10-22-2016, 02:58 PM
#1
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Hey Coffee Geeks [Image: coffee-drinker-smiley-emoticon.gif]

I have experienced a good deal with different brands of coffee beans here in 2016.

Why is it, that some certain coffee beans just seem to be so oily and just make a mess, when you are grinding them, while with others you can hardly see you have grinded them.

Has it do with how fresh they are ?
The really oily beans makes a real mess on the kitchen table and in my grinder, just wonder why that it is so  Huh

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 10-22-2016, 03:20 PM
#2
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Visibly oily beans indicate excessively high temperature when roasting, perhaps the most frequent roasting defect. 
Some beans contain more oils than others (not visible) and that can be a good thing, taste-wise.

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 10-22-2016, 03:25 PM
#3
  • Barrylu
  • Senior Member
  • Portland OR
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(10-22-2016, 02:58 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Hey Coffee Geeks [Image: coffee-drinker-smiley-emoticon.gif]

I have experienced a good deal with different brands of coffee beans here in 2016.

Why is it, that some certain coffee beans just seem to be so oily and just make a mess, when you are grinding them, while with others you can hardly see you have grinded them.

Has it do with how fresh they are ?
The really oily beans makes a real mess on the kitchen table and in my grinder, just wonder why that it is so  Huh

A coffee bean is essentially mostly cellulose. Suspended in the cellulose are sugars and oil. The coffee taste is dependent upon the trapped sugars and oils being released from the cellulose. Roasting the beans releases the sugar and oils. If one roasts the beans, at too low a temperature, the beans are basically baked and the resulting coffee is week and  tasteless. This result is because the sugars and oils remain trapped in the cellulose. Conversely, If the beans are roasted at too high a temperature the cellulose breaks down too quickly , the sugars caramelize and burn, finally the oils  rush to the surface of the bean and become rancid. Finally, if the roasted coffee is allowed to sit too long and get stale. the oils rise to the surface of the bean and become rancid. The best time to grind and brew coffee depends upon the moisture content and type of bean that is roasted. Usually it takes 2 to 3 days after roasting for the sugars and oils to perfuse through the bean. If you drink the coffee before that time it will taste green. That is, it will taste more like plant matter than coffee. If the roasted coffee is allowed to stand too long after the oils and sugars are released the oils rise to the surface and become rancid. The later condition is what you experience. Either the coffee was allowed to stand too long after roasting and has spoiled or the coffee was roasted too hot and too long. In either case the coffee is rendered undrinkable.

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 10-22-2016, 03:25 PM
#4
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It is due to the length/depth of roast. Coffee goes thru several stages when roasting and coffee beans that are oily have been taken past "second crack" into what is typically a dark roast. First crack is the physical expansion of the coffee seed as water and carbon dioxide split and CO2 outgassing starts. Second Crack is the physical fracturing of the celllose matrix of the coffee. The oil isn't necessarily apparent when first roasted but comes to the surface of the beans over the course of several days. I'm not normally a fan of beans that are taken well past second crack. With coffee at this stage you are getting more of the flavor due to the level of roasting versus the quality of the coffee. Thus some of us refer to a certain coffee purveyor as Charbucks because they often do roasts quite a bit past second crack.

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 10-22-2016, 03:28 PM
#5
  • Giorgio
  • Senior Member
  • Pennsylvania, US
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In my experience this is due to how dark the roast is. A dark roast (beyond second crack if you are familiar with the roasting process) causes the beans to release oils which IMO contributes to what you are calling messy beans.

Most beans are actually not supposed to be roasted that dark. A coffee bean roasted beyond what many recognize as "medium" roast will begin to deteriorate the unique flavors of the bean itself, and the flavor will become dominated by the roasting process/profile. At this stage "good" single origin coffee will lose a lot of the nuisances that particular region/farm/processing method provide. In today's commercial world, basically crap coffee is dark roasted to hide how bad it is -- which is why it is so common and many swear by it.

Granted there are plenty of beans I enjoy on the darker side (for example Sumatra), but overall I cringe at most dark roasted coffee.

Sorry for the tangent, but I believe I know exactly what you are talking about and I am confident at the very least the oils are what contribute to that mess. The oils rub off on everything - counter, scoop, grinder. Then add oily coffee grounds to that and it is a definite mess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 10-22-2016, 03:34 PM
#6
  • Barrylu
  • Senior Member
  • Portland OR
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In my house we refer to Starbucks as Charbucks and Folgers as the "F" word.
Over roasting coffee destroys the high tone flavors eg citrus and spice. What are left are the deep tones Chocolate and cocoa. The result is that the over roasted  coffee has no nuances and consistently tastes the same and uniform. That is why when you buy commercial coffee it always tastes the same pound after pound.The coffee losses all its high and varied tones. In addition ,by over roasting cheaper beans and varietals can be used in the roast.

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 10-22-2016, 03:41 PM
#7
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Thanks for your explanation guys.

You know far more than I will ever do about coffee and beans.

I received 4 of these 500 gram as gifts from a friend, who bought it at a coffee house.

I may throw them out. I can't read when they were roasted either. Is it just a basic supermarket coffee ?

[Image: qualita_oro_grain_scheda.jpg]

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 10-22-2016, 04:13 PM
#8
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Claus,  

There have been some great in depth explanations.  In summary, beans that have significant oil on them have been over cooked, or over roasted in this case.

Roasting to the point of significant oil will usually damage the taste profile.  

In the US there are many roasters, though you are in Denmark.  The Italian company Illy is widely known for creating consistently good coffee.  They are global, so I would think you can get their beans.  

I would imagine there are many good roasters in Europe.  The kind I refer to are small businesses.  Using Google, you should be able to find some that produce great coffee.  

You also have to be careful as there are many folks roasting coffee who don't know what they are doing.

I've been roasting my own coffee for about three years.

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 10-22-2016, 04:37 PM
#9
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Claus,

I do believe that Lavazza is a "basic supermarket coffee". It is popular with my Italian friends here in the USA, but I don't know if it is consumed in Italy.

Everyone else,

I appreciate the lesson in roasting today! I enjoy a good cup of coffee but, like many foods, I don't prepare it myself.

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 10-22-2016, 04:43 PM
#10
  • Giorgio
  • Senior Member
  • Pennsylvania, US
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(10-22-2016, 03:41 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Thanks for your explanation guys.

You know far more than I will ever do about coffee and beans.

I received 4 of these 500 gram as gifts from a friend, who bought it at a coffee house.

I may throw them out. I can't read when they were roasted either. Is it just a basic supermarket coffee ?


Lavazza is a commercial roaster, with even a big presence in the US. Also, mostly known for their espresso coffee (as in, dark roast). While the beans they use may start off as "ok" quality in best case scenario, the fact that they are over roasted means that it doesn't really matter because you are not tasting the beans. Couple that with the fact that more than likely you are not grinding those beans within 14 days of the roast, and it is almost guaranteed that you are drinking stale coffee.

That being said, I would tell you use them for now, but go find yourself a local roaster that knows what they are doing and then enjoy discovering what coffee should taste like Biggrin

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 10-22-2016, 04:53 PM
#11
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(10-22-2016, 04:43 PM)Giorgio Wrote:
(10-22-2016, 03:41 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Thanks for your explanation guys.

You know far more than I will ever do about coffee and beans.

I received 4 of these 500 gram as gifts from a friend, who bought it at a coffee house.

I may throw them out. I can't read when they were roasted either. Is it just a basic supermarket coffee ?


Lavazza is a commercial roaster, with even a big presence in the US. Also, mostly known for their espresso coffee (as in, dark roast). While the beans they use may start off as "ok" quality in best case scenario, the fact that they are over roasted means that it doesn't really matter because you are not tasting the beans. Couple that with the fact that more than likely you are not grinding those beans within 14 days of the roast, and it is almost guaranteed that you are drinking stale coffee.

That being said, I would tell you use them for now, but go find yourself a local roaster that knows what they are doing and then enjoy discovering what coffee should taste like Biggrin

Yeahhhh....finding a local roster, that knows what they are doing = my problem !

I have tried 3-4 coffe houses in the Coepnhagen area, and for the price I pay extra for their beans, I often am quite disappointed. Sort of like paying extra for an artisan made shaving soap or an Xpec priced cream (I think Xpec is great BTW), but then when you use it, it really is not better than your standard Speick, La Toja and Proraso.

I have tried purchasing from danish online coffe shops, where they sell coffee beans, and I have paid a 3-4 times overprice for most of these online shops, and I have come away quite disappointed most of the times.

I actually enjoy and like some of the better higher priced super market whole bean coffee brands just as much to be honest, and didn't find it was worth the extra price at all.

I have tried so many different coffee brands from the small shops, that I can't even remember. And they are not worth the money they charge.
Even though they state when they have rosted the coffee, how do I know if they ar good at it, and how do I know if I enjoy that particular mix of beans ?

I really like my luxury stuff, but when it comes to coffee beans, I have yet to be impressed with the artisan like coffe shops and their rosted coffee beans.
I use a grinder and a moccamaster coffe machine to make my coffee every day.

I'm in the dark here.......

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 10-22-2016, 08:04 PM
#12
  • Barrylu
  • Senior Member
  • Portland OR
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Claus I don't know what may be available in Denmark. Have you thought about learning to home roast. I have been homeroasting for the past 15 years. It is a very rewarding hobby. Very similar to wet shaving. If you need help getting started PM me. Barry

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 10-23-2016, 10:03 AM
#13
  • Giorgio
  • Senior Member
  • Pennsylvania, US
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(10-22-2016, 04:53 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Yeahhhh....finding a local roster, that knows what they are doing = my problem !

I have tried 3-4 coffe houses in the Coepnhagen area, and for the price I pay extra for their beans, I often am quite disappointed. Sort of like paying extra for an artisan made shaving soap or an Xpec priced cream (I think Xpec is great BTW), but then when you use it, it really is not better than your standard Speick, La Toja and Proraso.

I have tried purchasing from danish online coffe shops, where they sell coffee beans, and I have paid a 3-4 times overprice for most of these online shops, and I have come away quite disappointed most of the times.

I actually enjoy and like some of the better higher priced super market whole bean coffee brands just as much to be honest, and didn't find it was worth the extra price at all.

I have tried so many different coffee brands from the small shops, that I can't even remember. And they are not worth the money they charge.
Even though they state when they have rosted the coffee, how do I know if they ar good at it, and how do I know if I enjoy that particular mix of beans ?

I really like my luxury stuff, but when it comes to coffee beans, I have yet to be impressed with the artisan like coffe shops and their rosted coffee beans.
I use a grinder and a moccamaster coffe machine to make my coffee every day.

I'm in the dark here.......


I know what you mean Claus and there is no right answer.  If at this time you cannot assign that much benefit to coffee from a local small roaster vs some of the commercial brands you drink, then stick with what appeals to your personal taste--nothing wrong with commercial coffee if you like it and enjoy it  Biggrin

It took me years until I could tell the difference and actually cared to be very selective about the coffee I drink.  All I can suggest is trying as much variety as you can and seeing what appeals to you.  I understand what you mean when comparing artisan and commercial coffee--if they both taste very similar to you, why bother paying 2-5 times as much?  There are two key things that you will likely get with an artisan that would be extremely hard to find in a commercial roaster:  Freshness and bean quality.  Artisans typically roast smaller batches, and are (usually) more discerning when it comes to bean quality--not to mention they are actually willing to go out and pay the market price for, for example, Haraz beans from Yemen or Ethiopian YirgaCheffe, whereas rarely will a commercial roaster do that, let alone be able to access the batch sizes they need.  Also, you ideally want to drink coffee within 2-3 weeks after roasting for the best flavor before it breaks down too much.  It is very difficult to find commercial coffee that fresh.  By the time it gets to the shelf store, probably a few months have gone by at the very least.  

None of that really matters though if you don't see the value in these differences.  Stick to what you like, try different varieties as often as you can, and when one comes up that you really like make sure to take note of it as it will begin a good baseline for honing in on your taste preferences.  Also, perhaps experiment with different brew methods as well--sounds like you already have a solid set up with the Moccamaster, but I would also add in a Aeropress and something like a Clever coffee dripper as they are both cheap and can add to the coffee experience when you feel like changing it up.  

I would imagine coffee is like your fragrances---it took you time to hone in and develop the nose you have and the experience to break down a scent into its components and then evaluate how they all work together.  I'm sure it took you years, along with commitment to get to where you are--coffee is very similar.  There are a TON of factors that can go into just making a simple beverage to consume.  Each coffee afficionado will have their own set of preferences and rules they swear by, just like our whole YMMV, but at the end of the day we all strive to enjoy our coffee a little more than last time.

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 10-23-2016, 04:11 PM
#14
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Deleted, and I feel better for it.

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 10-23-2016, 04:46 PM
#15
  • SCOV
  • Member
  • Minnesota
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As stated above, dark roasts beans are normally more "oily than lighter roasts.  My older burr grinder does not like oily beans which unfortunately limits my bean choices.  My first question at my local coffee roaster when looking at new beans is "are the beans oily".   

Nice link from DudeAbides - may need to try Coffee Collective in Copenhagen via the net.

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 10-24-2016, 01:55 PM
#16
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Thanks for your input, guys !!

Will look into that and search around.

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated  Thumbup

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