10-09-2016, 12:06 PM
#1
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We often hear the song about the caned goo from Gillette and the other shaving foam and gel products on the market and how they are not that good for your skin, with all the different chemicals they add to the canned goo products.


Then I wonder if anyone know how safe the essential oils and fragrances, that are in most of the shaving soap and cream we use ?

Do the added fragrance and Essential Oil in our wonderfull smelling soap and creams cause any kind of risk, as compard to for instance the canned goo products, that so many of us dislike because of all the unnecessary chemical in them (and their poor performance)?

Have anyone made experiments or can you find a test result, that shows if the fragrance in shaving soap and cream can cause any kind of health issues to the user, especially if you use the same same shaving soap for a longer period of time ?

I do sometimes consider how healthy it is to put scented shaving soap/cream directly into your beard area, and massaging in it with a brush. Actually this has made me want to go back to revisit the bowl lathering method, because I feel you massage most of the soap/cream into the walls of the bowl, and then only mildly paint it on your skin/beard area afterwards, whereas with face lathering, I enjoy to spend at least 3-4-5 minutes to massage and create the lather on my face directly, thus in that face lathering process you actually massage the fragranced soaps/cream further into your skin, than you do when bowl lathring and just paiting it on your skin.


But we actually don't know the risks with scented soaps/creams, which we use on our body and face daily.


Must admit, that I sometimes think of selling all my scented soaps/creams and just staying with 8-10 great unscented soaps/creams for that very reason. May be boring, but the scent only lingers for a short while during the shave anyway.
I also some times consider using a neutral alcohol free after shave balm, and a fragrance free after shave splash.
Well, I may be overthinking things a bit here, not the first time and most certainly not the last time I do that  Cheers

I have a big rotation of soap and creams and rarely use the same product twice the same month, but I still wonder how safe the fragrance in my soap and creams really are in the long run ?

Am I the only one, wondering about this issue ?

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 10-09-2016, 12:19 PM
#2
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In my view, I don't 't think we know.  Some of the ingredients in shaving creams and soaps, as well as other cosmetic products, are reported to be carcinogenic or otherwise detrimental to human health.  However, I don't know if thereare credible scientific studies showing this.

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 10-09-2016, 02:40 PM
#3
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I agree w/ LegalRazor.  I'm starting to make soap and have both essential and fragrance oils.  They all say on the side not to use if you are pregnant or have an illness without consulting your doctor.

Another piece of data is that the US Food & Drug Admin and The EU allow them to be used.  Though I'm American, I have more trust in The EU on things like this.  Not a guarantee they are safe of course.

At the end of the day, I enjoy scents and fragrances so much that I'm willing to accept what I perceive as relatively low risk.

Most of essential oils and fragrance oils are the carrier oils.  I would think those are generally safe.

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 10-09-2016, 02:50 PM
#4
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(10-09-2016, 02:40 PM)Pete123 Wrote: I agree w/ LegalRazor.  I'm starting to make soap and have both essential and fragrance oils.  They all say on the side not to use if you are pregnant or have an illness without consulting your doctor.

Another piece of data is that the US Food & Drug Admin and The EU allow them to be used.  Though I'm American, I have more trust in The EU on things like this.  Not a guarantee they are safe of course.

At the end of the day, I enjoy scents and fragrances so much that I'm willing to accept what I perceive as relatively low risk.

Most of essential oils and fragrance oils are the carrier oils.  I would think those are generally safe.

I will continue using fragrances, even though they also could be hazardous - but I try to make sure I don't inhale them, while applying them and will focus on spraying on clothing and away from my face.

Problem is with shaving soap and shavin creams, that you actually smear on your skin direcly and as a face latherer in fact massage for minutes into your skin and pores.

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 10-09-2016, 02:54 PM
#5
  • evnpar
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  • Portland, Oregon
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(10-09-2016, 12:06 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Must admit, that I sometimes think of selling all my scented soaps/creams and just staying with 8-10 great unscented soaps/creams for that very reason. 

Interesting post, Hans, only I'd like to see you sell your hundreds of soaps and creams and only shave with unscented.  Tongue

Much of the fun of wet shaving for me is trying out various scents. If I had to only shave with an unscented soap, I think I'd go back to using one soap and one razor again, and would probably start viewing shaving as a morning chore again, instead of a pleasurable hobby.

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 10-09-2016, 03:05 PM
#6
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(10-09-2016, 12:19 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: In my view, I don't 't think we know.  Some of the ingredients in shaving creams and soaps, as well as other cosmetic products, are reported to be carcinogenic or otherwise detrimental to human health.  However, I don't know if thereare credible scientific studies showing this.

Someone should look into this to be honest.

We have a lot of artisan making soap in teir kitchen under not very official controlled and regulated conditions. All the talk here is about how safe artisan soaps are, but - to the best of my knowledge - no one has addressed the issue of lack of control with what kind of fragrance oils, essential oils and perfume, these soaps contain - or am I wrong here ?

It's not like I trust the big brands more - we don't know what the makers of the DR. Harris, TF&H, GFT and TOBS use in their creams and soaps either.
But they are under EU restrictions and as sch they are forced to undergo certain extra steps to clarify what their products contains.
But still we can't be sure if the perfume, fragrance and essential oils used in the soaps dn creams are safe to use in the long run.

I know, I know - it's hazardous to live, you die from it  Biggrin 

But seriously - do we know anything concrete about what kind of fragrance, perfume and essential oils the soap/cream makers use in their soaps and how high the concentration is ?
I am by no means an evironment nerd, but the incident with Phonix & Beau and his lack of knowledge of correct curing of the soap, and the amonia smell some users hahev reported coming from his soaps just made me wonder about this subject.

I own all P&B soaps, in fact still have 6 brand new unused ready to use soaps from him, that I received 2 weeks ago from Connaught shaving.
My opinion is that P&B soaps are fantastic perfomers, and I like the scents - but truth to be told, after buying a couple, that had the lack of proper curing of the soap incident and consequently were 30-40% full, I bought 6 P&B from Paul at Connaught, and I specifically made Paul aware of the 30-40% filled soaps, I bought from another vendor (shaving station) and communicated with Kerry from P&B about it.
Paul from Connaught then told me all his stock of P&B was bradn new. I then made the order and recevied the 6 soaps - 2 are 30-40% full, 2 are 50-60% full, 2 are 70-80% full. 

This incident just made me realize, that we know very little of who makes the soaps, what ingredients they use, what kind of essential oils/fragrance they add to the soaps, and if these ingredients really are safe for us in the long run.

I love and cherish my HUGE soap and cream collection - but as said, this recent incident with P&B made me wonder how much trust we really place in these soap makers hands.

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 10-09-2016, 03:23 PM
#7
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(10-09-2016, 02:54 PM)evnpar Wrote:
(10-09-2016, 12:06 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Must admit, that I sometimes think of selling all my scented soaps/creams and just staying with 8-10 great unscented soaps/creams for that very reason. 

Interesting post, Hans, only I'd like to see you sell your hundreds of soaps and creams and only shave with unscented.  Tongue

Much of the fun of wet shaving for me is trying out various scents. If I had to only shave with an unscented soap, I think I'd go back to using one soap and one razor again, and would probably start viewing shaving as a morning chore again, instead of a pleasurable hobby.

Richard,

My name is Claus  Euro
I actually do consider going all uncented - I stress CONSIDER  Biggrin
I agree, that a big part of the fun are the scents, but I just had a recent incident with a soap artisan, that made me think an extra time about this subject.......

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 10-09-2016, 03:33 PM
#8
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Nobody really knows, what the extent of damage fragrances or essential cause could cause. IFRA has outrightly banned certain ingredients from fragrances and cosmetics, but some are allowed in restricted quantities. http://www.essentialoils.co.za/banned-oils.htm

I started making shaving soap about a year ago. To save on costs, I used no EO or FO or aroma chemical up to my 49th batch. I've come to realize that scent is unimportant and overrated in a shaving soap, but really essential for the post shave balm and splash I have made.

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 10-09-2016, 03:44 PM
#9
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Let's not use IFRA as the model of rational decison-making - their oakmoss ban is a bunch of horse shit based on a single study that showed sensitization (e.g. allergy over several uses) in some 1% of subjects. We don't pull peanut butter off the shelves and it can straight up kill people who are allergic. We just label it PEANUT butter and expect people to read the label.

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 10-09-2016, 04:04 PM
#10
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While not a active member of the IFRA, North America I follow their 'Code of Practice' and purchase my fragrance components, both natural and synthetic from member companies and follow the strict guidelines set forth on each individual component as supplied to me by the manufacturer.

Other ingredients used in the making of my soap are purchased from companies specializing in supplying the cosmetic industry and are either food or cosmetic grade and of the highest quality. 

Regarding our industry in North America, it is up to each individual company to follow good manufacturing procedures to ensure the safety of their own products. I take to this task very seriously and have done my best to make sure I'm operating at well above what are considered acceptable levels.

I cannot stress this enough but the safety of my products for their intended use is of the utmost importance to me!

Here is a little info on the IFRA if you are not familiar;
http://www.ifraorg.org/Upload/DownloadBu...v_2014.pdf

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 10-09-2016, 04:19 PM
#11
  • kav
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If you take a recently deceased individual today the mean average time for decomposition to begin is longer than a body a few generations ago. Why? preservatives in our processed foods. One of the most toxic substances on earth is the breast milk of a western mother. Air pollution from Mainland China including lead is circulated worldwide. Radioactive fallout from Chernoble is found in dangerous levels of the Sammi people's reindeer and dairy cows in the UK. Fallout from the Fukashima disaster is affecting northern pacific fish stocks. I observed a pink, yellow and sky blue with brown streaks iceberg pup on a arctic patrol. The pilot explained it was congealed and frozen waste from airline toilets jettisoned in flight. Nitrogen runoff from commercial agriculture is creating massive dead zones offshore.

I could go on, but need to splash some cologne as nosegay first.

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 10-09-2016, 04:26 PM
#12
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P&B's unscented soap is great. Sometimes is add a drop of EO from my trusted makers. 
A good point you raise. I have skin issues an many soaps and creams are problematic. I believe it has to do with the EO and, even more, FO they use. Confirmation is limited to a couple of makers though.

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 10-09-2016, 04:52 PM
#13
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I must stress here, that I love my scented soaps and I would rather not be without them.

But the topic, while quite sensitive since the owner of the forum owns a shaving shop, that sells soap and cream among other great stuff, must still be of interest to pretty much all Gentlemen, that shaves using a shaving soap or a shaving cream and after the shave uses an after shave with fragrance and or alcohol in it.

Since we basically strip the skin of the outer layer of skin, while we shave, the skin pores are very much open to accept any substance we put on our skin during and after the shave.
Hence we should all have an interest in what kind of product we apply to that open sensitive area on our body.

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 10-09-2016, 04:53 PM
#14
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I agree.  I do agree I have enough soaps and creams where I do not us any one twice in a month. However gentlemen, this topic or question should have further consideration. I know that there a physicians, pharmacists and scientists on the blog. It would be interesting and helpful if one or several could give their opinion regarding this question.

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 10-09-2016, 04:55 PM
#15
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Claus,

I don't think you can get a definitive answer one way or the other.  

The most important safety thing I've learned so far as I begin making soap is to check the ph of the soap to ensure that all the lye has saponified.

The fragrances I'm getting at this point come from bulkapothecary.com, which has a section of fragrance oils for use in soap making.  I can tell you that I won't be getting cheap fragrance oil off of Amazon because I have no idea of the quality or what is in them.

I hope to become an artisan.  It is important to me to use high quality ingredients which I expect to be safe, both because the safety of others matters to me and because everything I'm making gets tested on me.

I've personally met several artisan's.  The folks I've met are people who I trust to try to take care of the safety of their customers as best they know how.

It seems to me that the wet shaving community and artisan community draw a certain kind of person that is a decent person.  I think of them in contrast to a multitude of industries that have shown time and again that nothing matters but money.

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 10-09-2016, 05:00 PM
#16
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(10-09-2016, 04:04 PM)ColdRiverSoap Wrote: While not a active member of the IFRA, North America I follow their 'Code of Practice' and purchase my fragrance components, both natural and synthetic from member companies and follow the strict guidelines set forth on each individual component as supplied to me by the manufacturer.

Other ingredients used in the making of my soap are purchased from companies specializing in supplying the cosmetic industry and are either food or cosmetic grade and of the highest quality. 

Regarding our industry in North America, it is up to each individual company to follow good manufacturing procedures to ensure the safety of their own products. I take to this task very seriously and have done my best to make sure I'm operating at well above what are considered acceptable levels.

I cannot stress this enough but the safety of my products for their intended use is of the utmost importance to me!

Here is a little info on the IFRA if you are not familiar;
http://www.ifraorg.org/Upload/DownloadBu...v_2014.pdf

Larry I'm a huge fan of your shaving soaps, and would rather not be without them.
They are top performers and the scents are very well made, not too strong, not too faint.

I still hope you can understand the reason behind my post. I'm not going after anyone, I just wanted to know if there was any kind of information out there regarding this subject.
You have provided a link which I will read carefully - I have no doubt you care a lot about your customers, I know 110% you do !!

FYI If I was ever to consider going unscented/unfragranced your CRSW v2 Unscented would be the VERY first shaving soap I would buy, if in stock, because the performance is TOP TOP NOTCH !

My issue is just, that if there are no real scientific test results on this subject, we're are all pretty much left in the dark.

I will continue to read posters input in this thread, and hope it can stay open, even though the subject is on the sensitive side.

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 10-09-2016, 05:47 PM
#17
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Claus, no worries my friend as I understand the spirit of your post!

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 10-09-2016, 06:56 PM
#18
  • kav
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Clause, Your interest is valid. But with all due empathy to your OCB urban humanity is making itself MORE vulnerable to injury by overzealous hygiene. The recent revelations on anti bacterial soap and it's negative effects one example. We are missing a critical gut flora in North America still present in southern hemisphere populations. I could go nuts trying to avoid all the plastic containers, fossil burning Rolls Royces, Palm Oil products and unhealthy foods I hypocritically enjoy. Sometimes, the best antidote to health fears is to roll in the dirt, get wet and dirty and bring home bugs and lizards to escape into our siblings bedrooms.

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 10-10-2016, 05:46 AM
#19
  • Nero
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(10-09-2016, 12:06 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Must admit, that I sometimes think of selling all my scented soaps/creams and just staying with 8-10 great unscented soaps/creams for that very reason. May be boring, but the scent only lingers for a short while during the shave anyway.

Agree on both points here. (Plus, I don't think most of the soaps are as good as their reviews say they are.) That's why I've sold hundreds of soaps/creams.

And, I have a VERY KEEN sense of smell, and I rarely smell the product after a minute of it being on my face.

So yes, I'll take health and performance over a fantastic scent, any day of the year.

Thanks Claus.

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 10-10-2016, 07:01 AM
#20
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(10-10-2016, 05:46 AM)Nero Wrote:
(10-09-2016, 12:06 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Must admit, that I sometimes think of selling all my scented soaps/creams and just staying with 8-10 great unscented soaps/creams for that very reason. May be boring, but the scent only lingers for a short while during the shave anyway.

Agree on both points here. (Plus, I don't think most of the soaps are as good as their reviews say they are.) That's why I've sold hundreds of soaps/creams.

And, I have a VERY KEEN sense of smell, and I rarely smell the product after a minute of it being on my face.

So yes, I'll take health and performance over a fantastic scent, any day of the year.

Thanks Claus.

Matt, you're welcome  Smile

I think I might consider doing this for a start, sort of to dial it down a bit with all the scents, that I massage deep into my skin pores:

I will over the next couple of moths start to only use my milder scented and unscented soaps/cream for face lathering, where I really massage the soap/cream deep into the skin and pores for several minutes.

Then I will start to begin bowl lather most of my scented soaps and creams, so I only paint the lather on, not massaging it deep into the skin, as I do, when face lathering. Might not make a huge difference, but I do believe it's actually more healthy for your skin to bowl lather, if you want to turn down on the amount of essential oils and fragrance oils you literally drive onto and perhaps into your skin, when making the thorough face lathers, I tend to make, when I create the lather directly on my face.

I currently olny own 3 unscented creams- Xpec old, TOBS Organic and TOBS Natural - but Savonniere du Moulin soap, Haslinger, Klar Seifen and MWF soap all have quite mild scents, so I will continue using these for face lathering.
Don't actually know if this will make a huge difference, but I don't believe it's that healthy and safe to deeply massage scnted soaps and creams into your open skin pores on your face in the long run. Can't see it being that healthy to be honest. So I'd rather take my chance and bowl lather the scented soaps and cream I have in my den, just painting the lather top of my beard area, only working it in just slightly.

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