12-29-2016, 05:54 PM
#1
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I have only been wet shaving for a month or so. I bought some CRSW Select citrus.

I read all these posts about how great this soap is and how it feel slick and awesome. I thought to myself "how different can soap be?!" After all, I have some other brands and they all feel about the same.

This CRSW went on so slick, felt so creamy and luxurious. It feels so different than my other soaps. I did use  synthetic Razorock Plisoft for the first time instead of my shavemac. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. But I was amazed at how different it felt and how much better it felt as far as the shave experience

I come from a world where before wet shavings, I used very expensive and exlusive facial products. In fact, I have one for sale in the BST forum. I am used to the top concern being what is left in your skin (botanical extracts) and what is not (cleansers wash away completely).

With this tallow and lanolin based CRSW, it doesn't seem to wash off completely. Face still feels slick. Not in a horrible way, but it seems like people that use shave soaps are more concerned with scents and how it feels for the shave and I never hear about people commenting on the residue it leaves and how good or bad it is for your skin? I wonder if I will break out more? I haven't yet. But am surprised this is  aspect is not discussed more in reviews. Its even more surprising that most skin care experts would advise not putting alchohol on your face as it is too drying, yet the use of aftershave proliferates.

Even with normal soap, experts say not to use it on your face. They say to use a facial soap. I am not sure if shaving soap is made with the same facial soap properties? If so, why is it rarely mentioned that it has those ingredients and does not have the ingredients that are not good for your facial skin?

It would seem that the shaving experience should also be a subset of total face skin care, but they seem a bit disjointed. Or is it just me? After all I am new with maybe a newbie perspective.

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 12-29-2016, 06:10 PM
#2
  • Nero
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Keep questioning. I like your mentality.

I used another soap recently that is made with lanolin (which I NEVER do) and it left a waxy film on my face for 2-3 days. I'm still dealing with what seems to be an allergy to it, and I haven't used it for 11 days. My skin has blotchy red spots for no reason in spots I never get blotchy red spots. That's why I say lanolin hates me. I'm not the only one.

As far as alcohol on the face, I also think it's a bad idea. Then people use balms and this and that to make it feel moisturizing. Seems like nonsense to me. But that's just my O.

I just use soaps that work, and forget the post-shave products. They're not necessary (clearly).

Side A, two nights ago:
[Image: 596d0053d3afdb142457a64b48f1e15f.jpg]

Side B, last night:
[Image: e7fa3c8eb0698ad77e2bbe633865c9f5.jpg]

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 12-29-2016, 07:07 PM
#3
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I have not broken out yet, but I wonder what could happen on 10 uses. I really love the way the shave feels, but maybe I am the stupid guy from being brainwashed into thinking all these skin care products I have been using up until I got into wet shaving are the way to go when the best thing is to smear animal fat in your skin and rinse it off? Seems counter intuitive. Compare it to the ingredients and the way they describe the OM4 shave emulsion I have for sale in the soap stickie in BST (it's offered for trade and wish some die hard soap user would use it and report back on the difference they feel in this thread and if they still will go back to shaving soaps after using it) Cleary they market it as a heathy skin treatment. I was giving it up because I thought soaps would replace it, but now I am not sure. I still have some I use and the difference is there is no audible noise when I shave with the OM4 emulsion like there is with shaving soap. It rinses completely off as well

I have noticed that wet shavers care about the most minute details. They care about looking good, performance, ever detail of how something is made. From grade of stainless, to how a handle is machines, to extracts in scents. It just surprises me that more discussion and reviews do not cover actual skin care and actually praise products that seem bad for your skin (alcohol after shaves). As far as balms, I use Yonka toner and OM4 serum plus OM4 sunscreen facial lotion. These three products cost about $120 bucks. If a 20 dollar aftershave balm has the same benefits, I will be delightfully surprised.

My CSRW definitely leaves as residue. I don't mind it if nothing bad happens to my skin. Maybe it's like soap and lotion all in one?

I am ignorant and want to learn about this. Maybe some soap manufactures that also understand skin care could chime in?

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 12-29-2016, 07:41 PM
#4
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Don't expect a lot of replies. This topic seems to hurt feelings. Sad. I expect the thread to be on Page 2 by morning (USA).

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 12-29-2016, 07:47 PM
#5
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(12-29-2016, 07:41 PM)Nero Wrote: Don't expect a lot of replies. This topic seems to hurt feelings. Sad.

That certainly is not my intent. I clearly state how ignorant I am. I genuinely want to learn and also want to take care of my skin. Already seem to have taken the first step with wet shaving and not yanking hairs out to cut and getting ingrown hairs and bumps like I used to with my cartridge razor

And I hope people read that I was amazed at how great I thought CSRW soap worked for shaving and was better than the rest of my soaps

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 12-29-2016, 08:10 PM
#6
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I think you'd be surprised how many still use cartridge too, btw. (Just saying, not criticizing).

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 12-29-2016, 08:53 PM
#7
  • pbrmhl
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I'll chime in. I'm not offended even though my perspective is quite different. Different perspectives make the world go round!

My old hide is not sensitive to any face product I've ever used. No shaving cream or soap has ever given me any problem, and after my cold water post-shave rinse, I've never felt any sort of residue. I never used any aftershave splash or balm until I started this non-cart, non-goo journey 30 some months ago. I've tried a balm a couple of times, but it makes my face feel filmy. Every day now, I splash alcohol-based aftershaves liberally, and have never had healthier skin. Everyone's different. Good luck in your journey!

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 12-29-2016, 09:59 PM
#8
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Maybe we don't frequent the same sites but I've seen post-shave feel discussed plenty in soap reviews and many people are very aware of the fact that soaps leave residue like tallow and lanolin. In fact, that's exactly why people opt for certain soaps with those ingredients. They are just animal fats and tallow has been a key ingredient in soaps for countless years. I'm no expert but unless you have an allergy to these ingredients, they aren't going to do any damage to your skin.

I don't intentionally use any products with animal ingredients in them, but I still gravitate towards certain soaps due to the residue that they leave behind. I've found that some soaps with shea butter tend to have conditioning properties and they leave my skin feeling softer and a bit less dry. I have indeed questioned the health repercussions of leaving shea butter on my skin but it is a common ingredient in cosmetics and I haven't read of any cases of it doing harm to anyone.

As for alcohol splashes, some men have spent their entire lives applying it after every single shave without any detrimental effects. When you shave, you make tiny cuts (or large ones) all over your face and alcohol helps to reduce the risk of infection, although it is probably negligible for most of us. I'm not crazy about alcohol based aftershaves for the same reasons that you pointed out - they totally dry out my skin and moreover, I don't feel like they have any soothing or healing properties. Sometimes I use splashes because I have yet to find a balm that works for me, but I always follow up with lotion or cream.

I think that the cosmetics industry consists of some knowledgeable people with good intentions but there are also hacks spouting pseudoscience in order to sell you products that you don't really need. I highly doubt that you need a special soap for your face. Soap has one function: it's an emulsifier and its job is envelop oils so that the resultant product can be carried away by water. Maybe some soaps are loaded with conditioners in order to prevent your skin from overproducing oils after being totally dried out but I have no reason to believe that plain old soap would cause issues for most of us. I agree with your overall sentiment that it's good to ask questions and it's especially important to be health conscious. You should always know what you're putting in and on your body and if you start noticing any adverse effects from a certain product, then stop using it and spread the word.

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 12-29-2016, 10:12 PM
#9
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Just to clarify. My skin concerns on my face are dry skin, acne, or things that would make my facial skin not look that great

I am NOT concerned with anything serious with any of these soaps such as : cancer, skin falling off, pain, or anything serious like that. My reference to detrimental was more about aesthetic issues or things that could lead to those issues

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 12-29-2016, 11:25 PM
#10
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Disclaimer:  I'm a soapmaker who makes tallow based shaving soap and vegetarian/vegan bath/facial soap. When I started making soap I used animal fat in all of my soap but when I moved back to the U.S. I discovered that the people who live in my area wanted plant oil based bath soaps, but I don't believe that one is necessarily superior to the other.


Using a soap made with tallow is not the same thing as "smearing animal fat on your skin and rinsing it off", because although soap is made from fat, soap is soap and fat is...fat.  However, fats are made up of different combinations of fatty acids and depending on the types of fats/oils used to make the soap, the percentage of superfat left in the soap, and additives used, the "skin feel" qualities can be noticeably or subtly different in different soaps. Fragrance and performance are other considerations and are pretty subjective, as we know. Shaving soap has specific requirements for it to be effective for shaving and a good face soap might be made of oils that don't work for a shaving soap.

Aftershaves containing alcohol or witch hazel extract (which includes alcohol as a preservative) serve to prevent infection that might be caused by nicks or micro-abrasions, but the downside is that alcohol is drying.  That's why a lot of aftershaves also contain glycerin, sodium lactate, or other moisturizing ingredients.  People with oilier skin might not be bothered by the alcohol, someone with dry skin or delicate skin might find it to be too much for them.  Balms and lotions are basically water, oils or silicones, pH modifiers, emulsifiers, preservatives, fragrances and other ingredients that might enhance the skin feel or have "label appeal".  A simpler, more "natural" approach to moisturizing the skin is to use a little oil or shea butter instead of a lotion.  It's individual and what works for one person might not work for everyone.

I don't know where the idea came from that soap can't be used to wash the face.  Up until fairly recent times, there were no detergents, no "dermatologically tested" claims for simple cleansers.  Imho, it's a fashion, a sales device and little else.  Some people with medical conditions need specific prescription cleansers but most of us can use soap with no problem.

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 12-29-2016, 11:49 PM
#11
  • I.P.
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I believe that somethings can't and won't walk side by side. Wet shaving as a concept and clinical (dermatologic) research is one. Alas don't forget that they are seperated by decades.

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 12-30-2016, 12:05 AM
#12
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After all these years, if there were such problems with shaving soaps causing issues we might still all be members of this forum but the forum would have a different name. Something along the lines of  'The Canned Goo Nook'. We would be commenting on how ignorant we were back in the days of using so called quality shave soap. Our facial skin was prone to constant breakouts, rashes, acne from the use of this horrible thing. But now we have seen the light and might even be saving some money using these wonderful detergent based, chemical laden cans of foam! Hallelujah!

But seriously, after reading all the positive reviews dating back years, if there was an issue, I bet you would have heard about it. Personally my facial skin has never looked or felt better and I love using shave soap that is known for its post shave feel like MW, CRSW, Mikes, etc. Pannacrema even goes so far as to tell you NOT to rinse their shave soap off your face, but rub it in as a post shave lotion. Everyone's skin is different, some like soaps such as MdC which is far to drying for me while others like the more moisturizing soaps.

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 12-30-2016, 12:25 AM
#13
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I think this topic gets little airtime because most people, most of the time, don't have issues with the shave soaps they use frequently. I'm of the opinion that shaving soaps, soaps made specifically for daily use on your face, would instantly stand out if they caused adverse reactions. Like another commenter, my face has never looked better. My reaction is a very positive one,

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 12-30-2016, 01:24 AM
#14
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I am under the impression that most artisan shaving soaps are actually loaded with stuff that are good for the skin. I even use the left over lather as a complete facial wash while washing the brush thoroughly. Fortunately I don't have any issues with lanolin or tallow.

I even went out of my way to purchase a balm that contains Bison tallow because to my mind I think it's healthy for the skin.

I refrain from using alcohol based splashes, and use them sparingly, but I use balms most of the time even though I already have an oily skin to begin with. I just don't add a lot, otherwise it would look pretty bad.

Not an expert as well, and would love to read more insights about your question.

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 12-30-2016, 02:11 AM
#15
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Highly interesting thread. I posted a somewhat similar thread months ago: Are fragrances in shaving soaps/creams safe for your skin/health ESPECIALLY in the longer but also in the shorter run.
It got some debate going, but most people ignored the thread.

This is (somewhat close to) like going to a cigar forum and posting a thread on how dangerous smoking is for your health.

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 12-30-2016, 05:53 AM
#16
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For this and other reasons I don't care for "residual slickness".

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 12-30-2016, 06:07 AM
#17
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(12-29-2016, 09:59 PM)Demidog Wrote: Maybe we don't frequent the same sites but I've seen post-shave feel discussed plenty in soap reviews and many people are very aware of the fact that soaps leave residue like tallow and lanolin.

I agree. But most people (myself included) just say "performance and post-shave were great"

Well, what does that mean?

So, that's why I started this thread (http://shavenook.com/showthread.php?tid=45891), and built the list with all your help, so people could be more specific in their descriptions.

Performance is multi-faceted, as the thread I posted indicates.

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 12-30-2016, 07:03 AM
#18
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(12-29-2016, 05:54 PM)Diamond Dog Wrote: I'll chime in on these two points: 

"With this tallow and lanolin based CRSW, it doesn't seem to wash off completely. Face still feels slick. Not in a horrible way, but it seems like people that use shave soaps are more concerned with scents and how it feels for the shave and I never hear about people commenting on the residue it leaves and how good or bad it is for your skin? I wonder if I will break out more? I haven't yet. But am surprised this is  aspect is not discussed more in reviews."

In my experience, tallow and lanolin don't inherently leave a film on your skin. I've used shaving soaps that contain both of those ingredients - Haslinger Sheep's Milk and Wilkinson stick to name two - and neither leave any residue. I think as Michelle from Mystic Waters stated, that a residue or a soap's "skincare" properties probably have more to do with the superfat content of whatever conditioning fats the soap contains. So if there's a lot of superfatted shea or kokum butter or olive oil (or tallow) etc, you may feel those oils leaving a residue on your face unless you wash it off with a cleanser after your shave. As an aside here - even if the soap contained actual superfatted tallow (i.e. beef fat that's not saponified) that's probably pretty good for your skin. I have a friend who moisturizes with an unsaponified whipped tallow product whose complexion is fantastic.


"Even with normal soap, experts say not to use it on your face. They say to use a facial soap. I am not sure if shaving soap is made with the same facial soap properties? If so, why is it rarely mentioned that it has those ingredients and does not have the ingredients that are not good for your facial skin?"


If it's the real deal (i.e. saponified fats as opposed to detergents), soap is soap is soap. What makes a face soap different than a bath soap is how it's been formulated - both could theoretically contain identical ingredients in different concentrations. A facial soap may use less cleansing fats and more emollient fats (less coconut or palm kernel oil and more shea butter or olive oil for example) as well as a higher superfat content. The increased superfat content helps offset the drying effects of the cleansing oils. A facial soap may use exfoliants but they may be gentler than the exfoliants used in a bath soap. A shaving soap should more closely resemble a facial soap in terms of its mildness than a bath soap. You don't want your shaving soap to be particularly cleansing - you want it to be protective. The ingredients in many shaving soaps can be used as a facial formula, minus the stearic acid, which is really there for hardness and stability of the lather.

Hope this helps.

Peter

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 12-30-2016, 10:35 PM
#19
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I've noticed a distinctly different result between vegan and tallow soaps and how they leave my face feeling after shaving.

I started with vegans - TOBS and Catie's most notably and loved both products.  But then I got some B & M and was shocked at the difference, not only in slickness during the shave, but as noted above, how soft it made my skin feel afterwards and even throughout the day.

I've since switched to Tabac and CRSW and personally consider them even better performers than B & M.

Despite all the accolades, I was a little leery though of CRSW because it contains castor oil, which is known to cause skin irritation in some people.  Months back I tried my hand at making my own pre-shave oil and one of the [many] recipes I had included castor oil.  Took a full 2 days for the redness and irritation to disappear.

Fortunately, I've not had that experience with CRSW - likely because whatever causes the irritation in the oil alone is either tempered or eliminated altogether in the process of making the soap.  So that fear is gone.

But whether I use a vegan or tallow soap, I still finish my shave with Trumpers skin food - which not only makes my face feel that much better but doesn't leave my face oily (or dry for that matter either) but supremely soothed.  And interestingly, the skin food doesn't seem to detract in any way from the after effects of the tallow soaps.  Leaves my skin just as, if not more soft than without.

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 12-30-2016, 11:08 PM
#20
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Interesting that Niemander had made the comment referring to some people having reactions to Castor Seed Oil. I know just about anyone could have a reaction to just about any and every oil, but, Castor Seed oil is not one I hear coming up. Usually, I would assume the nut oils (Almond, Macadamia, Hazelnut, Peanut) and then others ingredients like coconut oil or lanolin.

It goes to show that if you want to be in wet shaving, it does require a bit of cross checking different products and looking at possible ingredient that your skin reacts to negatively or positively.

Thanks to the start of this thread and the comments that have been posted.

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