02-11-2017, 07:20 PM
#21
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(02-11-2017, 06:37 PM)Never2Close Wrote: How will you enforce this rule?  How do you match a sold item on TSN to that same item on eBay?  While a well intentioned rule in theory, seems problematic in practice.


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0 5
 02-11-2017, 07:26 PM
#22
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(02-11-2017, 07:20 PM)mpeters3215 Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 06:37 PM)Never2Close Wrote: How will you enforce this rule?  How do you match a sold item on TSN to that same item on eBay?  While a well intentioned rule in theory, seems problematic in practice.
There going to get on ebay and make them show there recipe lol

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Let me say this i agree but the long way to stop it is to not bid and purchase the items when there marked up so much

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0 5
 02-11-2017, 07:29 PM
#23
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(02-11-2017, 07:20 PM)mpeters3215 Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 06:37 PM)Never2Close Wrote: How will you enforce this rule?  How do you match a sold item on TSN to that same item on eBay?  While a well intentioned rule in theory, seems problematic in practice.
There going to get on ebay and make them show there recipe lol

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Probably not an appropriate comment as one of your first on the forum.

There are eyes everywhere in this niche community. 
This is a great forum with a fantastic bst section. The rules have been set up to keep it that way.

28 777
 02-11-2017, 07:34 PM
#24
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(02-11-2017, 07:29 PM)Safelysimpson Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 07:20 PM)mpeters3215 Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 06:37 PM)Never2Close Wrote: How will you enforce this rule?  How do you match a sold item on TSN to that same item on eBay?  While a well intentioned rule in theory, seems problematic in practice.
There going to get on ebay and make them show there recipe lol

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Probably not an appropriate comment as one of your first on the forum.

There are eyes everywhere in this niche community. 
This is a great forum with a fantastic bst section. The rules have been set up to keep it that way.
That's y I added to it after (ass of me understood) and I took it down don't want te wrong impression of me, thanks for the advice and in case ppl are wondering i don't sell on ebay mite buy but not sell

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0 5
 02-11-2017, 07:48 PM
#25
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There are many individuals who use the same or similar usernames on eBay as well as other social media platforms, so identifying those selling products at a high mark up is not difficult. While many of these listings are likely unrelated to BST transactions, please understand that members of this community talk to each other, so ultimately it is only a matter of time before anyone guilty of BST flipping is unmasked.

One example of a dead giveaway that's worth mentioning is the member who posts a want to buy ad for an item here and then two months later the member lists the same item on eBay (or other wet shaving BSTs) at a 300% markup.

It has been my experience that many members here are extremely generous when it comes to sharing hard to find items. Those who intend to exploit these well-intentioned members for financial gain are not welcome here.

170 1,060
 02-11-2017, 07:51 PM
#26
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(02-11-2017, 07:34 PM)mpeters3215 Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 07:29 PM)Safelysimpson Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 07:20 PM)mpeters3215 Wrote: There going to get on ebay and make them show there recipe lol

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Probably not an appropriate comment as one of your first on the forum.

There are eyes everywhere in this niche community. 
This is a great forum with a fantastic bst section. The rules have been set up to keep it that way.
That's y I added to it after (ass of me understood) and no in case ppl are wondering i don't sell on ebay mite buy but not sell

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No problem, its hard to fully understand somebody's intentions from a post with sarcasm. Welcome to the nook, I hope you enjoy the forum

28 777
 02-11-2017, 07:52 PM
#27
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Wow a rule banning basic economics of supply and demand. This seems like a addition to a issue I had when I was selling my used refinish /polished razors at new cost or little more for my skill. I moved on to a more user friendly forum. If the wolfman demand was not there they wouldn't sell for $700+


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13 384
 02-11-2017, 07:55 PM
#28
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(02-11-2017, 07:52 PM)Rlacrossjr Wrote: Wow a rule banning basic economics of supply and demand. This seems like a addition to a issue I had when I was selling my used refinish /polished razors at new cost or little more for my skill. I moved on to a more user friendly forum. If the wolfman demand was not there they wouldn't sell for $700+


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This is in fact a rule preventing scalpers from cherry picking the bst to resell at profits. Hardly seems unjust in my opinion.

Also there is a vendor section for those who have skills that warrant monetary value.

28 777
 02-11-2017, 07:59 PM
#29
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(02-11-2017, 07:51 PM)Safelysimpson Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 07:34 PM)mpeters3215 Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 07:29 PM)Safelysimpson Wrote: Probably not an appropriate comment as one of your first on the forum.

There are eyes everywhere in this niche community. 
This is a great forum with a fantastic bst section. The rules have been set up to keep it that way.
That's y I added to it after (ass of me understood) and no in case ppl are wondering i don't sell on ebay mite buy but not sell

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No problem, its hard to fully understand somebody's intentions from a post with sarcasm. Welcome to the nook, I hope you enjoy the forum
Thank you sir

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0 5
 02-11-2017, 09:36 PM
#30
  • DJL813
  • Senior Member
  • Darien, CT
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(02-11-2017, 07:20 PM)merkur man Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 06:37 PM)Never2Close Wrote: How will you enforce this rule?  How do you match a sold item on TSN to that same item on eBay?  While a well intentioned rule in theory, seems problematic in practice.


Wondered the same thing myself.  How can you guys be sure that the items sold on eBay are the same as those purchased from the Shave Nook BST?  People around here seem to have multiples of everything.  Not saying that the idea doesn't have merit, because I despise high price flipping just as much as the next guy, but I just can't imagine trying to practically and fairly enforce this rule.

Nathan....I actually sent a PM to Nevada Red once I read his post--to which he responded immediately and for that I am grateful.

I agree 100% with the intent but the enforcement is the tricky part.  I'm one of the fortunate who own more than my fair share of Wolfman and BBS-1 razors---however only one razor came from James and another was purchased here on TSN from a very generous member---all others were purchased on Ebay at a "premium". My rule is simple and I believe this really boils down to integrity:  if I buy a "hard to obtain" item on TSN.....I will only sell it on TSN.  But but but......what about trades? Here's a hypothetical...what if I purchase for example, a Wiborg brush on Ebay for $500 and then trade the brush on TSN for a BBS1...am I now obligated to sell the BBS1 on TSN at the retail price or if I later sell the BBS-1 on Ebay for $500 would I be banned from TSN?  I have no intention of selling my razors but rules such as this make the wheels turn in my little head Smile  

IT'S SAD WE EVEN NEED A RULE OR HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH THIS ISSUE...I LOOK AT TSN AS MY FAMILY OF FELLOW SHAVERS AND AS SUCH, COULD NEVER AND WOULD NEVER TAKE ADVANTAGE OF FAMILY......

Just my 2¢...happy shaving!

128 573
 02-12-2017, 08:42 AM
#31
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(02-11-2017, 07:52 PM)Rlacrossjr Wrote: Wow a rule banning basic economics of supply and demand. This seems like a addition to a issue I had when I was selling my used refinish /polished razors at new cost or little more for my skill. I moved on to a more user friendly forum. If the wolfman demand was not there they wouldn't sell for $700+


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I think this is the nub of the issue, because the 'basic economics of supply and demand' are not at play in the TSN BST. 

Here's why: There are price constrictions. So, knowing that a piece of unobtanium is selling for a lot more in the open market, someone looking to take advantage of this scoops it up on this forum and then goes to eBay where the market dictates. 

Like DJL813, I was impatient and bought some high-end gear on eBay a while ago. I made an economic decision that avoiding the wait time and attention I had to give to getting a razor or brush was worth the premium.

If I ever decided to sell one of those (which I haven't and probably won't), I wouldn't do it here, because according to the BST rules, I'd never recoup my initial investment. So, I'd go elsewhere. Simple. Better yet, I'd trade.

But buying something on this BST, where there are rules limiting the prices for which items can be sold, and then flipping them might make a profit, but I completely understand why those actions will make that person unwelcome here.

29 816
 02-12-2017, 09:39 AM
#32
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(02-12-2017, 08:42 AM)Michael P Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 07:52 PM)Rlacrossjr Wrote: Wow a rule banning basic economics of supply and demand. This seems like a addition to a issue I had when I was selling my used refinish /polished razors at new cost or little more for my skill. I moved on to a more user friendly forum. If the wolfman demand was not there they wouldn't sell for $700+

I think this is the nub of the issue, because the 'basic economics of supply and demand' are not at play in the TSN BST. 

Gentlemen, there are sound reasons for this rule.  BST is not a capitalistic free market.  It is a place for members in our shaving community to buy, sell and trade with each other.  Sellers on BST understand that they cannot charge more than retail for their item, including shipping.  By selling on BST, sellers are knowingly passing up the opportunity to sell their item for more elsewhere in order to benefit the community.  This is an example of the values which make TSN a great place.  It's fundamentally wrong for someone to abuse those values by buying at BST prices from a seller who gladly gave up the option of selling at a higher price elsewhere, then flipping the item for a profit.

There may indeed be some practical issues with enforcing this rule in all cases.  However, those issues are not a justification for having no rule and losing the positive values our community holds.

51 7,563
 02-12-2017, 10:06 AM
#33
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How does this relate to, for example, the 2017 TSN LE 5th anniversary Thater brush?  This brush is purchased directly from the vendor (Bullgoose) although one could say it was "sponsored" through TSN.

Just trying to understand the demarcation between BST and non-BST acquired gear.

Thanks for the clarification.

22 784
 02-12-2017, 10:43 AM
#34
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(02-12-2017, 10:06 AM)LookingGlass Wrote: How does this relate to, for example, the 2017 TSN LE 5th anniversary Thater brush?  This brush is purchased directly from the vendor (Bullgoose) although one could say it was "sponsored" through TSN.

Just trying to understand the demarcation between BST and non-BST acquired gear.

Thanks for the clarification.

Maybe I've missed something here..... The brush has a retail price therefore if it's sold here again it can not be sold for more than that retail price. But maybe I've missed something here......

23 1,385
 02-12-2017, 10:46 AM
#35
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(02-12-2017, 10:43 AM)Nevada Red Wrote:
(02-12-2017, 10:06 AM)LookingGlass Wrote: How does this relate to, for example, the 2017 TSN LE 5th anniversary Thater brush?  This brush is purchased directly from the vendor (Bullgoose) although one could say it was "sponsored" through TSN.

Just trying to understand the demarcation between BST and non-BST acquired gear.

Thanks for the clarification.

Maybe I've missed something here..... The brush has a retail price therefore if it's sold here again it can not be sold for more than that retail price.  But maybe I've missed something here......

I think he means that if he purchases the brush from Phil, he's not clear if he can sell it outside of BST for a gain.

51 7,563
 02-12-2017, 11:05 AM
#36
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(02-12-2017, 09:39 AM)TheLegalRazor Wrote:
(02-12-2017, 08:42 AM)Michael P Wrote:
(02-11-2017, 07:52 PM)Rlacrossjr Wrote: Wow a rule banning basic economics of supply and demand. This seems like a addition to a issue I had when I was selling my used refinish /polished razors at new cost or little more for my skill. I moved on to a more user friendly forum. If the wolfman demand was not there they wouldn't sell for $700+

I think this is the nub of the issue, because the 'basic economics of supply and demand' are not at play in the TSN BST. 

Gentlemen, there are sound reasons for this rule.  BST is not a capitalistic free market.  It is a place for members in our shaving community to buy, sell and trade with each other.  Sellers on BST understand that they cannot charge more than retail for their item, including shipping.  By selling on BST, sellers are knowingly passing up the opportunity to sell their item for more elsewhere in order to benefit the community.  This is an example of the values which make TSN a great place.  It's fundamentally wrong for someone to abuse those values by buying at BST prices from a seller who gladly gave up the option of selling at a higher price elsewhere, then flipping the item for a profit.

There may indeed be some practical issues with enforcing this rule in all cases.  However, those issues are not a justification for having no rule and losing the positive values our community holds.

I understand the whole TSN BST and flipping we're all against it here but if someone buys something not from the TSN and flips or sells for a profit outside of here are we still going to ban that member from TSN even tho no transactions where done here? It doesn't seem fair for banning people for business transactions that have nothing to do with the nook. Just my feelings but whatever the course is it is.

1 9
 02-12-2017, 11:14 AM
#37
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Quote:Any member through ignorance or intent who buys or acquires through trade an item on the BST at TSN and in turn sells on Ebay for these high prices will be IMMEDIATELY BANNED.

I though this was fairly clear? Perhaps it's the fact that English isn't my first language that makes me think it's pretty cut and dried.

A member who flips items on fleaBay (or elsewhere) that s/he has acquired on our BST will be banned. Someone who flips items s/he have acquired from the BST of a different forum might find themselves distrusted by other members on the BST - as it can and often will be seen as a pattern of behaviour. If someone is willing to misuse the trust and good will of fellow shavers on a different shaving forum, why should they be shown trust and good will here?

Items bought directly from a vendor or artisan is a whole different kettle of fish - but cannot be flipped for a profit on The ShaveNook, per the BST rules.

3 5,353
 02-12-2017, 11:29 AM
#38
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Totally agree with this.


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3 1,184
 02-12-2017, 11:45 AM
#39
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What is interesting is the idea of collectors that have become hoarders.  There are some folks that have hundreds of razors that can't possibly use them all.  There is nothing inherently wrong with someone that likes collecting things, but when they buy up so many vintage or unique razors from the market, it raises the market prices - just basic supply and demand.  Less supply available without reducing demand.  What is better - an enthusiast that wants to buy a razor to use and experience it, or someone that buys it and sticks it in a collection so large they can't possibly enjoy it for use.  We don't discourage the hoarders here.  We kind of admire them and enable this behavior.  One could argue that the hoarder can sell off some of their razors to someone that they think will use it, but that would encourage the perspective that individuals should be allowed to determine who is worthy of owning something rather then the market.   That is also assuming that they are willing to sell the items you want.  For me, whenever we allow individuals to control the market, this is not a good thing.  The problem is how do you measure someone's intent or worthiness?  I personally like the idea of selling something to someone that will use the product over someone that just wants to add to a huge collection, but in reality neither buyer is wrong in desiring whatever product they seek to purchase.  This is a bit different from the point of resellers selling items to turn a profit, but both situations effect the market, jack up prices, and control supply.  Someone that buys 10 hard to find items like a Wolfman razor only makes it harder for a guy like me that just wants to buy 1 and use it.  Maybe the person that buys 10 wants different colors, metals, styles, etc so I get it.  They are a good customer and they like to collect what they can, but if we are trying to all be gentlemen, we should buy what we use, and give others a chance to pick something they would like for items in high demand.

I remember when RR starting producing the Hawk in black and silver.  The Italian barber limited the purchase to one to allow as many different people to at least get 1, yet I read about people that would order one of each under friends names so that they could get both!  

I respect and agree with the basic argument that if someone does sell something to a member, it should be done at a fair price, with the intent that folks are not here for profit, but rather propagate the enjoyment of shaving.  I think if you bought something here and decided you no longer want it for any reason, you should first offer back to this community for a similar value first.  If there are no takers, then you should be free to do what you want, but my feeling is that if the folks here do not want your product at a reasonable price, nobody on the general internet will want it at a higher price.  At least you did what was right and offered back to the group first.

Thank is my 2 cents.  Happy shaving.
Steve

0 828
 02-12-2017, 11:50 AM
#40
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Question: who'd SELL when they could HAVE? Wink Wink I had RAD as well as BAD, an that's just the beginning. These 'flippers', well, they just don't GET it, do they? Wink

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