08-17-2016, 06:49 AM
#1
  • beamon
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  • Greenville, SC USA
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How about the shortcomings? My question assumes optimal loft and grade of hair for the intended task. I face lather 90+% of the time. As a badger newbie, it seems like the variables are astronomical making a meaningful answer most difficult. Attempts at an answer will be appreciated, nonetheless.

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 08-17-2016, 07:10 AM
#2
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So are you basically looking for maximum backbone with maximum face contact?

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 08-17-2016, 08:09 AM
#3
  • beamon
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  • Greenville, SC USA
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(08-17-2016, 07:10 AM)vigilantesd Wrote: So are you basically looking for maximum backbone with maximum face contact?
Not necessarily maximum backbone, but a goodly amount. I'd like the knot to splay with a little goose from me, but once splayed, maintain the splay without a lot of extra force. I understand that at maximum face contact there must be a lot of backbone available. Hope I'm not making this an impossible mission.

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 08-17-2016, 09:13 AM
#4
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What are you using now, and what would you like to change about it? With a few details I think some others would be able to chime in with some input, including myself. I can't offer an ultimate answer, I cant even do that for myself lol, but I can offer my experience and possibly a recommendation or suggestion.

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 08-17-2016, 09:54 AM
#5
  • beamon
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  • Greenville, SC USA
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(08-17-2016, 09:13 AM)vigilantesd Wrote: What are you using now, and what would you like to change about it? With a few details I think some others would be able to chime in with some input, including myself. I can't offer an ultimate answer, I cant even do that for myself lol, but I can offer my experience and possibly a recommendation or suggestion.
Since returning to wet shaving, I've used only 4 modern synthetics and been happy with them, but you know what hanging around a board like this will do to you. Only points of dissatisfaction with my synthetics are their relative lack of water retention and feeling I had to force a splay and then keep mashing the brush to maintain the splay. I can control the water from running down my face and chest by not wetting the synthetic completely, but that messes up the loading and operation of the brush.

A few weeks ago, I bought the well reviewed Sterling badger brush for $30.00 and have been quite taken with it, to the point of being willing to take the next step up to better badger, thus my questions. I've pretty well concluded that the Shavemac 2 band Silvertip knot is a safe acquisition, but the strengths and weaknesses of the knot shapes are a bit of a mystery.

Considering the extent that YMMV plays in wet shaving, I realize that firm recommendations can never be made; only starting points made by knowledgable people can be offered. If I can properly deduce from that informed input, perhaps I can reduce the size of the learning curve a bit.

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 08-17-2016, 10:23 AM
#6
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(08-17-2016, 09:54 AM)beamon Wrote:
(08-17-2016, 09:13 AM)vigilantesd Wrote: What are you using now, and what would you like to change about it? With a few details I think some others would be able to chime in with some input, including myself. I can't offer an ultimate answer, I cant even do that for myself lol, but I can offer my experience and possibly a recommendation or suggestion.
Since returning to wet shaving, I've used only 4 modern synthetics and been happy with them, but you know what hanging around a board like this will do to you. Only points of dissatisfaction with my synthetics are their relative lack of water retention and feeling I had to force a splay and then keep mashing the brush to maintain the splay. I can control the water from running down my face and chest by not wetting the synthetic completely, but that messes up the loading and operation of the brush.

A few weeks ago, I bought the well reviewed Sterling badger brush for $30.00 and have been quite taken with it, to the point of being willing to take the next step up to better badger, thus my questions. I've pretty well concluded that the Shavemac 2 band Silvertip knot is a safe acquisition, but the strengths and weaknesses of the knot shapes are a bit of a mystery.

Considering the extent that YMMV plays in wet shaving, I realize that firm recommendations can never be made; only starting points made by knowledgable people can be offered. If I can properly deduce from that informed input, perhaps I can reduce the size of the learning curve a bit.
If you want backbone, soft tips, and the ability to splay, I think a Shavemac 2 band would be a great choice. I've got one (23x48) and it's a great little brush. I plan on getting a larger one soon-ish (I prefer 28mm). What size knots do you like? Were you looking to go bigger? I've not used the Stirling yet, so I can't really say what a Shavemac 2 band would offer over the Stirling. I have read gleaming reviews of that Stirling brush though. Maybe someone that has used one can chime in =)

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 08-17-2016, 11:43 AM
#7
  • beamon
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  • Greenville, SC USA
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(08-17-2016, 10:23 AM)vigilantesd Wrote: If you want backbone, soft tips, and the ability to splay, I think a Shavemac 2 band would be a great choice. I've got one (23x48) and it's a great little brush. I plan on getting a larger one soon-ish (I prefer 28mm). What size knots do you like? Were you looking to go bigger? I've not used the Stirling yet, so I can't really say what a Shavemac 2 band would offer over the Stirling. I have read gleaming reviews of that Stirling brush though. Maybe someone that has used one can chime in =)
The Sterling is 24mm but it feels bigger on my face. It feels as big as a 28mm synthetic that I have. I've read that this is often the case with badger.

The Shavemac knot that I've been eyeing is the 25x50 or 25x48 2 band Silvertip. The Shavemac bulb knots look, to my eye, like hybrid shapes rather than the classic bulbs that I see elsewhere. That's what prompted the thread title. Is my observation valid, or am I just seeing things? No mistaking the fan, though.

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 08-17-2016, 01:10 PM
#8
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(08-17-2016, 11:43 AM)beamon Wrote:
(08-17-2016, 10:23 AM)vigilantesd Wrote: If you want backbone, soft tips, and the ability to splay, I think a Shavemac 2 band would be a great choice. I've got one (23x48) and it's a great little brush. I plan on getting a larger one soon-ish (I prefer 28mm). What size knots do you like? Were you looking to go bigger? I've not used the Stirling yet, so I can't really say what a Shavemac 2 band would offer over the Stirling. I have read gleaming reviews of that Stirling brush though. Maybe someone that has used one can chime in =)
The Sterling is 24mm but it feels bigger on my face. It feels as big as a 28mm synthetic that I have. I've read that this is often the case with badger.

The Shavemac knot that I've been eyeing is the 25x50 or 25x48 2 band Silvertip. The Shavemac bulb knots look, to my eye, like hybrid shapes rather than the classic bulbs that I see elsewhere. That's what prompted the thread title. Is my observation valid, or am I just seeing things? No mistaking the fan, though.
Ok, gotcha! 

If the 28mm one you have is the same one I have, it doesn't splay like other synthetics. I have also used L'Occitane Plisson, AMACK Game Changer, Italian Barber Plissoft, Stirling, and the current Simpson. They all feel different, and still have splay, unlike the 28mm "Fauxmere". Do you remember where you got it?


My Shavemac is a fan, and I enjoy it just fine. I did notice their bulbs do look more hybrid, too. For what it's worth, the fan I own is great, plenty of backbone with the 2 band hair, and my next one will be a fan, too. If I decide on a D01, I may even go with a flat-top haha. So, I suppose IMO, you wouldn't need the shape to supply any more backbone, it does just fine in fan shape, which will feel larger on your face, too. 

I hope that helps

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 08-17-2016, 01:59 PM
#9
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I've ordered several bulbs from Bernd and have always requested they be built rounded and not pointy. All in all, I still prefer Paladin's hybrid bulbs for looks and performance.

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 08-17-2016, 03:38 PM
#10
  • kav
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I am a 100 Percent face latherer. I used a fan and currently two classic bulbs. I was honored to try three different Paladins. The 'hybrid' is superb. But, to be honest when you get into these high quality brushes so many other pleasurable factors kick in it's hard to maintain objectivity and focus on critical details. Our
custom brushmakers are not unlike bespoke tailors making a multiple fitting suit. WHEN they have a chance, I would talk with them.

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 08-17-2016, 04:33 PM
#11
  • beamon
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  • Greenville, SC USA
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(08-17-2016, 01:10 PM)vigilantesd Wrote: My Shavemac is a fan, and I enjoy it just fine. I did notice their bulbs do look more hybrid, too. For what it's worth, the fan I own is great, plenty of backbone with the 2 band hair, and my next one will be a fan, too. If I decide on a D01, I may even go with a flat-top haha. So, I suppose IMO, you wouldn't need the shape to supply any more backbone, it does just fine in fan shape, which will feel larger on your face, too. 

I hope that helps
It does, indeed. Thanks.
(08-17-2016, 01:59 PM)rsp1202 Wrote: I've ordered several bulbs from Bernd and have always requested they be built rounded and not pointy. All in all, I still prefer Paladin's hybrid bulbs for looks and performance.
I feel sure that a Paladin and a Varlet are in my future, but for now, I'd like to get something upscale that is available to use and learn from. Later, I'll have the patience to wait for the hard to get brushes.
(08-17-2016, 03:38 PM)kav Wrote: I am a 100 Percent face latherer. I used a fan and currently two classic bulbs. I was honored to try three different Paladins. The 'hybrid' is superb. But, to be honest when you get into these high quality brushes so many other pleasurable factors kick in it's hard to maintain objectivity and focus on critical details. Our
custom brushmakers are not unlike bespoke tailors making a multiple fitting suit. WHEN they have a chance, I would talk with them.
Right you are. I can certainly solicit the views of Mark (Simpson) and Bernd (Shavemac) and see what they would recommend as a next step. I have a small Rudy Veh synthetic also. He would be good to talk to as well.

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 08-17-2016, 04:51 PM
#12
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For the longest time I thought I preferred fans.

I have plenty of hybrids.

A few months ago I had to concede that the bulb shape works best for the way I shave.

I have no love for synthetics. Tried them and moved on. Aside from drying quickly I saw nothing more appealing about them.

I'm looking to go down the Shavemac route for Christmas. I intend on ordering an exaggerated bulb along the lines of Thaeter. In the meantime I'm patiently waiting for my last fan shaped brush. A Varlet. 

Simpsons is the first brand I think of when I hear hybrid in regards to shaving brushes. Their Best badger is a good starting point. I've never really seen a Simpsons manchurian in anything else but a fan. I'd like to though.

Paladin does the hybrid shape the best. The loft of all three of mine in Select is simply perfect. Obvious that time and consideration is given to each one to deliver an optimum finished product overall. 

Envy White brushes are something worth consideration as well. I think their bulbs are sort of a hybrid shape. They definitely have backbone and body along with comfort in great balance that I can't compare others to. 

Finally TGN's Finest. Always a good option that doesn't break the bank. Not incredibly consistent or as predictable as other brands though.

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 08-17-2016, 04:56 PM
#13
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To me a M&F hybrid feels different then a Thater bulb and a Simpson fan all have a category. To me the hybrid does not express either of the fan or bulbs virtues as it is its own entity.

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 08-17-2016, 06:17 PM
#14
  • kav
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Hybrid does not mean compromise, inferiority or even superiority. It means different; a word in this community lexicon that roughly translates into " I must have one'.

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 08-17-2016, 06:53 PM
#15
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I would agree.  The hybrids I have, which are all 2-bands, contact the face well and have a controlled splay without deforming.  It's how the knot splays against the face that is the key.  I had a shavemac 2-band bulb that was fairly rounded but still a pure bulb.  I found it too pointed/focused to splay well.  So I used it making painting strokes, but it didn't release lather while using this technique as well as a fan or hybrid.  Now this was a 2-band; no doubt a 3 band bulb behaves differently.  The only 3 band bulb I have, the Epsilon, is a bit of a hybrid as well and it is so dense that it's kind of in a category of its own.  I might get another 3 band fan or a 3 band bulb but for now the 2 band hybrid is my fave knot.

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 08-17-2016, 07:00 PM
#16
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(08-17-2016, 11:43 AM)beamon Wrote:
(08-17-2016, 10:23 AM)vigilantesd Wrote: If you want backbone, soft tips, and the ability to splay, I think a Shavemac 2 band would be a great choice. I've got one (23x48) and it's a great little brush. I plan on getting a larger one soon-ish (I prefer 28mm). What size knots do you like? Were you looking to go bigger? I've not used the Stirling yet, so I can't really say what a Shavemac 2 band would offer over the Stirling. I have read gleaming reviews of that Stirling brush though. Maybe someone that has used one can chime in =)
The Sterling is 24mm but it feels bigger on my face. It feels as big as a 28mm synthetic that I have. I've read that this is often the case with badger.

The Shavemac knot that I've been eyeing is the 25x50 or 25x48 2 band Silvertip. The Shavemac bulb knots look, to my eye, like hybrid shapes rather than the classic bulbs that I see elsewhere. That's what prompted the thread title. Is my observation valid, or am I just seeing things? No mistaking the fan, though.
I got a Shavemac 2-band bulb and it was pretty much a classic round bulb shape, not a flatter-topped hybrid similar to the Paladins.  I've never seen a Shavemac in a hybrid shape.  If you want the dimensions youre describing, I'd do it with a fan.  If you get a bulb, go higher loft.  For example, Bernd's standard loft for a 26 mm bulb is 56 I think.  The one I got in a group buy was 26x50 and I felt the loft was too low.  My feeling is the more round the bulb, the higher loft you want.  I think there's a bit of a fetish for backbone among high end badger aficionados, which is why lots of people go for such lower lofts.  With the 2 band hair you are in no danger of getting a floppy brush.  If you have the Stirling, like I do, you know what I mean.  That is a 24 mm brush with a high loft and it is less dense than a Shavemac 2 band.  Is it floppy?  No.  

If you are getting a Shavemac 2 band brush, listen to Bernd when it comes to loft.  You won't regret it.

Just my hard earned experience.  Fortunately my Shavemac had an awesome handle on it so I was able to sell at cost and my funds are sitting in Paypal, patiently waiting to hear from Aldo.   Wink

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 08-18-2016, 03:29 AM
#17
  • beamon
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(08-17-2016, 07:00 PM)surfshaver Wrote: Fortunately my Shavemac had an awesome handle on it so I was able to sell at cost and my funds are sitting in Paypal, patiently waiting to hear from Aldo.   Wink
Heh, heh, heh! If that's the upcoming TSN LE you're referring to, I'm really looking forward to watching the fracas that ensues when that puppy hits the board. Oh sure, I'll dip my foot into the process, but knowiing my luck in such pursuits, I'll just end up on Aldo's wait list later on when he's through supplying the TSN LE and gets back to his business as usual status.

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 08-18-2016, 07:12 AM
#18
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(08-18-2016, 03:29 AM)beamon Wrote:
(08-17-2016, 07:00 PM)surfshaver Wrote: Fortunately my Shavemac had an awesome handle on it so I was able to sell at cost and my funds are sitting in Paypal, patiently waiting to hear from Aldo.   Wink
Heh, heh, heh! If that's the upcoming TSN LE you're referring to, I'm really looking forward to watching the fracas that ensues when that puppy hits the board. Oh sure, I'll dip my foot into the process, but knowiing my luck in such pursuits, I'll just end up on Aldo's wait list later on when he's through supplying the TSN LE and gets back to his business as usual status.

No, I'm on the wait list for a Beehive.  The LE looks awesome but like you said, it's a crapshoot.  If the LE goes down before my number comes up and I manage to get one, then great, of not, I'll just keep waiting.

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 08-21-2016, 05:55 AM
#19
  • beamon
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Well, I've looked long enough and listened long enough and decided to get off the mark and take the next step toward higher end badger brushes. As I figured it would, the Sterling badger brush lured me into it and TSN's expert enablers completed the task. Wink  Being the personification of "Mr. Everyman", I do nothing very extravagantly and opted for what I consider a 'safe choice' and one that I can move along should it be a terrible misfit (doubtful because I'm also 'Mr. Adaptable').

Will this brush catapult me yet farther into the realm of badger where my daydreams are of cute little badgers lining up, voluntarily, to have their bellies plucked of their treasures, then scampering back into their holes to produce babies that will increase the supply of fine hair for our delight? The 64$ question, to be sure. 

And what is this generic tool of the trade that will soon be crossing the pond, bound for my hot little hands which will guide it in its intended use as maker of fine lather? 'Mr Ordinary Badger Brush' will be: SHAVEMAC - 25 mm 2 band Silvertip, bulb shape, set at 52 mm loft in a Jade colored #142 handle. Being the weekend, it'll probably languish a few days before beginning the fulfillment process, but who's in a hurry?

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 08-21-2016, 06:58 AM
#20
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That's a fine choice indeed, I've a soft spot in my heart for shavemac. I look forward to seeing a photo as well as reading about your experiences.

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