07-23-2016, 09:25 AM
#1
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I am thoroughly enjoying a simpson berkeley and 56 both with near identical 20/21 knots at 45/46.

based on 2 band being a different animal than best, what would be a good knot size to compare to these and get a similar sized bloom in a fan shape?  I dont want a bloom larger than these as a duke 2 at 22/47mm was too large for my taste

i am targeting them in a rudy vey as3m and duke 2 handle combo

I have a 2 band set at 21/22 which I ordered with a loft a bit too short at 42(as the knot was intended to be a 20/42).

From observation, I think that 2 Band is also not as dense as a Simpson Best.  Is that a reasonable assumption?

I can get a 21/45 exact from Rudy, but if 2 Band is not as dense, would perhaps a 22 or 23 at 45/46 be a more reasonable goal to match density/loft of the Simpson 20/21 at 45 I am targeting?

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 07-23-2016, 10:06 AM
#2
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I would think that 20/21mm would be fine in a shavemac fan. Just be wary of the loft as obvioudly a high one would mean more splay. I have a 21/42mm shavemac 2-band fan and had a duke 2 and the shavemac did not splay more than the duke.

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 07-23-2016, 10:20 AM
#3
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Keep in mind, shavemac knots tend to run 1mm to 2mm larger knot diameter than ordered. I don't know this from personal experience, just my research on the forums. So if I were you, something like a 19,42-43 should be nice, if your looking for some nice splay, maybe 44-45 as the 2 band should have more backbone than the best grade from simpsons

Maybe a 20,44 would be nice? I suspect the higher 47 loft on the duke 2 gave a larger feel than the 22mm knot

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 07-23-2016, 10:53 AM
#4
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From my understanding, the loft ratio on Shavemac's 2-band silvertip fans is [(knot * 2) - 2], so for example 24x46 or 26x50. I wouldn't loft a 21mm knot any higher than 40.

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 07-23-2016, 11:28 AM
#5
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I've owned several 2-band silver tip fans. I don't think there's a magic ratio. I wouldn't want a 20x40 or a 28x56. Too stiff and too floppy respectively.

I've also ordered a 24x48 that measured 25x48 and a 25x50 that measured closer to 24x48. The former was too stiff and the latter perfect. But that probably has as much to do with the hair as anything.

Best bet is to email Rudy and ask his recommendation. That's what I did and he got it right on my 8th try with this hair type.

But if I were to guess 21x45 to 22x46 final measurement would be ideal.

Here's mine by the way.

[Image: 4fb7cdf11e4c957217810019ad0ebdb5.jpg]

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 07-23-2016, 11:50 AM
#6
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I have a 24mm Shavemac Silvertip two band with a 46mm loft IMO it's absolutely the perfect knot loft combo.



[Image: DSC_1678_zpslesuhc9n.jpg~original]


[Image: DSC_1677_zpsijq5c6do.jpg~original]

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 07-23-2016, 12:53 PM
#7
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Lovely Shavemac, Jamie. What's that handle material?

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 07-23-2016, 02:33 PM
#8
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I would guess the black brown resin from shavemac in the eagle type handle.

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 07-23-2016, 10:19 PM
#9
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(07-23-2016, 12:53 PM)handjam Wrote: Lovely Shavemac, Jamie. What's that handle material?

It's the Black Brown 386 handle.

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 07-24-2016, 12:27 AM
#10
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Moved my comments to original post

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 09-27-2016, 11:26 AM
#11
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okay gents, with update.

I have now on hand a 21.5/41.5 and a 21/45....with a 24x48 in the mail for comparison of something larger than my normal tastes.

IMO, the 21.5 is too short and scrubby and probably more indicative of a Classic 1 style brush...just with extreme gel tips that hook. While the 21/45 does splay and is not as scrubby as the 21.5/41.5, I still feel like it has a smaller feeling and is a less dense brush in comparison to the 21/45 Simpson Best I have used.

Should I have stayed at the magic 2:1 recommended ration for this to accomplish a close comparison to a Simpson 46 Berkeley or 56 BEST at 21/45?

Or would a knot larger like 22/44 or 23/46 get closer to the splay and backbone I am looking for? With the knowledge that I found the Duke 2 on the edge of too big for my taste.

In comparison to the 10+brush hunt in Best for my sweet spot, it just gets expensive trying all these little nuances of knot sizes to find that same sweet spot in a 2 Band. UGG.

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 09-28-2016, 04:40 PM
#12
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(07-23-2016, 10:20 AM)Safelysimpson Wrote: Keep in mind, shavemac knots tend to run 1mm to 2mm larger knot diameter than ordered.

This is because Shavemac knots are measured for the diameter at the base of the knot. This means if you order a 24mm diameter knot you can expect it to come out at 25mm or a bit more. Keep this in mind when you order your knot. For example, if someone wanted a 24mm / 46mm knot after it was set in the handle he'd need to order one with a 23mm diameter.

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 09-28-2016, 05:48 PM
#13
  • BobH
  • Senior Member
  • Thunder Bay Canada
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(09-28-2016, 04:40 PM)Journeyman Wrote:
(07-23-2016, 10:20 AM)Safelysimpson Wrote: Keep in mind, shavemac knots tend to run 1mm to 2mm larger knot diameter than ordered.

This is because Shavemac knots are measured for the diameter at the base of the knot. This means if you order a 24mm diameter knot you can expect it to come out at 25mm or a bit more. Keep this in mind when you order your knot. For example, if someone wanted a 24mm / 46mm knot after it was set in the handle he'd need to order one with a 23mm diameter.

Yes, that has been my experience with most brushes that I have bought. Knot size is usually quoted at the glue plug. After the glue plug the knot bulges out and needs a hole bored larger then the knot size in order to properly seat the knot. My guess is that with a well stuffed knot, which the Shavemc 2 band silver tip appears to be, the bore size may even need to be larger that 1mm-2mm. I say that because both brushes I have with Shavemac 2 band silver tip knots measure 3mm larger at the knot handle junction than the knot size.

One is a 26mm knot with a 50mm loft and the other a 24mm knot with a 48mm loft. Because of the different loft ratios the 24mm blooms as much as the 26mm and has slightly less backbone. Either work extremely well face lathering.

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 09-28-2016, 05:49 PM
#14
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I I've got one that was ordered as 23/46, but in actual measurement it's closer to 25/45.5. It's acceptable due to the smaller knot size, but if it were a larger brush I don't think I would dig this ratio, too short for my liking. If I were to order one today I would probably get 28/52 

As far as density, my Chubby 2 Best is more dense than the Shavemac, but the hairs are thinner too with less backbone, the Shavemac has much more backbone so it doesn't really need the extra density, it's plenty dense as is. My Duke 3 Best seems to have scrubbier hairs than my Chubby 2, so even though it's less dense, it feels scrubbier.

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 09-29-2016, 02:43 AM
#15
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Thanks for all the insight gents!

I guess I should have prefaced my original post that I custom order my brushes and knots from Rudy Vey who almost always provides a brush that is extremely close or exactly to what is ordered in comparison to the well known and expected variations from Shavemac direct.

As I keep using the RV Duke with the shorter loft I notice the hair is breaking in a bit and isnt as stiff or scrubby as in the beginning, but could use perhaps a little bit more size on it.

I think I might move forward with an order for a RV 22/44 to compare together with the 24/48 I just bought. I believe the 21/22 size is good, but I gotta figure the loft combo that doesnt splay too much or feel too scrubby.

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