle with a 22mm Envy Shave 2-band knot.

Still need to wait to use these as I just glued these into place, but I'm happy with them all.

23 632
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)