06-02-2016, 01:47 PM
#1
  • Teddyboy
  • Guilty, with an explanation
  • NYC
User Info
I cannot believe that I'm writing this, but I've been bit [bitten?] buy a RAD, specifically for one of these stainless steel designer DE razors that everyone talks about.  You know all of their names so I won't even try to list them here.  But for those of you who have TWO OR MORE of these artisanal recent/new stainless steel DE razors, can you please tell me what your recommendation would be?

I don't like very aggressive razors, but neither do I want a stainless steel Muhle R89.  As far aggressiveness goes, even my Fatip I put to pasture as it was too much for my comfort zone.  The 2011 R41 was off the charts.

I am leaning toward one of the ATT razors with an "intermediate" aggressive head.  But I am open to suggestions.  However, I would not like one of those razors that are always out of stock and where you need to sign up a year in advance.  

PS  I have a few Ikons.

Another question:  Is the ATT with the M baseplate as mild as the Muhle R89/EJagger DE89?

Thanks, in advance, for any of your thoughts.

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 06-02-2016, 02:23 PM
#2
  • DayMan
  • Senior Member
  • Tennessee
User Info
Above The Tie is a good choice. I have the m2 head. I find it to be mild, but efficient. It's not much more aggressive than a Merkur, so the r2 might work better for you. The 2nd round of Blackbirds will be available soon, so that would probably be a good choice.

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 06-02-2016, 02:48 PM
#3
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I'd recommend the ATT S1 - efficient, smooth, and available for purchase.

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 06-02-2016, 03:37 PM
#4
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Above The Tie (ATT) has an aggression/blade gap chart on their FAQ section (Bottom of one of the pages of the website). It compares not only ATT razors, but others as well.
Stan also has a short 3 minute video that addresses the differences of the M,R, and H plates.

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 06-02-2016, 03:54 PM
#5
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Above the Tie S1 or S2. Fairly mild but very efficient.

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 06-02-2016, 04:08 PM
#6
  • Mel S Meles
  • On the edge, ouch
  • 44.4899° south of the North Pole
User Info
(06-02-2016, 01:47 PM)I\m Teddyboy Wrote: I cannot believe that I'm writing this, but I've been bit [bitten?] buy a RAD, specifically for one of these stainless steel designer DE razors that everyone talks about.  You know all of their names so I won't even try to list them here.  But for those of you who have TWO OR MORE of these artisanal recent/new stainless steel DE razors, can you please tell me what your recommendation would be?

I don't like very aggressive razors, but neither do I want a stainless steel Muhle R89.  As far aggressiveness goes, even my Fatip I put to pasture as it was too much for my comfort zone.  The 2011 R41 was off the charts.

I am leaning toward one of the ATT razors with an "intermediate" aggressive head.  But I am open to suggestions.  However, I would not like one of those razors that are always out of stock and where you need to sign up a year in advance.  

PS  I have a few Ikons.

Thanks, in advance, for any of your thoughts.

Here is an any of my thought:  that is, it does not address directly your main question.  

I quibble with the premise of the topic line.  There are some razors that are higher priced, some much higher priced, than others.  But “expensive” is not a synonym for “overpriced” or vice versa.  It costs real resources to manufacture a precision instrument from stainless steel.  If a business is going to sell the product commercially, it must price it to cover the manufacturing cost and the distribution costs, and return a reasonable profit.  In recent history, we have seen some excellent products (examples:  Weber, Tradere, etc.) that were priced well above the price of popular Merkur and Edwin Jagger razors, but (apparently) not priced high enough to allow their makers stay in business.  On that basis, I think that the ATT razors are not overpriced, and I think that the similarly priced Feather AS-D2, also, is not overpriced.  

Among the very few well-above-market-median-priced objects in our household are some of the greatest bargains in our household.  We have a Miele G848 dishwasher that we purchaed in 2003 for roughly double the price at that time of a comparable-by-feature-list Whirlpool or Maytag dishwasher; it has run about 5,000 wash cycles in our home, cleaning dishes better AND more gently than Kitchenaids and Bosches, and has required ZERO repairs in all that time.   Some friends of ours bought a brand new (and expensive) top-of the-line Samsung dishwasher for their home three years ago, had to replace it a year ago, and the replacement already is showing signs of failing.  Was our Miele overpriced?  Certainly not.  

There are two reasons why a manufacturer will expend the resources to gear a factory with very expensive manufacturing equipment that the buyer of the product made by that equipment will never see:  economies of scale from mass production, or higher degrees of precision.  


One of the other expensive objects in our household is my Feather AS-D2 razor.  It is a jewel of obsessive Japanese precision, made by robotically controlled processes on very expensive machines.  ATT, in contrast, sells razors that are made one-by-one by dedicated hand craftsmen, as Mr. Wolfman does.  A very skilled craftsman may be able to equal the precision that a multimillion dollar robotic machine can fashion in Seki, Japan, and I admit to being unabashedly (I say that with NO irony) awed by the skills and products of dedicated skilled craftsmen. But when I belt myself into the seat of a commercial aircraft, I am comforted in the knowledge that the rotating vanes that are spinning at incredibly high speeds within the fanjet engines a few feet from my head and neck were made with precision manufacturing techniques aided by laser- and x-ray inspection and quality control routines throughout the fabrication process rather than by dedicated hand workers eyeballing the measurements. 

Without taking anything away from the exquisite craft that goes into making a Wolfman or an ATT, I can very highly recommend that you consider a Feather AS-D2.  

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 06-02-2016, 04:16 PM
#7
  • kav
  • Banned
  • east of the sun,west of the moon
User Info
Going on a date with any number of celebrity women is overpriced. Visiting a Nevada brothel is expensive. The skill level  delivering the final product, limited access and value returned are probably a matter of perspective.

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 06-02-2016, 05:46 PM
#8
  • Teddyboy
  • Guilty, with an explanation
  • NYC
User Info
Thanks for the input gents.  It is greatly appreciated.

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 06-02-2016, 05:53 PM
#9
User Info
I suggest purchasing an ATT system with multiple baseplates.  I originally thought I was an R1 kind of guy, but I've come to appreciate the M1 plate as well.  Also, the S1 is a nice compromise between the R1 and the M1, but closer to the R.

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 06-03-2016, 04:39 AM
#10
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I also recommend a Feather AS-D2. Having used both it and a Wolfman, I would say take the Feather since it's (A) available now and (B) less expensive.

Just don't buy it right this second - if you look at a price tracker:

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Feather-Stain...B00C9M506G

You can see it has been as low as $120 in the past. Just look at the price for a little bit and you could save some money.

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 06-03-2016, 04:45 AM
#11
  • ben74
  • Senior Member
  • Perth, Australia
User Info
My recommendation is for the Blackbird. Excellent shave and NOT overpriced IMO.

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 06-03-2016, 06:23 AM
#12
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I really, really love my Blackbird. It is the closest shaving razor I have ever owned that isn't "aggressive" like an R41 or an Ikon Tech etc... It requires a light touch, but I would place it on the high end of medium.

An ATT S head would be a great choice also. Before the Blackbird my S2 was one of my favorite razors ever.

A Rockwell 6S is another great choice, although it doesn't have the allure of the machined razors. To me, it should say Snap-On on the side. Awesome in its own way. One of the best shaving razors I have ever owned, and there is a level for everyone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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 06-03-2016, 06:46 AM
#13
  • jtmke
  • Ex shaving hater
  • milwaukee
User Info
I enjoy my ATT M2. I find the the R1 head aggressive

I like the Feather ASD2. It is mild but a well built razor that can handle a feather blade without shaving skin

The Rockwell is ok but not in the same super camp as the two above. Honorable mention and at least in my top three DE razors is the Mergress. Very comfortable shave and adjustable to find your own comfort. Plus the original can be had for 1/2 the price.

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 06-03-2016, 07:29 AM
#14
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Dunno? I tried the venerable Weber razor and hated it! Looked very good though. I tried the Att razor and it looks very nice, but it simply did not work out for me. The proof is in the shave not in the jewelry look of any razor? The Rockwell razor however has worked out very well for me. Does it look as spiffy as the Att razor? No, but for me it shaves a heck of a lot better. The Rockwell plates go from too mild to too aggressive for me. Plates 2,3, and 4 I can shave very well with. I used the M1 and M2 Att razor versions and I could not complete a shave without blood! I also could not shave with the ATT razor without razor burn. YMMV or course. My all time favorite razor is the Feather AS-D2. And For me it is Extremely efficient with any sharp blade and with no razor burn and no blood. All this is of course my opinion, but I have been wet shaving for 50+ years. Old, thin and damaged skin? Most likely?

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 06-03-2016, 08:20 AM
#15
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I have owned most of the above mentioned razors and all have some pluses and minuses.  only one razor ever has totally failed me and that simply was that my silly face didn't cooperate with it. a Mongoose.  now there are thousands of highly satisfied owners of these fabulously crafted razors.  My personal experience says that only trial and error with the razor on your face will answer your question.  I use all my razors just for variety and generally fall back to my weber and one blade but who doesn't enjoy the variety of a single edge or speed racing across my bumpy head with a cartridge.  There are always pifs for the failures and friends to buy the more expensive failures.  To me and apparently a lot of others the next razor is "the One". It  seems that will be a new single edge that I have waited months for.  Good luck just enjoy the journey.

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 06-03-2016, 10:39 AM
#16
  • ARGH
  • Senior Member
  • Boston, MA
User Info
+1000 on BlackBirds! It shaves absolutely on par with WM and BBS 1 and perhaps the coolest looking razor I ever tried.

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 06-03-2016, 01:20 PM
#17
  • Mel S Meles
  • On the edge, ouch
  • 44.4899° south of the North Pole
User Info
(06-03-2016, 04:39 AM)crazindndude Wrote: I also recommend a Feather AS-D2. Having used both it and a Wolfman, I would say take the Feather since it's (A) available now and (B) less expensive.

Just don't buy it right this second - if you look at a price tracker:

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Feather-Stain...B00C9M506G

You can see it has been as low as $120 in the past. Just look at the price for a little bit and you could save some money.

Yes ... but.  The camelcamelcamel.com third party prices do not take into account the third parties’ shipping charges.  I followed the Feather AS-D2 prices for several months last year (we travel to Japan a couple of times a year, and I decide on whether to purchase in Japan depending on whether there is a significant saving purchasing there vs. the simpler path of buying here), and the prices for the AS-D2 did vary over a fairly wide range; Prime Minister Abe’s economic reform program made the Yen relatively cheap for a while, but the exchange rate seems to have settled into a fairly narrow range of fluctuation, and the ups and downs have been damped.  I was lucky enough to buy an AS-D2 at a pretty good price (about $147, inclusive) last autumn, but I have seen the AS-D2 price — shipping cost included — dip below the price that I paid only very briefly (for two or three days), and even then only a few dollars lower, since then.

Just for comparison, the third-party price shown on camelcamelcamel.com for the also-Japanese, also stainless steel, Suwada.L (with case) nail clipper (ASIN: B000UL64H2) has been very steady at $57+change (very close to the price at the Yokohama Tokyu Hands store) for the past two months, but Amazon’s outlier third-party seller charges $20 for shipping, where other sellers on Amazon, including amazon.com itself, have much lower shipping costs, making their total price much lower than the delivered price from the outlier third-party vendor.  

Bottom line:  it is always safe to buy a Feather AS-D2 from a site sponsor.  

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 06-04-2016, 07:51 AM
#18
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H1 and H2 heads are all I use these days. Haven't touched the M plate in over a year. It's all personal I know but for what it's worth...I can't seem to go back down in blade gap.

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 06-04-2016, 08:09 AM
#19
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(06-02-2016, 04:08 PM)Mel S Meles Wrote:
(06-02-2016, 01:47 PM)I\m Teddyboy Wrote: I cannot believe that I'm writing this, but I've been bit [bitten?] buy a RAD, specifically for one of these stainless steel designer DE razors that everyone talks about.  You know all of their names so I won't even try to list them here.  But for those of you who have TWO OR MORE of these artisanal recent/new stainless steel DE razors, can you please tell me what your recommendation would be?

I don't like very aggressive razors, but neither do I want a stainless steel Muhle R89.  As far aggressiveness goes, even my Fatip I put to pasture as it was too much for my comfort zone.  The 2011 R41 was off the charts.

I am leaning toward one of the ATT razors with an "intermediate" aggressive head.  But I am open to suggestions.  However, I would not like one of those razors that are always out of stock and where you need to sign up a year in advance.  

PS  I have a few Ikons.

Thanks, in advance, for any of your thoughts.

Here is an any of my thought:  that is, it does not address directly your main question.  

I quibble with the premise of the topic line.  There are some razors that are higher priced, some much higher priced, than others.  But “expensive” is not a synonym for “overpriced” or vice versa.  It costs real resources to manufacture a precision instrument from stainless steel.  If a business is going to sell the product commercially, it must price it to cover the manufacturing cost and the distribution costs, and return a reasonable profit.  In recent history, we have seen some excellent products (examples:  Weber, Tradere, etc.) that were priced well above the price of popular Merkur and Edwin Jagger razors, but (apparently) not priced high enough to allow their makers stay in business.  On that basis, I think that the ATT razors are not overpriced, and I think that the similarly priced Feather AS-D2, also, is not overpriced.  

Among the very few well-above-market-median-priced objects in our household are some of the greatest bargains in our household.  We have a Miele G848 dishwasher that we purchaed in 2003 for roughly double the price at that time of a comparable-by-feature-list Whirlpool or Maytag dishwasher; it has run about 5,000 wash cycles in our home, cleaning dishes better AND more gently than Kitchenaids and Bosches, and has required ZERO repairs in all that time.   Some friends of ours bought a brand new (and expensive) top-of the-line Samsung dishwasher for their home three years ago, had to replace it a year ago, and the replacement already is showing signs of failing.  Was our Miele overpriced?  Certainly not.  

There are two reasons why a manufacturer will expend the resources to gear a factory with very expensive manufacturing equipment that the buyer of the product made by that equipment will never see:  economies of scale from mass production, or higher degrees of precision.  


One of the other expensive objects in our household is my Feather AS-D2 razor.  It is a jewel of obsessive Japanese precision, made by robotically controlled processes on very expensive machines.  ATT, in contrast, sells razors that are made one-by-one by dedicated hand craftsmen, as Mr. Wolfman does.  A very skilled craftsman may be able to equal the precision that a multimillion dollar robotic machine can fashion in Seki, Japan, and I admit to being unabashedly (I say that with NO irony) awed by the skills and products of dedicated skilled craftsmen. But when I belt myself into the seat of a commercial aircraft, I am comforted in the knowledge that the rotating vanes that are spinning at incredibly high speeds within the fanjet engines a few feet from my head and neck were made with precision manufacturing techniques aided by laser- and x-ray inspection and quality control routines throughout the fabrication process rather than by dedicated hand workers eyeballing the measurements. 

Without taking anything away from the exquisite craft that goes into making a Wolfman or an ATT, I can very highly recommend that you consider a Feather AS-D2.  
+1

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 06-04-2016, 12:04 PM
#20
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I'll cast another vote for the AS-D2, or a Wolfman if you can find one (they're worth the wait if you want to get on the wait list once James opens it back up). Both the AS-D2 and Wolfman are two of my all-time favorite razors and they get far more use than any other razor I own.

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