03-06-2017, 01:00 PM
#1
  • Mouser
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  • Forest City, Florida U.S.A.
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But am I in the minority for preferring "mainline" soaps and creams to artisan? By just about every measure. Now for the record I consider brands like Castle Forbes and MWF mainline.

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 03-06-2017, 01:14 PM
#2
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What would you consider artisan?

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 03-06-2017, 01:32 PM
#3
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I for one do keep away from them.

I prefer a professionalism as is with
Esbjerg, Meissner, I Coloniali, AdP, Penhaligon's, Klar and a few more.




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 03-06-2017, 01:41 PM
#4
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you probably are in the minority

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 03-06-2017, 01:46 PM
#5
  • German
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Same here.. I do have a few but I am also concerned about product stability as in the U.S. everybody pretty much can cook everything... Biggrin

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 03-06-2017, 02:32 PM
#6
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(03-06-2017, 01:46 PM)German Wrote: Same here.. I do have a few but I am also concerned about product stability as in the U.S. everybody pretty much can cook everything... Biggrin


The risk is not in the composition of the soaps but in the elements used for the composition of the scents.

Some essential oils can be dangerous / carcinogenic. They require sacred knowledge and respect for recommendations which not everyone is likely to know.

Ok, logically, essential oils are also regulated in the United States, but one might wonder if some craftsmen would not use it while failing to declare it in their composition of soap.

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 03-06-2017, 02:53 PM
#7
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(03-06-2017, 02:32 PM)PapySnake Wrote:
(03-06-2017, 01:46 PM)German Wrote: Same here.. I do have a few but I am also concerned about product stability as in the U.S. everybody pretty much can cook everything... Biggrin


The risk is not in the composition of the soaps but in the elements used for the composition of the scents.

Some essential oils can be dangerous / carcinogenic. They require sacred knowledge and respect for recommendations which not everyone is likely to know.

Ok, logically, essential oils are also regulated in the United States, but one might wonder if some craftsmen would not use it while failing to declare it in their composition of soap.

There is very little regulation in the United States. That is one of the reasons there has been such a proliferation of soap makers here compared to Europe.

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 03-06-2017, 03:06 PM
#8
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No, you are not in the minority. I prefer "mainline" to just about every artisan brand. I've tried MANY artisan soaps, American and European and imo none of them compare to the likes of SMN, XPEC, icoloniali, AoS etc
I will say this, every exception to the rule happened to be an European artisan (MDC and Nuavia)
The only American artisan soap I found on par with mainline soaps or the two European artisans above is LASSC blackfern.
Just my opinion, ymmv.
This is solely based on performance and doesn't factor in packaging, price, hype or whatever else...

As mentioned by other members, another reason why I keep away from artisans is "lack of faith" in the components used. I just can't see how a 4oz puck can be offered for less than $15 can include any premium ingredients. And that $15 covers materials, labor, tools involved, packaging, etc.. in addition to this I am just not fond of the idea of using a soap made in someone's kitchen or bathroom.. that's just me though.

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 03-06-2017, 03:18 PM
#9
  • nikos.a
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  • Athens, Greece
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(03-06-2017, 02:53 PM)nervosa1901 Wrote:
(03-06-2017, 02:32 PM)PapySnake Wrote:
(03-06-2017, 01:46 PM)German Wrote: Same here.. I do have a few but I am also concerned about product stability as in the U.S. everybody pretty much can cook everything... Biggrin


The risk is not in the composition of the soaps but in the elements used for the composition of the scents.

Some essential oils can be dangerous / carcinogenic. They require sacred knowledge and respect for recommendations which not everyone is likely to know.

Ok, logically, essential oils are also regulated in the United States, but one might wonder if some craftsmen would not use it while failing to declare it in their composition of soap.

There is very little regulation in the United States. That is one of the reasons there has been such a proliferation of soap makers here compared to Europe.

European legislation is very strict regarding cosmetics. That's true, Chris. I read almost every month about a new soapmaker based in the States. A few years back, big European companies had to change their ingredient lists, even Chanel, to comply with regulations.


But, speaking about shaving soaps or shaving products in general, I don't believe that each and every European artisan has some kind of certification to start making and selling soaps. They just make them. Let's say that I wonder if my favorite European artisan complies with regulations. Can I see or read it somewhere on the label of the product?

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 03-06-2017, 03:56 PM
#10
  • Mouser
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  • Forest City, Florida U.S.A.
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(03-06-2017, 01:14 PM)DBart. Wrote: What would you consider artisan?
Every brand thats come on the scene since i started wet shaving and isnt anymore, for instance.

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 03-06-2017, 04:18 PM
#11
  • Steelman
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I prefer mainline as well (C&S/Valobra/AOS; I Coloniali; MWF; Floris; SMN) but there are certain artisans I love and trust.  Mike's & CRSW; Boellis among them.  These "artisans" have not let me down and seem very consistent year to year.

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 03-06-2017, 04:39 PM
#12
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(03-06-2017, 03:18 PM)nikos.a Wrote:
(03-06-2017, 02:53 PM)nervosa1901 Wrote:
(03-06-2017, 02:32 PM)PapySnake Wrote: The risk is not in the composition of the soaps but in the elements used for the composition of the scents.

Some essential oils can be dangerous / carcinogenic. They require sacred knowledge and respect for recommendations which not everyone is likely to know.

Ok, logically, essential oils are also regulated in the United States, but one might wonder if some craftsmen would not use it while failing to declare it in their composition of soap.

There is very little regulation in the United States. That is one of the reasons there has been such a proliferation of soap makers here compared to Europe.

European legislation is very strict regarding cosmetics. That's true, Chris. I read almost every month about a new soapmaker based in the States. A few years back, big European companies had to change their ingredient lists, even Chanel, to comply with regulations.


But, speaking about shaving soaps or shaving products in general, I don't believe that each and every European artisan has some kind of certification to start making and selling soaps. They just make them. Let's say that I wonder if my favorite European artisan complies with regulations. Can I see or read it somewhere on the label of the product?


Who would be your favorite European artisan

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 03-06-2017, 04:50 PM
#13
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I am fairly certain all EU soap makers must get certified to comply with regs, which I think is reassuring. This is why so few US soap makers sell through EU vendors. They don't want to pay for the certification.

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 03-06-2017, 05:08 PM
#14
  • nikos.a
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  • Athens, Greece
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I was talking hypothetically about my favorite.


There were a few vendors in Europe that used to sell some American artisan products. They had to stop this in order to comply with regulations. You can't sell American products just like that. They must be certified.

About European artisans, we've seen in the past products that were not cured enough to be sold, smelling ammonia, other European artisans don't even have a site, others are on Etsy, others don't respond to emails, some of their soaps acquire a harsh/ strange texture after a few uses, the only info on their labels are the ingredient lists just like the American etc. There's no point to name anyone. How can we be sure that all these makers are certified or comply with regulations? How can a consumer know that?

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 03-06-2017, 05:18 PM
#15
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I guess there isn't really a way!! Which is mainly why I am attracted to "mainstream" soaps

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 03-06-2017, 05:38 PM
#16
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(03-06-2017, 05:08 PM)nikos.a Wrote: I was talking hypothetically about my favorite.


There were a few vendors in Europe that used to sell some American artisan products. They had to stop this in order to comply with regulations. You can't sell American products just like that. They must be certified.

About European artisans, we've seen in the past products that were not cured enough to be sold, smelling ammonia, other European artisans don't even have a site, others are on Etsy, others don't respond to emails, some of their soaps acquire a harsh/ strange texture after a few uses, the only info on their labels are the ingredient lists just like the American etc. There's no point to name anyone. How can we be sure that all these makers are certified or comply with regulations? How can a consumer know that?


Interesting question, Nikos.

One can always ask the artisan if they have the necessary certifications to sell their shaving soaps.

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 03-06-2017, 05:43 PM
#17
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I always looked at Castle Forbes as artisan.

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 03-06-2017, 05:44 PM
#18
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(03-06-2017, 01:00 PM)Mouser Wrote: But am I in the minority for preferring "mainline" soaps and creams to artisan? By just about every measure. Now for the record I consider brands like Castle Forbes and MWF mainline.


I was like you for years.
Did not like the idea of using a soap made in someone's home kitchen.
The whole idea made my OCD scream.

In 2014 I started to slowly try some artisan soaps. Today I use 10-12 brands, still not sure I trust them all, one being Phoenix & Beau, but their performance beat many of the well established names.

I trust artisan brands like CRSW, Tabula Rasa, LPL, MDC, SDM, MT, Mike's, B&M and Caties.

But I definitely understand the Gents who question the artisan soaps based on how they are made and where they are being produced (home kitchens and storage room etc.)

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 03-06-2017, 06:17 PM
#19
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(03-06-2017, 05:38 PM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(03-06-2017, 05:08 PM)nikos.a Wrote: I was talking hypothetically about my favorite.


There were a few vendors in Europe that used to sell some American artisan products. They had to stop this in order to comply with regulations. You can't sell American products just like that. They must be certified.

About European artisans, we've seen in the past products that were not cured enough to be sold, smelling ammonia, other European artisans don't even have a site, others are on Etsy, others don't respond to emails, some of their soaps acquire a harsh/ strange texture after a few uses, the only info on their labels are the ingredient lists just like the American etc. There's no point to name anyone. How can we be sure that all these makers are certified or comply with regulations? How can a consumer know that?


Interesting question, Nikos.

One can always ask the artisan if they have the necessary certifications to sell their shaving soaps.
This would be unfortunate if soap makers are not complying with the law in the EU. I can imagine the fines for non-compliance would be punitive. I share Claus' sentiment with regard to the process by which soap is made in this country, as well as the ingredients. I tend to stick to well-known EU soap makers, as well as my one trusted brand based in the US.

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 03-06-2017, 06:35 PM
#20
  • MaxP
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  • Madison, WI
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For Mainline soaps - DR Harris without a second thought.

That said, there are several artisanal soaps that I really, really like.

Is Castle Forbes "Mainline" or artisanal? Hmmm.

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