07-31-2012, 07:17 PM
#1
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I was asked by Teiste to post the following information.

Full article here: Where Your Badger Hair Originates From

Badger hair comes from two species of badger. The European badger (known as dog in China) and the hog badger. The Euro badger is from the Meles Meles family, which is split into several sub groups. M. Leucurus, the sand badger, is one of them. The Sand Badger is native to the east of the Volga, and the European badger is west of the Volga.

Teiste says the Euro badger has migrated to China and some modern descriptions of their range includes the areas previously exclusive to M. Leucurus.

Anyway, the classic three grades of badger are from the Meles badger (you can look at a pelt and see where they come from). Black badger and Two band badger come from the hog badger (I'm going to start calling it Manchurian badger).

Source: brush makers in China & a lot of research. Also, simple deductive reasoning after learning of the second badger species.

And yes, the badger doesn't survive the process.

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 07-31-2012, 08:17 PM
#2
  • Teiste
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  • Salt Lake City,UT
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Thank you so much for your explanation.

So according to your knowledge,the finest badger hair (two band) and black hair,comes from this kind of badger,the hog badger :

[Image: HogBadger.jpg]

while the silvertip,super,best and grey badger hair,comes from this other kind of badger,the Meles Meles or Eurasian Badger :

[Image: badg22.jpg]

Interesting.The hog badger is kind a discovery for me.I now wonder is the hair from honey badger is also used for shaving brush making.

Honey badger :

[Image: hissy-honey-badger.jpg]

Regarding if the European badger have migrated to China,I know that have been introduced there,but I cant tell if was by man or by a migration.

Thanks a lot for the information.

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 07-31-2012, 08:21 PM
#3
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Honey badger, no. Lol. So many jokes if they were though.

But yes, exactly. You can see that the Eurasian badger doesn't have any areas of pure black other than the legs, which wouldn't yield long enough hair. Whereas the hog badger has long black hair. You can really see it in this picture.

[Image: medium.jpg]

The soft hairs come from the neck, the slightly less soft hairs come from the front shoulders.

There's also the Sand Badger which is a sub species of meles meles.

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 07-31-2012, 08:30 PM
#4
  • Teiste
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  • Salt Lake City,UT
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Interesting once again.
So,do you know when the badgers are "harvested"?Is it during the whole year,just a particular time of the year?I understand that is during the whole year,but only during a particular time,when they are "harvested" you can get am "special" kind of hair,like the Plisson HMW.
Maybe you know more about this and can share it with us.

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 07-31-2012, 08:53 PM
#5
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Interesting!

I wonder what roasted badger tastes like?

And can anyone imagine how mean tempered a sheared badger would be after the shearing?

Maybe gene splice badger hair genes onto a sheep?

OK, just brainstorming, it's late.

Those are nothing like the NA badgers. I wonder if ours have ever been used by anyone?

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 07-31-2012, 09:08 PM
#6
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(07-31-2012, 08:53 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: I wonder what roasted badger tastes like?

I suppose I could ask someone.... I bet the answer is "like chicken but game-y and tougher"

Quote:And can anyone imagine how mean tempered a sheared badger would be after the shearing?

Lol, it probably couldn't survive to be honest. But that aside, if you shaved it during the summer, the hair would be really short. And if you shaved it during the winter, if you sheared the hair instead of well.... pulling it out, the shafts probably wouldn't be long enough to make anything bigger than a 18mm brush.

Case in point: grey badger is only about 64mm long. Typical silvertip knot in 22mm is 70mm.

NA badgers are nasty. Their pelts are used for fur coats and stuff. You can find taxidermists and hunters on the internet. Crazy stuff.... I don't recommend looking.

(07-31-2012, 08:30 PM)Teiste Wrote: Interesting once again.
So,do you know when the badgers are "harvested"?Is it during the whole year,just a particular time of the year?I understand that is during the whole year,but only during a particular time,when they are "harvested" you can get am "special" kind of hair,like the Plisson HMW.
Maybe you know more about this and can share it with us.

It's illegal to harvest outside of the "season" just like we have hunting seasons. However, there's not much regulation in the rural areas. Also, there are nature preserves down in the south of China where the hog badger is protected. But they don't extend throughout the entire range of the animal. Source: conservation sites and badger fan sites.

I don't imagine the animal is actually harvested during the spring or summer months at all because the hair would be shorter and less valuable. They shed after the winter, get a summer coat, then grow it out again for the fall.

The hog badger may not shed as they live in the south where it doesn't get very cold.

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 07-31-2012, 10:59 PM
#7
  • beartrap
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  • Southern California
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(07-31-2012, 08:53 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: Interesting!

I wonder what roasted badger tastes like?

Badgers are still food in Russia and former USSR, there are some tasty dishes available, it tastes nothing like chicken, more like a deer Biggrin I don't know about roasting it but won't hurt to try. Nothing's going to waste from that animal. Even badger fat is used by many in homeopathic medicine, it actually works too Smile

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 07-31-2012, 11:09 PM
#8
  • Johnny
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  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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I picked up on one word here, "hog". No doubt for the snout it has. I still prefer my real hog brushes.Smile

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 07-31-2012, 11:16 PM
#9
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(07-31-2012, 11:09 PM)Johnny Wrote: I picked up on one word here, "hog". No doubt for the snout it has. I still prefer my real hog brushes.Smile

Lol. The Eurasian badger is called the dog badger in China.

Also, there is a second possibility for 2 band hair. Dying the bottoms or using some other method to give the 2 band appearance.

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 08-01-2012, 02:35 AM
#10
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Thanks for the information on this. It's good to know these things.

It may be pertinent to point out that all badger hair used in shaving brushes currently comes from China (if my information on this is correct).

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 08-01-2012, 02:40 AM
#11
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According to this (apparently) credible source, the Eurasian badger (Meles Meles) is native from several countries - including China (Xinjiang province), and not only west of the Volga river.

Apparently, there's a "corridor", south and west of the Caspian sea, that is also the habitat of this species - so it is possible that there are naturally occurring badgers in that area without the need to ever crossing the Volga... Being so, the Eurasian badger may have arrived to China not through Russia, but through the areas south of the Caspian sea, through Turkmenistan and Afghanistan, where it naturally occurs.

I also found this scientific paper - don't know if you guys have access to it - but basically it is a dissertation about the genetic profile of the Eurasian Badger (Meles Meles) in Japan. But I think that they are referring to another subspecies there.

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 08-01-2012, 05:19 AM
#12
  • ben74
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  • Perth, Australia
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Don't forget about the blonde badger species...

[attachment=4492]

Given that there are so many species of swine...

(including: American Landrace, American Yorkshire, Angeln Saddleback, Arapawa Island, Ba Xuyen, Bantu, Banza, Beijing Black, Belarus Black Pied, Belgian Landrace, Bentheim Black Pied Berkshire, Black Slavonian, British Landrace, British Lop, Bulgarian White, Cantonese, Chester White, Czech Improved White, Danish Landrace, Dermantsi Pied, Duroc, Dutch Landrace, Fengjing, Finnish Landrace, French Landrace, German Landrace, Gloucestershire Old Spot, Guinea Hog, Hampshire, Hereford, Hezuo, Iberian, Italian Landrace, Jinhua, Kele, Krskopolje, Kunekune, Lacombe, Large Black, Large Black-white, Large White, Lithuanian Native, Mangalitsa, Meishan, Middle White, Minzhu, Mong Cai, Mukota, Mora Romagnola, Moura, Mulefoot, Neijiang, Ningxiang, Norwegian Landrace, Ossabaw Island, Oxford Sandy and Black, Philippine Native, Pietrain, Poland China, Red Wattle, Saddleback, Spots, Swabian-Hall Swine, Swedish Landrace, Swallow Belied Mangalitza, Tamworth, Thuoc Nhieu, Tibetan, Turopolje and Vietnamese Potbelly) and that's just the Domestic Pig sub species...

There's also:


Western races (scrofa group) including:
Common wild boar
Iberian wild boar
Castillian wild boar
Sardinian wild boar
Italian wild boar
Sus scrofa attila
Barbary wild boar
Sus scrofa lybica
Sus scrofa sennaarensis
Sus scrofa nigripes

Indian races (cristatus group) including:
Indian wild boar
Sus scrofa affinis
Sus scrofa davidi
Manchurian wild boar (or Sus scrofa usurious) (No marketing gimmick here!)
Japanese wild boar
Ryuku wild boar
Formosan wild boar
Sus scrofa moupinensis
Siberian wild boar

Sundaic race (vittatus group) including:
Banded pig

... is there any similar debate regarding boar brushes and grades of hair... ? Tongue

I'm betting the majority of boar hair comes from the "Hogzilla" species...
[attachment=4494]
Just think how many brushes could be manufactured from a single pelt... Tongue

"Life is too important to be taken seriously." (Oscar Wilde Irish dramatist, novelist and poet, 1854 - 1900).

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 08-01-2012, 07:28 AM
#13
  • hon
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(07-31-2012, 08:53 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: I wonder what roasted badger tastes like?

http://huntergathercook.typepad.com/hunt...rgers.html

How about some badger burgers.

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 08-01-2012, 08:05 AM
#14
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(08-01-2012, 05:19 AM)ben74 Wrote: Don't forget about the blonde badger species...



Given that there are so many species of swine...

(including: American Landrace, American Yorkshire, Angeln Saddleback, Arapawa Island, Ba Xuyen, Bantu, Banza, Beijing Black, Belarus Black Pied, Belgian Landrace, Bentheim Black Pied Berkshire, Black Slavonian, British Landrace, British Lop, Bulgarian White, Cantonese, Chester White, Czech Improved White, Danish Landrace, Dermantsi Pied, Duroc, Dutch Landrace, Fengjing, Finnish Landrace, French Landrace, German Landrace, Gloucestershire Old Spot, Guinea Hog, Hampshire, Hereford, Hezuo, Iberian, Italian Landrace, Jinhua, Kele, Krskopolje, Kunekune, Lacombe, Large Black, Large Black-white, Large White, Lithuanian Native, Mangalitsa, Meishan, Middle White, Minzhu, Mong Cai, Mukota, Mora Romagnola, Moura, Mulefoot, Neijiang, Ningxiang, Norwegian Landrace, Ossabaw Island, Oxford Sandy and Black, Philippine Native, Pietrain, Poland China, Red Wattle, Saddleback, Spots, Swabian-Hall Swine, Swedish Landrace, Swallow Belied Mangalitza, Tamworth, Thuoc Nhieu, Tibetan, Turopolje and Vietnamese Potbelly) and that's just the Domestic Pig sub species...

There's also:


Western races (scrofa group) including:
Common wild boar
Iberian wild boar
Castillian wild boar
Sardinian wild boar
Italian wild boar
Sus scrofa attila
Barbary wild boar
Sus scrofa lybica
Sus scrofa sennaarensis
Sus scrofa nigripes

Indian races (cristatus group) including:
Indian wild boar
Sus scrofa affinis
Sus scrofa davidi
Manchurian wild boar (or Sus scrofa usurious) (No marketing gimmick here!)
Japanese wild boar
Ryuku wild boar
Formosan wild boar
Sus scrofa moupinensis
Siberian wild boar

Sundaic race (vittatus group) including:
Banded pig

... is there any similar debate regarding boar brushes and grades of hair... ? Tongue

I'm betting the majority of boar hair comes from the "Hogzilla" species...

Just think how many brushes could be manufactured from a single pelt... Tongue

"Life is too important to be taken seriously." (Oscar Wilde Irish dramatist, novelist and poet, 1854 - 1900).

There might be eventually! I've seen some interesting prototype boar brushes made from Iberian black boar hair. Just give it time, us traditional shavers will certainly find something to discuss given enough time. Biggrin Tongue

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 08-01-2012, 09:15 AM
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(08-01-2012, 02:40 AM)oversaturn Wrote: According to this (apparently) credible source, the Eurasian badger (Meles Meles) is native from several countries - including China (Xinjiang province), and not only west of the Volga river.

Apparently, there's a "corridor", south and west of the Caspian sea, that is also the habitat of this species - so it is possible that there are naturally occurring badgers in that area without the need to ever crossing the Volga... Being so, the Eurasian badger may have arrived to China not through Russia, but through the areas south of the Caspian sea, through Turkmenistan and Afghanistan, where it naturally occurs.

I also found this scientific paper - don't know if you guys have access to it - but basically it is a dissertation about the genetic profile of the Eurasian Badger (Meles Meles) in Japan. But I think that they are referring to another subspecies there.

After reading the papers more thoroughly, I have found the source of the confusion as to M. meles and being native to China or not.

Okay, this is the story:

Whatever has happened in the last century or so, the Meles meles badger has managed to make it throughout most of Europe and into China. Eventually, the eastern portion of the population has diverged a little. Whether the divergent sub groups are actually distinct is a different story, but there are some phenotypical differences. Head shape, teeth, etc.

The three groups are the "Sand" or asian badger which is east of the Volga, the Eurasian badger which is west of the Volga, and the Japanese badger, which is of course in Japan.

So, there was this one fellow who noticed that the badgers looked a little different the farther east he went. So, he decided that they would be classified a little differently. Today, there is a big debate as to whether they are all one species. China considers them all to be one species, at least the Asian and European badgers. Some people consider them distinct.

I honestly don't know and don't care all that much. The reality is that they're probably as distinct as humans are from the different regions of the globe.

They're all the same species. And they are native to China. Some people just want to classify them as a distinct sub group. They really don't look all that different.

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 08-01-2012, 01:49 PM
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  • slantman
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Thank you for giving us this valuable information.

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 08-01-2012, 06:06 PM
#17
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Excellent information on the various species and subspecies of Badger.

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 08-01-2012, 06:12 PM
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  • krissy
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(07-31-2012, 08:53 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: I wonder what roasted badger tastes like?

I know a couple of guys who go into old abandoned farmsteads particularly the houses looking for these critters to..... "harvest" for those with delicate sensibilities.

They are redneck enough to just try that if asked.

I think I'll stick with roasted venison "harvested" by yours truly.

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 08-01-2012, 06:58 PM
#19
  • freddy
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(08-01-2012, 06:12 PM)krissy Wrote:
(07-31-2012, 08:53 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: I wonder what roasted badger tastes like?

I know a couple of guys who go into old abandoned farmsteads particularly the houses looking for these critters to..... "harvest" for those with delicate sensibilities.

They are redneck enough to just try that if asked.

I think I'll stick with roasted venison "harvested" by yours truly.

Fuggedaboutit. Bambi and Rudolph winter at their oceanfront condominium in San Diego, California...far away from North Dakota hunting season. [Image: 1lg039razz.gif]

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 08-01-2012, 08:16 PM
#20
  • Teiste
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Ok gents,enough of the roasted whatever.
Lee have provided good info here about where the badger hair is coming and we should stick to that.
Thank you,guys.

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