05-13-2016, 09:37 AM
#1
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Hi, I had an interesting conversation in a wetshaving Facebook group where someone came up with the explanation that adding Vitamin E in the formulas of soaps like Mike's Natural and Cold River Soap Works is worthless because of the component degrading over the soap making process and/or the PH.

Has this been discussed before? is this true?  If it is a know-fact by chemists and soap-makers...why would they bother adding it?

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 05-13-2016, 09:48 AM
#2
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Because I don't think it is a known fact.  I just tried a quick Google search and I couldn't find anything claiming that adding vitamin E is worthless.  Actually quite the contrary; it sounds like a very good addition.  I have no chemistry or really any science background, but based on a "common sense" approach, why would soapmakers add it if its worthless?  Why would they literally waste money on vitamin E?

The proponent of the "vitamin E is worthless" concept needs to show his or her work.  It does look like vitamin E doesn't last forever, but it looks like it is stable for at least a couple of years.

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 05-13-2016, 09:54 AM
#3
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I was under the impression it was added as a preservative type ingredient, I'm not sure myself but quite sure I read this somewhere.

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 05-13-2016, 10:06 AM
#4
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(05-13-2016, 09:48 AM)jpakstis Wrote: Because I don't think it is a known fact.  I just tried a quick Google search and I couldn't find anything claiming that adding vitamin E is worthless.  Actually quite the contrary; it sounds like a very good addition.  I have no chemistry or really any science background, but based on a "common sense" approach, why would soapmakers add it if its worthless?  Why would they literally waste money on vitamin E?

The proponent of the "vitamin E is worthless" concept needs to show his or her work.  It does look like vitamin E doesn't last forever, but it looks like it is stable for at least a couple of years.

Well, the proponent is a chemist, and basically he said that Vitamin E is stable at 7-8 PH level, and shaving soaps are at 8-8.5.  He said this can be found in pharmaceutical excipients handbook, that's why I cared to ask here.

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 05-13-2016, 10:16 AM
#5
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What is also interesting with vitamins is the notion that they will make you healthier. What is needed to establish this perception is a blood test. If your levels if vitamin E are adequate it really is a waste and with some vitamins potentially dangerous.

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 05-13-2016, 10:24 AM
#6
  • kav
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Ah, well he's a CHEMIST and we all know how 'better living through chemistry' has given us DDT, Near Beer and Polyester dress shirts by the Walter Whites of the world. I look at ingredients as either benign or malignant. At worst; E is like those sparkly thingies on donuts. They don't
taste like much of anything alone, but I grab one instead of a plain brown dunker every time.

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 05-13-2016, 10:30 AM
#7
  • kav
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I've been told the vitamin E molecule was to big for dermal absorption. I was also told to supplement vitamin D3 because we wear clothing and
don't get enough through sunlight. But if I go naked the police arrest me and violate my constitutional right to 'Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness'.

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 05-13-2016, 10:38 AM
#8
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(05-13-2016, 10:30 AM)kav Wrote: I've been told the vitamin E molecule was to big for dermal absorption. I was also told to supplement vitamin D3 because we wear clothing and
don't get enough through sunlight. But if I go naked the police arrest me and violate my constitutional right to 'Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness'.

I get it.  But with all due respect, do you have any valid information about the topic?

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 05-13-2016, 10:54 AM
#9
  • kav
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Sure, I can websearch a good two dozen pro and two dozen con articles by 'learned men' about vitamins , stories  it's a Mormon conspiracy to make money off of gullible Gentiles and herbalists who want me to drink green tea instead of my English Breakfast Chinese black with milk and live to be 116 impotent and incontinent. I am sure this is interesting to chemists but really, don't you just LOVE the smell of Spruce in your new Brutalt? Wink

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 05-13-2016, 10:55 AM
#10
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(05-13-2016, 10:16 AM)Nishy Wrote: What is also interesting with vitamins is the notion that they will make you healthier. What is needed to establish this perception is a blood test. If your levels if vitamin E are adequate it really is a waste and with some vitamins potentially dangerous.

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I believe that vitamin E is added to soap for its topical effects, not for any internal benefit.

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 05-13-2016, 10:59 AM
#11
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(05-13-2016, 10:06 AM)kinja Wrote: Well, the proponent is a chemist, and basically he said that Vitamin E is stable at 7-8 PH level, and shaving soaps are at 8-8.5.  He said this can be found in pharmaceutical excipients handbook, that's why I cared to ask here.

We are beyond the limits of my knowledge of the subject.  Maybe one of the artisans can chime in.  But suffice it to say, I tend to be skeptical of just about anything until it is proved and nothing has been "proved" yet. Also like Kav says below, it is not an ingredient that I necessarily "want" to have in a shaving soap, but one that seems like a nice addition.

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 05-13-2016, 11:19 AM
#12
  • kav
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So, if E is stable at the high end of 8 and soap at the low end of 8 it comes down to that pesky variable called environment leaning against the door of the chemistry lab like a drop out waiting for his girlfriend. Ingredients come and go; if not through regulation ( coke was much more fun with a touch of actual coke in it according to my great grandmother) market scarcity or the epiphany of worthlessness. Are we paying more for soaps with vitamen E  instead of parabens and all their alleged evils? Will my pucks all crack, lose scent when we are both 20 years down the road and will I have enough hoarded by then? One more passion to ad to the current primary elections. Sbathroom_grooming_shaving_100-100

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 05-13-2016, 11:22 AM
#13
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(05-13-2016, 10:55 AM)jpakstis Wrote:
(05-13-2016, 10:16 AM)Nishy Wrote: What is also interesting with vitamins is the notion that they will make you healthier. What is needed to establish this perception is a blood test. If your levels if vitamin E are adequate it really is a waste and with some vitamins potentially dangerous.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I believe that vitamin E is added to soap for its topical effects, not for any internal benefit.
It is definitely to be applied topically. What the skin transdermally absorbs is a different story. The chemical composition of the said soap/cream can play a major part. If someone has required levels or even excess levels of Vitamin E, I don't understand the logic of further topical application. That said we have no idea of the quantity or quality thus the boundaries of its stable state.

It is just vitamin E though Smile

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 05-13-2016, 11:22 AM
#14
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(05-13-2016, 11:19 AM)kav Wrote: Will my pucks all crack, lose scent when we are both 20 years down the road and will I have enough hoarded by then? One more passion to ad to the current primary elections. Sbathroom_grooming_shaving_100-100

I'm sure Trump will make sure we have only the best and most luxurious vitamin Es in our soaps.

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 05-13-2016, 11:34 AM
#15
  • kav
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Firedevil feel it. We are pushing the mods limits. Blush

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 05-13-2016, 11:45 AM
#16
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I guess we don't a have chemist among us Sad

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 05-13-2016, 11:45 AM
#17
  • evnpar
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Vitamine E is very beneficial for the skin and is frequently used for wound and burn care. 

Vitamin E | Linus Pauling Institute | Oregon State University

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 05-13-2016, 11:48 AM
#18
  • kav
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I mix the best Strawberry Margaritas in California. Who needs a chemist after 3 or 4?

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 05-13-2016, 01:02 PM
#19
  • Mr_Smartepants
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I've been working with a well-known UK soap maker on a custom tallow soap project of mine.  Vit-E is actually used to stabilize the "free fatty acids" (or unsaponified fats) in order to increase shelf-life.
I suppose it may do something for the skin, but the real reason we added it was to increase shelf life.

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 05-13-2016, 01:04 PM
#20
  • kav
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We do, in fact have a forum chemist. He makes the Brutalt. PM him Lightbulb

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