10-13-2016, 08:46 PM
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I started out buying a couple of pots of P&B soap, and liked both of the scents, Citrus Royal and Sanskrit.
But Kerry, the owner of P&B had this curing problem, so he moved them out of his shop before the soaps were probably cured, thus they ended up scrinking to less then 40% of the container and a good deal less, than what they should be.

I complained and found out several others did the same.
Kerry promised to correct the mistake by letting them cure probably and even overfill his containers, to avoid further problems.

Based on that, and thr fact that my truty vendor, Connaugt Shaving, told me al their new stock was just that: new stock, and they were all filled, as they should be - not to the brim, because it's 115 gram soap in a 200 gram container, but probably filled.

So based on that bought Sanskrit, Citrus Roayla, Denali, Solaris, Spitfire and Albion from Connaught shaving.

I still trust this shop - and will still continue buying from Paul, BUT what I received was this:

2 Containers were 40-50% full
2 containers were 60-70% full
2 conatiners were 70-80% full

Now I have bought a soap/cream or 500+ since 2011, and I have never encountered an incident like this before, where you don't know if you receive a half full container or a container full of soap to almost the brim.

I don't exactly lack shaving soaps, so based on my first two pots, that both came not cured enough and 30-40% full, but performed EXCELLENT, I didn't care to contact Connaught Shaving.
I took the Solaris, which were close to 40% or less full, and intended to use it, even after hearing from 2 seasoned members here, that told me I should stay away from P&B soaps, one because his P&B had an amonia smell to it from the coconut oil, that wasn't cured enough or something........

I agree, the P&B all have a certain scent to them, that I can't quite describe, but far from a repulsive scent to my - rather well trined fragrance nose -  but definitely a rather unusual scent.

Can't tell you why, I normally am quite fast to throw a questionable product out of the window and move on - I have several 100 other soap in my den, that all need to be used ASAP, or they will collect dust.
But the first shaves I had with the two first un-cured soaps, both were great shaves with glide, slickness and cushion, that I rarely have encountered, so I somehow chose to forgive kerry and P&B for their mistake, even if they made the same mistake again i what was supposed to be brand new corrected batches.

Here is my opinion on Phoenix & Beau Solaris shaving soap.

As said, It came only filled 40% or even less to be honest. But it's in 200 gram containers and you only get 115 gram og soap, but let me tell you, this is less than 115 gram of soap - NO DOUBT ABOUT IT !
The scent out of the containers is a nice peppermint and rosewood, actually quite nice. It a bit stronger, I could see this scent in a Barrister & Mann soap, definitely quite an unsual scent, but to my nose quite an interesting pleasing scent. Not a 'Best scent ever' kind of scent, but very nice. Still this characteristic P&B profile scent in the background though, but a very nice scent overall.

The soap is actually more like a croap, or close to. Quite soft in texture.
Swirled my Stirling KONG synthetic in the po for 2-3 minutes, because I chose not to bloom/soap the soap, so even for a softer soap/croap it took a bit to fill up the brush with product.

Then face lathered with the KONG. The lather comes on thick and pasty and I really had to work it in quite a bit.
Added water little by littel. But this P&B soap can take quite a bit of water. I fac elathred for longer than I wanted to - 4-5 minutes.
In the end pressed the KONG in and instantly got the lather I wanted. Still thick and pasty. But very nice. And the scent really opned up. Very calming scent with the fresh peppermint in the background.

Excellent cushion, excellent slickness and glide, excellent protection, thoguh got a weeper on my chin.
Post shave feel was very very nice to. Soft skin. Soft feel. No tingle, when I applied the After Shave splash.

Perhaps not the best shaving soap ever, but performance wise very close to the TOP for me.

If Kerry can sort this curing problem totally out and fill his containers accordingly, also perhaps improve the quality of the plastic container bottom (The lid is very nice though and his labels are definitely great) he has a winner in my book.

If not for all the hazzle with curing, I would rate Phoenix & Beau at the very top of the  best shaving soaps I have ever used.
The soap reminds me a bit of the Caties Bubbles older softer top formula in performance, perhaps even a slight better glide and slickness.

So far I'm keeping all my P&B soaps, and have the Star Noir and Baskerville coming next month from Connaught Shaving.

[Image: R6GfIczl.jpg]

FYI The above photo is NOT my photo, but taken by Andy C, a member of The Shaving Room. Thank you.

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 10-13-2016, 08:52 PM
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My experience is limited to the unscented version and I like its performance. No issues with the volumen I received.

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 10-13-2016, 09:33 PM
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(10-13-2016, 08:46 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Based on that, and thr fact that my truty vendor, Connaugt Shaving, told me al their new stock was just that: new stock, and they were all filled, as they should be - not to the brim, because it's 115 gram soap in a 200 gram container, but probably filled.

I still trust this shop - and will still continue buying from Paul, BUT what I received was this:

2 Containers were 40-50% full
2 containers were 60-70% full
2 conatiners were 70-80% full

Claus,
how did you determine they were 40-50% full?  Did you weigh them and if so what were the weights?

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 10-13-2016, 11:22 PM
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To start off, I have to say that I have a very pleasing experience talking to Kerry from Phoenix & Beau and the excellent service from him.

I for one receive a bad batch from one of the vendor, without much hesitation, Kerry offered me a new tub to be send to Singapore(where I reside in), knowing how expensive the whole cost will be just to ship a tub over, I kindly postone the kind gesture and ask for a remedy that can be done at home.

He gave me some instruction of what can be done and I am going to try it out for a week. If the problem still persist I will have to kindly to have Kerry to send over a new tub for me.

Reason being, it's an excellent soap! I tried shaving with it today and it perform amazingly.

But sadly, the problem is still persisting.

In all, I am extremely pleased with the performance of the soap from Phoenix & Beau and even more pleased with the service from Kerry.

Sent from Mitsubishi Air-Con

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 10-13-2016, 11:40 PM
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I can't say enough good things about P&B. I really have concentrated on my shaving this year and believe I have reached a very high standard. P&B is an integral part. It reminds me of Mystic Waters in its chewing gum texture when loading and painting, to a Tabac like density once the water:soap ratio is optimum and exploding on the face. The resulting lather has no visible air bubbles. It is almost like having creamy mash potato on the face.

Having produced the LE soap Obsidian, with Kerry this year I am really excited about doing another, I know he has been banned from TSN, but is active on other boards. He has mentioned the possible release of hard colognes and aftershave balms etc. It is very warming to see P&B grow, given my opinion of other British soap manufacturers this product is a premium.

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 10-14-2016, 12:40 AM
#6
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I recognise that picture  Wink

Regarding the soap I have nothing but good things to say, scents are sometimes complex and not to everyone's taste but that can be easily worked on. I'll piggy back on what Avnish has said, the performance is what i enjoy most with this soap, it is very slick and has an incredible ability to incorporate plenty of water and still maintain a good level of consistency without the lather foaming up. The post shave is pretty darn good too.

I know there have been some issues with the curing, but to my knowledge this has been mostly resolved. Some of the soaps may appear half full but in reality they are correct weight (I have weighed mine when i got them) - The tubs are a little large and makes the soap seem half empty.

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 10-14-2016, 12:44 AM
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(10-13-2016, 11:22 PM)aerolord Wrote: To start off, I have to say that I have a very pleasing experience talking to Kerry from Phoenix & Beau and the excellent service from him.

I for one receive a bad batch from one of the vendor, without much hesitation, Kerry offered me a new tub to be send to Singapore(where I reside in), knowing how expensive the whole cost will be just to ship a tub over, I kindly postone the kind gesture and ask for a remedy that can be done at home.

He gave me some instruction of what can be done and I am going to try it out for a week. If the problem still persist I will have to kindly to have Kerry to send over a new tub for me.

Reason being, it's an excellent soap! I tried shaving with it today and it perform amazingly.

But sadly, the problem is still persisting.

In all, I am extremely pleased with the performance of the soap from Phoenix & Beau and even more pleased with the service from Kerry.

Sent from Mitsubishi Air-Con

What exactly is the problem you're experiencing? Maybe someone here can help.

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 10-14-2016, 02:29 AM
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Please remember, as stated in the original post, one is purchasing by weight not volume.  The container may or may not have the designated or promised amount of product but that can only be determined by weighing it.  If the weight is the designated amount then the 40-50% fill rate means a more concentrated, more soap-like product.  As for the other issues, well, let's hope that they are resolved as quickly as possible.

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 10-14-2016, 04:50 PM
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I found my containers, from a few months ago, at about 50% full. But the container weighs 135g (no lid), and I'm only buying 115g of soap, so I suspect it's on the money now. Unless someone has an empty P&B container they can weigh for me, I'm going to assume that it's a deceptive look and not a shortchanging.

My Albion has a strong scent, and it mellowed and blended better as I used some of it up. It's quite the awesome scent in fact. The larger container is nice to catch the foam that gets built up early on before it becomes lather. The shave is fine, not my favorite but no issues. Just average to me, like a TOBS or Proraso shave instead of more like Chiseled Face or Haslinger or B&M Latha. I also find it the softest soap in my inventory.

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 10-14-2016, 09:22 PM
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(10-14-2016, 02:29 AM)adelphos1 Wrote: Please remember, as stated in the original post, one is purchasing by weight not volume.  The container may or may not have the designated or promised amount of product but that can only be determined by weighing it.  If the weight is the designated amount then the 40-50% fill rate means a more concentrated, more soap-like product.  As for the other issues, well, let's hope that they are resolved as quickly as possible.

(10-14-2016, 04:50 PM)Gig103 Wrote: I found my containers, from a few months ago, at about 50% full. But the container weighs 135g (no lid), and I'm only buying 115g of soap, so I suspect it's on the money now. Unless someone has an empty P&B container they can weigh for me, I'm going to assume that it's a deceptive look and not a shortchanging.

My Albion has a strong scent, and it mellowed and blended better as I used some of it up. It's quite the awesome scent in fact. The larger container is nice to catch the foam that gets built up early on before it becomes lather. The shave is fine, not my favorite but no issues. Just average to me, like a TOBS or Proraso shave instead of more like Chiseled Face or Haslinger or B&M Latha. I also find it the softest soap in my inventory.

Look, no matter what the excuse is - I have bought literally several 100's of shaving soaps, and I have never seen this before.

If you make a shaving soap, and you sell it in a 200 gram container and place 115 gram of soap in the container, make sure you put an equal amount of soap in all your soaps, or it gives it a very unprofessional looking presentation, in my opinion. If you're unsure about the curing process, correct it. But do it in a professional way.

I bought 6 soaps in one and the same order, all soaps are (on paper, not in reality) 115 gram filled up in a 200 gram container, but some of the soap containers are 80% full and others are 40% full. 

Please don't tell me, this is an acceptable professional looking presentation !

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 10-14-2016, 09:55 PM
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(10-14-2016, 09:22 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Look, no matter what the excuse is - I have bought literally several 100's of shaving soaps, and I have never seen this before.

If you make a shaving soap, and you sell it in a 200 gram container and place 115 gram of soap in the container, make sure you put an equal amount of soap in all your soaps, or it gives it a very unprofessional looking presentation, in my opinion. If you're unsure about the curing process, correct it. But do it in a professional way.

I bought 6 soaps in one and the same order, all soaps are (on paper, not in reality) 115 gram filled up in a 200 gram container, but some of the soap containers are 80% full and others are 40% full. 

Please don't tell me, this is an acceptable professional looking presentation !

When people were getting ammonia scented soaps, or not getting the soap they paid for, those are acceptable complaints for sure! But when buying soap by weight, visual assessment isn't the correct criteria - it sounds like you would prefer if P&B sold soap by the mL, such as Razorock or Proraso. Have you tried Chiseled Face among your hundreds of shaving soaps? It is in an opaque container, but on the surface it is very similar to the Phoenix & Beau; hot poured, lumpy and uneven until you lather it a few times.

Did you know (I can't find the photo after about 5 minutes of searching) that Art of Shaving cream containers do not go all the way to the bottom of the exterior wall, to make it look like there's more inside than with TOBS?

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 10-14-2016, 10:34 PM
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(10-14-2016, 09:22 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Look, no matter what the excuse is - I have bought literally several 100's of shaving soaps, and I have never seen this before.
If you make a shaving soap, and you sell it in a 200 gram container and place 115 gram of soap in the container, make sure you put an equal amount of soap in all your soaps, or it gives it a very unprofessional looking presentation, in my opinion. If you're unsure about the curing process, correct it. But do it in a professional way.

I bought 6 soaps in one and the same order, all soaps are (on paper, not in reality) 115 gram filled up in a 200 gram container, but some of the soap containers are 80% full and others are 40% full. 

Please don't tell me, this is an acceptable professional looking presentation !

What do each of the pots weigh?

If some of the pots are 80% full and other only 40% full there'll be a significant difference in weight.

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 10-15-2016, 11:17 AM
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(10-14-2016, 09:55 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(10-14-2016, 09:22 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Look, no matter what the excuse is - I have bought literally several 100's of shaving soaps, and I have never seen this before.

If you make a shaving soap, and you sell it in a 200 gram container and place 115 gram of soap in the container, make sure you put an equal amount of soap in all your soaps, or it gives it a very unprofessional looking presentation, in my opinion. If you're unsure about the curing process, correct it. But do it in a professional way.

I bought 6 soaps in one and the same order, all soaps are (on paper, not in reality) 115 gram filled up in a 200 gram container, but some of the soap containers are 80% full and others are 40% full. 

Please don't tell me, this is an acceptable professional looking presentation !

When people were getting ammonia scented soaps, or not getting the soap they paid for, those are acceptable complaints for sure! But when buying soap by weight, visual assessment isn't the correct criteria - it sounds like you would prefer if P&B sold soap by the mL, such as Razorock or Proraso. Have you tried Chiseled Face among your hundreds of shaving soaps? It is in an opaque container, but on the surface it is very similar to the Phoenix & Beau; hot poured, lumpy and uneven until you lather it a few times.

Did you know (I can't find the photo after about 5 minutes of searching) that Art of Shaving cream containers do not go all the way to the bottom of the exterior wall, to make it look like there's more inside than with TOBS?

I can accept a certain degree of less than stellar presentation, especially when it comes to artisan soaps.

But I have my limits.

As said the P&B soap performance wise is awesome, and this is why I will continue buying the soap.

As soon as Kerry gets these curing problems solved - he has a fantastic performing shaving soap, that only needs a slightly more solid container, and he has a winner. The labels are great looking too. Love his scents.

I know very well the trick AOS makes with their shaving cream containers, to make them seem fuller - but their presentation is still spot on.
But AOS is not an artisan.

I wold rather comapre P&B to Wickham, CRSW, Tabula Rasa, Caties Bubbles, Saponificio Varesino, LPL and Barrister & Man. My 7 favourite artisan soap makers at the moment.

I have never received any tubs/containers from either of them, that were not filled within 5-10% to the same level inside the containers - and I own 26 B&M soaps, 16 Caties soaps, 18 CRSW soaps, 7 SV soaps, 8 LPL soaps, 5 Wickham soaps and 12 Tabula Rasa soaps.

What I ask is pretty basic, in my opinion.

When you sell a 115 gram shaving soap, make sure you are curing the soap for enough time, and make sure you are in control of water evaporation from the product, BEFORE you sell it to your vendors. 

When vendors receive their shaving soaps from P&B, they are eager to sell it to their customers, and it's just not good enough or professional enough to sell customers P&B 115 gram soaps, that comes filled 40% or less, when other similar P&B soaps are filled to the brim and weighs close to double of that. 

The excuse, that the customer should be happy to receive MORE than the 115 gram of soap just seem like an amateur approach, more so than an artisan approach, to soap making.

This is simply indicating the artisan has a lacking knowledge or lacking control of the correct curing and water evaporation of his own home made shaving soap. Do you disagree with this statement ?

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 10-15-2016, 11:18 AM
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(10-14-2016, 10:34 PM)P.B Wrote:
(10-14-2016, 09:22 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Look, no matter what the excuse is - I have bought literally several 100's of shaving soaps, and I have never seen this before.
If you make a shaving soap, and you sell it in a 200 gram container and place 115 gram of soap in the container, make sure you put an equal amount of soap in all your soaps, or it gives it a very unprofessional looking presentation, in my opinion. If you're unsure about the curing process, correct it. But do it in a professional way.

I bought 6 soaps in one and the same order, all soaps are (on paper, not in reality) 115 gram filled up in a 200 gram container, but some of the soap containers are 80% full and others are 40% full. 

Please don't tell me, this is an acceptable professional looking presentation !

What do each of the pots weigh?

If some of the pots are 80% full and other only 40% full there'll be a significant difference in weight.

The 80% filled containers weigh up to 50% more than 40% filled containers.

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 10-15-2016, 08:30 PM
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(10-15-2016, 11:18 AM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(10-14-2016, 10:34 PM)P.B Wrote:
(10-14-2016, 09:22 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Look, no matter what the excuse is - I have bought literally several 100's of shaving soaps, and I have never seen this before.
If you make a shaving soap, and you sell it in a 200 gram container and place 115 gram of soap in the container, make sure you put an equal amount of soap in all your soaps, or it gives it a very unprofessional looking presentation, in my opinion. If you're unsure about the curing process, correct it. But do it in a professional way.

I bought 6 soaps in one and the same order, all soaps are (on paper, not in reality) 115 gram filled up in a 200 gram container, but some of the soap containers are 80% full and others are 40% full. 

Please don't tell me, this is an acceptable professional looking presentation !

What do each of the pots weigh?

If some of the pots are 80% full and other only 40% full there'll be a significant difference in weight.

The 80% filled containers weigh up to 50% more than 40% filled containers.

So then, some people are getting the promised 115g, and others are getting 170g of soap? That's a pretty sweet bonus for those folks and doesn't seem sustainable for P&B!

For the money, B&M Latha is way better. Both Latha and Phoenix & Beau are about 3g per shave, which is cream level of usage, approx $0.30/shave -- non-artisans like D.R. Harris are a bargain at 1g per shave or $0.16. And then there is Palmolive, approx $0.01 per shave!

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 10-15-2016, 09:24 PM
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(10-15-2016, 08:30 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 11:18 AM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(10-14-2016, 10:34 PM)P.B Wrote: What do each of the pots weigh?

If some of the pots are 80% full and other only 40% full there'll be a significant difference in weight.

The 80% filled containers weigh up to 50% more than 40% filled containers.

So then, some people are getting the promised 115g, and others are getting 170g of soap? That's a pretty sweet bonus for those folks and doesn't seem sustainable for P&B!

For the money, B&M Latha is way better. Both Latha and Phoenix & Beau are about 3g per shave, which is cream level of usage, approx $0.30/shave -- non-artisans like D.R. Harris are a bargain at 1g per shave or $0.16. And then there is Palmolive, approx $0.01 per shave!

Unfortunately the weight is all over the place - one of my containers brand new with soap in it weighed in at 95 gram total including container (my first Citrus Royal)
Another one weighed in at 108 gram total (Solaris)

But I still think the Phoenix & beau is a fantastic shaving soap - and I will continue buying his soaps, and cross my fingers Kerry will get things sorted out eventually.
I really like his scents, his label design, the lids are great too - only the bottom part of the container could be more sturdy and then when the curing and water evaporation problems are sorted out, he has a winner soap.

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 10-15-2016, 11:52 PM
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(10-15-2016, 09:24 PM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 08:30 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 11:18 AM)CHSeifert Wrote: The 80% filled containers weigh up to 50% more than 40% filled containers.

So then, some people are getting the promised 115g, and others are getting 170g of soap? That's a pretty sweet bonus for those folks and doesn't seem sustainable for P&B!

For the money, B&M Latha is way better. Both Latha and Phoenix & Beau are about 3g per shave, which is cream level of usage, approx $0.30/shave -- non-artisans like D.R. Harris are a bargain at 1g per shave or $0.16. And then there is Palmolive, approx $0.01 per shave!

Unfortunately the weight is all over the place - one of my containers brand new with soap in it weighed in at 95 gram total including container (my first Citrus Royal)
Another one weighed in at 108 gram total (Solaris)

It's acknowledged that the earliest soaps were under-filled.  How consistent are the latter ones?

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 10-16-2016, 12:06 AM
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(10-15-2016, 11:52 PM)P.B Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 09:24 PM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 08:30 PM)Gig103 Wrote: So then, some people are getting the promised 115g, and others are getting 170g of soap? That's a pretty sweet bonus for those folks and doesn't seem sustainable for P&B!

For the money, B&M Latha is way better. Both Latha and Phoenix & Beau are about 3g per shave, which is cream level of usage, approx $0.30/shave -- non-artisans like D.R. Harris are a bargain at 1g per shave or $0.16. And then there is Palmolive, approx $0.01 per shave!

Unfortunately the weight is all over the place - one of my containers brand new with soap in it weighed in at 95 gram total including container (my first Citrus Royal)
Another one weighed in at 108 gram total (Solaris)

It's acknowledged that the earliest soaps were under-filled.  How consistent are the latter ones?
That's what I'm trying to get at. If Kerry has fixed that, then we should close the thread and move on.

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 10-16-2016, 12:35 AM
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(10-16-2016, 12:06 AM)Gig103 Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 11:52 PM)P.B Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 09:24 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Unfortunately the weight is all over the place - one of my containers brand new with soap in it weighed in at 95 gram total including container (my first Citrus Royal)
Another one weighed in at 108 gram total (Solaris)

It's acknowledged that the earliest soaps were under-filled.  How consistent are the latter ones?
That's what I'm trying to get at. If Kerry has fixed that, then we should close the thread and move on.

Maybe I'm missing something but isn't Claus reporting that the newer soaps are under/ inconsistanly filled too and so it's not been fixed.

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 10-16-2016, 12:41 AM
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I had a Solaris that was very under filled and had the ammonia smell. I did contact p&b who advised leaving the lid off. The smell went but then came back. The performance wasn't anything to write home about so I ended up giving it away.


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