02-08-2017, 06:56 AM
#1
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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I have been a big fan of the M7 handle as soon as I set my eyes on one.
 
First acquisition was a GYLE M7 with a Super 3 Band knot that was supposed to resemble “Best” hair grade of the old Alex Simpson days. This was an incredible brush. However, the hair was not up to my desired softness, so I let her go after two years (was a mistake!).

[Image: zFhh4CB.jpg]
 
But my desire for M7 handles could no longer be suppressed. When the first M7 in 2 Band appeared I was hooked and had to get one. The “ivory fleck” M7 pictured below (from 2012) features a 25/52mm knot of incredibly soft 2 Band hair of that famous batch. It was the second or third Simpson 2 Band brush that I had acquired and from there was no stopping: I had to get every single Simpson handle in that 2 band hair that I could get my hands on! Once Simpson stopped making custom 2 Band brushes, I resorted to BST to get my “fix”.

[Image: mY7S0LN.jpg]
 
But back to the M7s: as I was so fond of the handle design, I acquired “7s” from various artisans: Lee Sabini’s L7, Rudy Vey’s R7, Bob Quinn’s E7, you name it!! All great handles, but not the same as the M7 after all.


[Image: ziiC5Fj.jpg]

 
I had to get another M7. As the 2 Band hair with “unicorn” attributes was no longer available (what is sold these days as “SILVERTiP” is not the same), I had to acquire a Manchurian M7.
 
My relationship with Simpson Manchurian hair grade is complicated. Expensive, and, at least, in the early batches, way too scrubby or even scritchy for my taste. I bought about a dozen Manchurian “LEs” and sold all but three (two of those from 2016).
 
So. Let’s get to it then:
M7 – ivory fleck 2 Band (2012), 25/52mm Bulb vs
M7 – ivory Manchurian (2015), 24/48mm Fan
First observation: both knots are fuller than what you typically see these days: M7s are now advertised on Simpson’s webpage with a spec of 22mm (and a loft of 52mm, but we know that can vary).

[Image: thEtwPg.jpg]
 
2 Band:
Silky soft, medium dense, great flow through, kissing your face. Individual hairs are very fine, i.e should not be abused with abrasive motion. A great brush in a great handle. Given the loft of 52mm the knot has a lot of flex, while not being “floppy”.

[Image: k5KgBuU.jpg]
 
Manchurian:
A much stiffer knot with coarser hair. A much more scrubby experience. The shorter loft of course adds to this experience. If used with circular motion a slight scritch can be felt.
 
[Image: Q2M1bm5.jpg]

Different to my assessment regarding the 58s, where I compared a 2012 58 2 Band vs a 2016 Manchurian, I clearly prefer the 2 Band M7 over the Manchurian. Current Manchurian seems a softer batch. Also, I have learnt from experience that Manchurians are better suited with a loft of 50+ mm.
 
Enjoy your shaves, Gentlemen!

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 02-08-2017, 07:30 AM
#2
  • NJDJ
  • Member
  • New Jersey
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Thanks for yhe write up on both this and the 58.  Very well done!

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 02-08-2017, 11:44 AM
#3
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Nice stuff.

I enjoyed reading it.

I noticed the M7 has changed to a smaller knot as well. Too bad. The handle is suited so well for a 26mm knot. 22mm almost sounds like a short change. 

Does your 2 band bulb M7 have a glue bump? My Polo 8 does and I really didn't expect it to have one coming from Simpsons.

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 02-08-2017, 11:57 AM
#4
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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(02-08-2017, 11:44 AM)bakerbarber Wrote: Does your 2 band bulb M7 have a glue bump? My Polo 8 does and I really didn't expect it to have one coming from Simpsons.

No, the 2 Band has no glue bump. The occasional Simpson brush comes with it. However, I have seen it more with Manchurian than with other grades. A glue bump is not a bad thing by itself, but it shortens the effective free loft. Hence, you thought you acquired a 24/50mm and then it turns out to be 24/46mm free loft - that will change substantially how the brush feels.

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 02-08-2017, 12:05 PM
#5
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Signs011

Thanks.


Beautiful collection.

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 02-08-2017, 12:19 PM
#6
  • Rufus
  • Senior Member
  • Greater Toronto Area
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(02-08-2017, 11:57 AM)German Wrote:
(02-08-2017, 11:44 AM)bakerbarber Wrote: Does your 2 band bulb M7 have a glue bump? My Polo 8 does and I really didn't expect it to have one coming from Simpsons.

No, the 2 Band has no glue bump. The occasional Simpson brush comes with it. However, I have seen it more with Manchurian than with other grades. A glue bump is not a bad thing by itself, but it shortens the effective free loft. Hence, you thought you acquired a 24/50mm and then it turns out to be 24/46mm free loft - that will change substantially how the brush feels.

My Simpson M6 Manchurian has a noticeable glue-bump.  When compared with my Simpson QE II Jubilee Manchurian, which has the same size knot as the M6, but without a glue-bump the difference in face-feel is immediately apparent.  The Jubilee is soft and pliable without being floppy whereas the M6 is quite stiff in comparison.  Thus, for those who like backbone the glue-bump would be welcome, but it's not for me.

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 02-08-2017, 06:20 PM
#7
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Great Part 2 with lots of good info in the rest of the thread. Thanks!

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 02-08-2017, 07:34 PM
#8
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Bayside, NY
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Georg, do you feel any difference between the handles themselves?

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 02-08-2017, 07:45 PM
#9
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I always enjoy these posts from Georg. My search for the "ultimate" brush has been about trying to find a substitute for the great Simpson 2-band silvertips from a few years ago. That these no longer exist is my greatest disappointment in wetshaving.

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 02-09-2017, 04:58 AM
#10
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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(02-08-2017, 07:34 PM)chazt Wrote: Georg, do you feel any difference between the handles themselves?

No, the handles are identical in shape, heft etc. The ivory fleck on the 2 Band does not come through in the picture.

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 02-09-2017, 04:59 AM
#11
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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(02-08-2017, 07:45 PM)rsp1202 Wrote: I always enjoy these posts from Georg. My search for the "ultimate" brush has been about trying to find a substitute for the great Simpson 2-band silvertips from a few years ago. That these no longer exist is my greatest disappointment in wetshaving.

Thanks, Ron. Indeed, a pity they are gone.

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 02-09-2017, 06:28 AM
#12
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Another good-write up.  The M7 is one of my favorite handles.  While I enjoy the M7 Manchurian, the single brush I would most like to see from Simpson is a 2-band M7 with specs like yours.

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 02-09-2017, 06:50 AM
#13
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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(02-08-2017, 12:19 PM)Rufus Wrote: My Simpson M6 Manchurian has a noticeable glue-bump.  When compared with my Simpson QE II Jubilee Manchurian, which has the same size knot as the M6, but without a glue-bump the difference in face-feel is immediately apparent.  The Jubilee is soft and pliable without being floppy whereas the M6 is quite stiff in comparison.  Thus, for those who like backbone the glue-bump would be welcome, but it's not for me.

You are right: many M6 of the TSN LE have a significant glue bump making it a very stiff knot that drew some complaints. Mine, luckily, had no prominent glue bump. Nevertheless, we separated, as the face feel was not to my liking. The Jubilee is a different animal all together, also because of the rather higher loft.
Manchurian with a short loft, i.e. below 50mm, is an acquired taste, mean quite scrubby or even scritchy depending on the batch. Other than the Duke that typically has a 48mm loft all recent Simpson Manchurian models have at least a loft of 50mm (current M7 are specified at 52mm).

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 02-09-2017, 06:54 AM
#14
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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(02-09-2017, 06:28 AM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: Another good-write up.  The M7 is one of my favorite handles.  While I enjoy the M7 Manchurian, the single brush I would most like to see from Simpson is a 2-band M7 with specs like yours.

Thanks. There has been the occasional showing of a M7 in 2 Band SiLVERTiP, but the current batch seems less desirable (to me). Also, knot diameters are getting smaller. What used to be a 24/25mm knot (in most of my 2012/13 2 bands, be it Duke, Harvard, M7, X3 etc etc) now equals a 22/23mm knot. Cost savings?

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 02-09-2017, 01:21 PM
#15
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I've thoroughly enjoyed reading these write ups (Part I & Part II) and the discussions that have resulted. Thank you!

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 02-10-2017, 07:47 PM
#16
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Bayside, NY
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(02-09-2017, 04:58 AM)German Wrote:
(02-08-2017, 07:34 PM)chazt Wrote: Georg, do you feel any difference between the handles themselves?

No, the handles are identical in shape, heft etc. The ivory fleck on the 2 Band does not come through in the picture.

Thanks. I was thinking there might've been a slightly more prominent ridge on the silvertip..

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 02-12-2017, 11:10 PM
#17
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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Wonderful write up with great shots of the collection, your Part 2 had my full attention just as Part 1 did!  The Simpson M7 is my favorite of all the handles and have a few of them myself. But I agree with you that lately I feel the knots in this class of brush seem to be trending a wee bit smaller on my calipers, but nothing as small as 22/23. Perhaps its cause is due to the knot base being tied tighter as I hope that the total weight of the hair being tied hasn't changed.. but one never knows. But great observation on that nuance as I thought myself a bit crazy for thinking that. 


I wasn't lucky enough to get the M7 GYLE when it was released but on my RAD to get all things Simpson M7, I happened to purchase one and the prior owner mentioned he purchased it from you originally. If you remember yours... the box is numbered #42.  Its an incredible grade of badger, its a very fine grade of hair packed densely into the handle with a face feel that I quite unique when compared to current day best, super and Manchurian.

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 02-13-2017, 04:28 AM
#18
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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(02-12-2017, 11:10 PM)refles Wrote: I wasn't lucky enough to get the M7 GYLE when it was released but on my RAD to get all things Simpson M7, I happened to purchase one and the prior owner mentioned he purchased it from you originally. If you remember yours... the box is numbered #42.  Its an incredible grade of badger, its a very fine grade of hair packed densely into the handle with a face feel that I quite unique when compared to current day best, super and Manchurian.

Thanks. Yes, that GYLE of yours was mine. I regret selling it. If you ever plan to part, I call DIBS...   Biggrin

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 02-13-2017, 05:04 AM
#19
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(02-08-2017, 07:45 PM)rsp1202 Wrote: I always enjoy these posts from Georg. My search for the "ultimate" brush has been about trying to find a substitute for the great Simpson 2-band silvertips from a few years ago. That these no longer exist is my greatest disappointment in wetshaving.

Same here, would love to try a Simpson 2-band, as the Manchurians I've had have been too scrubby or even scritchy for my taste.  Hence, why I no longer have a Simpson in my den.

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 02-13-2017, 05:26 AM
#20
  • refles
  • Senior Member
  • New York
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(02-13-2017, 04:28 AM)German Wrote: Thanks. Yes, that GYLE of yours was mine. I regret selling it. If you ever plan to part, I call DIBS...   Biggrin

If it ever makes it to the day it needs to go I'll let you know  Cheers  It is the only 3 band in a sea of 2 band Simpson M7's!

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