03-20-2017, 03:16 AM
#21
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Bayside, NY
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For the dozen shaves or so a year it might be called upon for active duty, I don't mind the CH2's performance too much. No, it's not a deluxe badger brush, but I don't expect it to behave like one either. It's strictly for travel, imo. Why even bother with it when home?

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 03-20-2017, 06:25 AM
#22
  • stanko
  • Junior Member
  • Perth Western Australia
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This is my least favorite brush.

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 03-21-2017, 01:48 AM
#23
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(03-20-2017, 03:16 AM)chazt Wrote: For the dozen shaves or so a year it might be called upon for active duty, I don't mind the CH2's performance too much. No, it's not a deluxe badger brush, but I don't expect it to behave like one either. It's strictly for travel, imo. Why even bother with it when home?


Why even bother with it while traveling ?

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 03-21-2017, 03:39 PM
#24
  • matloffm
  • Senior Member
  • Culver City, CA
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Synthetics are not badger, boar or horse hair.  All the animal hair brushes have different characteristics and their use is adjusted accordingly.  I don't understand the criticism that goes synthetics don't behave like badgers.  They are a different tool.  Learn to use them and you can get great performance from modern synthetics without the animal hair issues (stench, maintenance, slow drying).  If I were to criticize a straight razor for not shaving like a cart or double edge, would you find that useful information?

Buy the way, I just dampen the tips of my brushes to load them.  If the soap is hard, I dampen them again.  If I am lathering and I need more water, a little water on the tips takes care of it.  Synthetics are not meant to be soaked like a badger because the fibers don't hold water like animal hair.  I am sure if you learned to use them, you would enjoy the results.

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 03-21-2017, 04:27 PM
#25
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(03-21-2017, 03:39 PM)matloffm Wrote: Synthetics are not badger, boar or horse hair.  All the animal hair brushes have different characteristics and their use is adjusted accordingly.  I don't understand the criticism that goes synthetics don't behave like badgers.  They are a different tool.  Learn to use them and you can get great performance from modern synthetics without the animal hair issues (stench, maintenance, slow drying).  If I were to criticize a straight razor for not shaving like a cart or double edge, would you find that useful information?

Buy the way, I just dampen the tips of my brushes to load them.  If the soap is hard, I dampen them again.  If I am lathering and I need more water, a little water on the tips takes care of it.  Synthetics are not meant to be soaked like a badger because the fibers don't hold water like animal hair.  I am sure if you learned to use them, you would enjoy the results.

You raise valid points.  I've never compared synthetics to badgers because they're not badgers.  Each of the hair types - badger, boar, horse and synthetic - have unique characteristics.  Saying a synthetic doesn't behave like a badger is conceptually the same as saying a badger doesn't behave like a synthetic.   It all comes down to subjective preference.  I'm fortunate to have a great assortment of the best two-band badger brushes, yet my Chubby 2 synthetics get used and enjoyed at least twice every week.

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 03-21-2017, 05:46 PM
#26
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(03-21-2017, 03:39 PM)matloffm Wrote: Synthetics are not badger, boar or horse hair.  All the animal hair brushes have different characteristics and their use is adjusted accordingly.  I don't understand the criticism that goes synthetics don't behave like badgers.  They are a different tool.  Learn to use them and you can get great performance from modern synthetics without the animal hair issues (stench, maintenance, slow drying).  If I were to criticize a straight razor for not shaving like a cart or double edge, would you find that useful information?

Buy the way, I just dampen the tips of my brushes to load them.  If the soap is hard, I dampen them again.  If I am lathering and I need more water, a little water on the tips takes care of it.  Synthetics are not meant to be soaked like a badger because the fibers don't hold water like animal hair.  I am sure if you learned to use them, you would enjoy the results.


Precisely.

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 03-22-2017, 04:45 AM
#27
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Love it. Great brush that is soft and can handle any soap.

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 03-22-2017, 10:16 AM
#28
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(03-21-2017, 03:39 PM)matloffm Wrote: Synthetics are not badger, boar or horse hair.  All the animal hair brushes have different characteristics and their use is adjusted accordingly.  I don't understand the criticism that goes synthetics don't behave like badgers.  They are a different tool.  Learn to use them and you can get great performance from modern synthetics without the animal hair issues (stench, maintenance, slow drying).  If I were to criticize a straight razor for not shaving like a cart or double edge, would you find that useful information?

Buy the way, I just dampen the tips of my brushes to load them.  If the soap is hard, I dampen them again.  If I am lathering and I need more water, a little water on the tips takes care of it.  Synthetics are not meant to be soaked like a badger because the fibers don't hold water like animal hair.  I am sure if you learned to use them, you would enjoy the results.

I'm sure if you would address the thread starter in a less arrogant way, the thread starter would provide you with a respectful reply.

As it is, your tone in your post is disrespectful and unpleasant.

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 03-22-2017, 12:07 PM
#29
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Hi Claus,

I exclusively use synthetic knots and also have the chubby 2 synthetic Brush.

I enjoy the brush as it exhibits a different face feel due to the Size of the knot. however for me the handle is not very comfortable and wish they would produce a synthetic brush in and M7 type handle.

I have never used badger brushes so I can comment. But what I can say is that I recently bought a tuxedo synthetic brush (similar to the black wolf whiskers knot) and to me it holds more water in the brush and releases water in a more controlled way compared to the plisson type and Muhle silvertip fibre knots.

There is also a new type of synthetic brush that I have but yet to use called the 'Cashmere' knot..the fibres are noticbly softer than the tuxedo or plisson type knots that I have and looks great. I will report back with my impressions if anyone is intrested.

IMHO think synthetics have come a long way from 3 to 4 years ago and will hopefully continue to improve.

Don't give up on them just yet!

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 03-22-2017, 03:14 PM
#30
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(03-22-2017, 12:07 PM)D_SM Wrote: Hi Claus,

I exclusively use synthetic knots and also have the chubby 2 synthetic Brush.

I enjoy the brush as it exhibits a different face feel due to the Size of the knot. however for me the handle is not very comfortable and wish they would produce a synthetic brush in and M7 type handle.

I have never used badger brushes so I can comment. But what I can say is that I recently bought a tuxedo synthetic brush (similar to the black wolf whiskers knot) and to me it holds more water in the brush and releases water in a more controlled way compared to the plisson type and Muhle silvertip fibre knots.

There is also a new type of synthetic brush that I have but yet to use called the 'Cashmere' knot..the fibres are noticbly softer than the tuxedo or plisson type knots that I have and looks great. I will report back with my impressions if anyone is intrested.

IMHO think synthetics have come a long way from 3 to 4 years ago and will hopefully continue to improve.

Don't give up on them just yet!


Thanks for your post !

Interesting to read your take on Synthetics.

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 03-22-2017, 03:31 PM
#31
  • matloffm
  • Senior Member
  • Culver City, CA
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To those who found my post too aggressive or offensive, I apologize.  My intent was not to upset anyone, but simply point out the criticisms of synthetics dripping water down one's neck are not characteristic of synthetics when used properly.  I also have no problem with anyone who enjoys badger/horse hair/boar to the exclusion of other brushes.  But frankly, it seemed to me that through improper use a very good tool was being criticized for not working like a badger brush.

Sorry to those I offended.  It was not my intent.

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 03-22-2017, 03:33 PM
#32
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An open letter to whom it might concern..........

I personally feel Synthetics have come a long way since I started using my first in 2011.

But I'm no longer sure they will ever catch the prime badgers regarding face feel. They are softer in feel, but less solid than badgers.

For me personally, I compare brushes, no matter hair type and place them in the same category.
The end product that the brush has been made for is to create lather. People seem to forget this.

Whether I drive in a Diesel engined car or a gasoline engined car, comparing the two cars is a natural thing to do.
I personally happen to prefer gasoline engines over Diesel engines.
But if I bought a Diesel car, it would be perfectly natural and logic to compare it to my gasoline car.

I seek for the brush that best helps me in creating the perfect lather.

Still number one for me is a prime badger (high quality badger brush)

Whenever I use a Synthetic, I will always compare the lather they create on my face with the brushes that has made the best and most stable lather on my face. This perfect lather happens to come from one of my prime badgers.

As with Mitchell Wool Fat shaving soap, that works great for some, but happen to be a soap I find to be terrible, I seem to have the same constant issues with Synthetic brushes.
Even though I only add drops of water to my Synthetics (I NEVER soak a Synthetic), they still accumulate water in the knot that stays beneath the lather in the knot, so even if I shake the brush to get the accumulated water drops out of the knot, the water is trapped behind the lather in the knot, and not until I do the final inward press with the knot to finalise the face lather, the water at that point is let loose and escapes out through the lather in the knot and then dribbles down the skin on me.

I guess Synthetics are just not made for me after all....

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 03-23-2017, 07:04 PM
#33
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I have both the Chubby 2 and Duke 3 in synthetic.  Slight nod to the Duke.  Use them for travel and part of the rotation.  Nice brushes and no hassle.  I had the issue with too much water at first until I figured out I didn't need to pre soak and to give it an extra shake.  For you dribblers out there just shake that thing!

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 03-23-2017, 07:49 PM
#34
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(03-23-2017, 07:04 PM)Armiger Wrote: I have both the Chubby 2 and Duke 3 in synthetic.  Slight nod to the Duke.  Use them for travel and part of the rotation.  Nice brushes and no hassle.  I had the issue with too much water at first until I figured out I didn't need to pre soak and to give it an extra shake.  For you dribblers out there just shake that thing!


Thanks for your tip.

You have to agree, that having to dry shake a brush used for wet shaving and avoiding it gets too wet at all cost sounds a little crazy......

I'm probably 300+ shaves in with Synthetics since 2011 and my instincts just oppose the whole idea behind avoiding getting the brush hairs too wet, because the artificial fibres can't hold on to water, when slightly pressed.

I just will never learn to accept how touchy Synthetics are with getting too wet, in a wet shave, where I want my lather moist and hydrated.

Good luck to you guys, that have figured it out, and who don't have instincts going against the logic of not wetting the brush too much during your wet shave !

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 03-23-2017, 07:51 PM
#35
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Claus, I hear you about badger brushes. There's nothing like a good Simpson Manchurian, Thäter, Paladin, M&F, Shavemac, and my guilty pleasure, the Saponificio Varesino.

Recently, I had trouble lathering one particular soap with my usual go-to brushes. Then I tried it with an inexpensive (Stirling) synthetic and it lathered beautifully. I experimented with various brushes, including a Simpson synthetic. The Simpson synthetic did a better job in lathering that soap than the badgers, but it was not as good as the other synthetics.

I've always found the Simpson synthetic to be most like badgers in face feel out of the synthetic brushes I have. But, the Simpson synthetic was less effective in lathering than the other synthetics I have (Stirling, Envy, Plisson, etc.).

So my verdict on the Simpson synthetic is that the face feel is more like badger than other synthetics I have, but not as efficient in lathering.

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 03-24-2017, 05:39 PM
#36
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Bayside, NY
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(03-21-2017, 01:48 AM)CHSeifert Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 03:16 AM)chazt Wrote: For the dozen shaves or so a year it might be called upon for active duty, I don't mind the CH2's performance too much. No, it's not a deluxe badger brush, but I don't expect it to behave like one either. It's strictly for travel, imo. Why even bother with it when home?


Why even bother with it while traveling ?

Actually a very good question. I've gotten to know and understand its characteristics and enjoy using it when I do. I'm relatively uninterested in looking for anything else at this time. Just my opinion, but I only see the need for synthetic brushes when away from home. For me, at least until I retire, historically that's only a week or two a year. The CH2 synthetic is vastly superior to the only other synthetic brush I've tried (Omega hi-brush). It suits my needs just fine. Truly, for the few shaves a year I use it (12 is a few, right?), I simply don't feel compelled to seek another alternative.

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 03-25-2017, 02:11 PM
#37
  • ajc347
  • Senior Member
  • Exeter, UK
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(03-22-2017, 03:33 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: Still number one for me is a prime badger (high quality badger brush) ... I guess Synthetics are just not made for me after all....

I'm starting to come to the same conclusion Claus. 

Of all the synthetics I own, the CH2 is possibly the best of them - however it comes nowhere close to a top-end badger brush. 

As much as I'm wanting to like them, I fear that I will most probably be selling my synthetic collection at some stage in the near future. Sad

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 03-25-2017, 03:28 PM
#38
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I like my Chubby 2 synthetic as a travel companion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 03-25-2017, 10:34 PM
#39
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Geez Claus, I've found the Chubby 2 Synthetic to stellar brush. I just give it a little shake before loading and it works like a dream, I use it mainly for traveling (dry time) or for hard soaps. 

I do agree the Chubby 2 is a little difficult to hold but never found it slippery, consider the Chubby 2 to be the 911 of the shaving world Wink

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 Yesterday, 05:22 AM
#40
  • Nero
  • Saving Through Spending More
  • le montagne
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This is coming from someone with sensitive skin.... and this is not to pick an argument. Just trying to balance this thread out a bit.

GENERALLY SPEAKING...
My issues with badger brushes are that they are usually too scritchy and too dense (Shavemac D01)... Or the exact opposite: too soft and too floppy (Kent). You could say those are extreme examples. I agree they are, but only to make the point.

Very few, like maybe 25% maximum of badger brushes fall into the sweet spot of sufficient but not excessive backbone AND soft but not excessively soft. For me a badger brush should have NO SCRITCH EVER. If I wanted scritch I would just go buy a boar brush, or twenty, and save myself some money.

Synthetics on the other hand are right in the sweet spot. I haven't tried all synthetics, but those I have tried are pretty much all in the sweet spot. None of them have scritch. None are too dense and none are too floppy. They pretty much all have tips that are as soft as my softest badger brushes.

I don't think I have sold any of my synthetic brushes I've ever bought. Whereas I've happily sold 80% of the badger brushes I've bought...couldn't get rid of them fast enough.

And finally, I just don't have the issue with water dripping, using just a tiny bit concentration: dip only the tips (less than half centimeter) in water and load just like I would with a badger. When I need more water, I do the same (dip the tips less than half centimeter). I don't know how water could get up into the knot behind the lather if you do this. All water should be locked into the lather.

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