03-20-2017, 09:49 AM
#1
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I've been considering a Plisson HMW 2 band brush for some time but also been hesitant to chase one for a number of reasons; rarity, price, tip softness and known shedding issues.
I have limited experience with Plisson brushes and seek some help from experienced members here with these brushes. I've used 3 HMW 3 band brushes in the past (all size 12) and i wasn't totally impressed!
One had awful shedding problem and scritchy tips, the other two while didn't shed they weren't as soft as I prefer my brushes to be.

I am seeking feedback regarding the HMW 2 band brushes, mainly concerning face feel and softness. I enjoy splay and not too much backbone which I would think are characteristics of Plisson brushes given knot specs.
I have a very sensitive skin and so I prefer very soft brushes with minimum scrub but not too much and certainly no scritch. Before I start hunting for such an expensive brush, I would like to make sure it will work for me!

For the record I use and enjoy The Varlet, Wiborg White Badger, Simpson SilverTip and Romera Manchurian. I've found these brushes to fit my preference of medium backbone/density, soft tips, good splay and good flaw through.
On the other hand I've used M&F, Rooney 2 band, Simpson 3 band Best, Paladin etc... and I haven't totally enjoyed them due to either too much backbone, short lofts, too much scrub or poor flaw through!
FWIW, I prefer knots in the 22-24mm range!

Thanks for the help.. Please feel free to post pics of your Plisson brushes  Biggrin they are always a pleasure to look at whether two or three band.

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 03-20-2017, 12:39 PM
#2
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
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Plisson 2 band HMW is almost impossible to find these days. After 6 months searching I finally got one used size 16 HMW . Easy become the best brush in my stable with all quality the Plisson is known. Absolutely amazing knot ,with good backbone and silky tips, zero scritch and very comfortable horn handle. If you find one don't hesitate to buy. The current 3 bands knots are total disaster, and shedding is very common issues . I'm in process of returning my second 3 band HMW size 12 which I received as replacement of previous shedder.
As far as I know Plisson doesn't produce 2 bands knots anymore, simply they don't have this hair. You can find new size 20 HMW which is to big and to expensive. So go for it, it is worth every penny .



Good luck!

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 03-20-2017, 12:57 PM
#3
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Funny that the websites selling Plisson brushes show them with 2 band hair but have a disclaimer in the description saying that the brush you receive may be 3 band. 

I don't know. Seems like a switcheroo to me.

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 03-20-2017, 01:08 PM
#4
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
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(03-20-2017, 12:57 PM)bakerbarber Wrote: Funny that the websites selling Plisson brushes show them with 2 band hair but have a disclaimer in the description saying that the brush you receive may be 3 band. 


I don't know. Seems like a switcheroo to me.

What is the name of this website?

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 03-20-2017, 01:27 PM
#5
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[Image: ec738b8853eb95749e0f089aeb1ed273.jpg]


This one is 5 or 6 years old. It's a 2 band HMW 16 blonde horn. I purchased it about 2 years ago on the BST. It has some of the softest, silkiest tips with a medium backbone. A very nice splay and flow through due to the long loft It's fantastic when using painting strokes and if your really paying attention you may detect an ever so slight scritch when rotating. IMO It's a beauty to look at and a stellar performer. I would highly recommend it if you can find one on the BST. I can only imagine what the mythical vintage ones are like.


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 03-20-2017, 01:55 PM
#6
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The sad truth about Plisson brushes is they are so inconsistent that you can't purchase one sight unseen with any confidence. Lucky any vendor I've ever purchased one from is happy to take a photo of the actual brush they have up for sale. Old Plisson hair was magical, new Plisson hair, for me anyway, leaves much to be desired.


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 03-20-2017, 03:35 PM
#7
  • Barrylu
  • Senior Member
  • Portland OR
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I have and had 4 Plison HMW I sold the 20. The 10 shed badly and I sold it for the horn handle alone. I still have a 12 and a 16 I think the 16 is starting to shed. I got over a year out of each brush before they began shedding. I love the feel of the brush but am pissed at the shedding issue. Plisson will not stand behined the brush. I would sell my two remaining brushes but I am afraid they might start shedding on the new owner.
[Image: bV1SceM.jpg]

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 03-20-2017, 03:50 PM
#8
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
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(03-20-2017, 01:27 PM)cdude62 Wrote: [Image: ec738b8853eb95749e0f089aeb1ed273.jpg]


This one is 5 or 6 years old. It's a 2 band HMW 16 blonde horn. I purchased it about 2 years ago on the BST. It has some of the softest, silkiest tips with a medium backbone. A very nice splay and flow through due to the long loft It's fantastic when using painting strokes and if your really paying attention you may detect an ever so slight scritch when rotating. IMO It's a beauty to look at and a stellar performer. I would highly recommend it if you can find one on the BST. I can only imagine what the mythical vintage ones are like.


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What a beauty ! Thank you for sharing!

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 03-20-2017, 04:27 PM
#9
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Plisson is the only top tier brush I don't own.  I've wanted to get one, but have held back precisely because of the types of issues raised in this thread.  Sad to see such a great brand decline like this.

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 03-20-2017, 05:54 PM
#10
  • German
  • Simpson 2 Band Aficionado
  • USA
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 03-20-2017, 06:13 PM
#11
  • MaxP
  • Senior Member
  • Madison, WI
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(03-20-2017, 01:55 PM)merkur man Wrote: The sad truth about Plisson brushes is they are so inconsistent that you can't purchase one sight unseen with any confidence. Lucky any vendor I've ever purchased one from is happy to take a photo of the actual brush they have up for sale. Old Plisson hair was magical, new Plisson hair, for me anyway, leaves much to be desired.


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How true this is. 

I've used a two band Plisson several years ago.  And I owned another a couple years ago (for a rather short period of time).  They look quite nice.  And vastly underperform compared to a number of other brands.  I'd gladly own a Shavemac 2 band silvertip over a Plisson.  As usual, YMMV.

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 03-20-2017, 06:22 PM
#12
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thanks for all the replies gentlemen... very much appreciated! Rather than quoting every post, i'll do this;

Bony- Exactly my point! The 3 bands I've used were really nothing special at all! How long have you had the size 16? did you buy it new? based on barrylu's comment below, have you had any shedding problems with this one? Please post a pic of your brush, would love to see it

bakerbarber- I am curious which websites you are referring to. I've only checked Plisson's website and they only seem to have a 2 band HMW knot in the plexi handle but absolutely no description. i've emailed them about this but of course no answer....

cdude62- That is very pretty Sir. it's good to know that the brush is soft with medium backbone. This certainly helps! I am not even going to bother looking into the vintage ones, too much of trouble. Have you experienced any shedding problems? This is my biggest concern with these brushes given their reputation!

Nathan- I totally agree, i've done some research and it all confirms your point. Very inconsistent, to me it's the difference between a great brush maker like Simpson and someone who used to be great like Plisson. Despite this I still find them very beautiful! 
This is a good recommendation, if i do find a vendor selling these brushes I will make sure they send pictures before purchasing. 

Barrylu- OMG.. awesome lineup! Love the horn handles, though I prefer resin for durability reasons. Still, horn is absolutely fantastic looking and exotic! I think anything larger than size 16 would be too big for my taste.. ideally size 12 or 14 would be best, I would assume at high lofts these knots really open up and act bigger than they really are? I could be wrong about this.
I am sorry to hear about this shedding problem you are experiencing. This is precisely why I started this thread and I am very thankful you shared your honest opinion and your experience. No body enjoys a shedding knot. The fact that Plisson doesn't stand behind their product is very poor IMO. From my understanding, shaving brushes is Plisson's bread and butter. Bugs me that they have gotten to this point over the years. Your post makes me rethink the whole thing honestly!!
Besides the knot construction issues, how do you like the performance and face feel?

TheLegalRazor- same here! too much trouble to obtain and too much of a risk given the cost!


Again, thanks for all the replies. According to Plisson's website, it looks like they have a couple of European White knots in 2 band. I am just not sure I'll enjoy the softness of this hair grade. From my understanding it's more scrubby than HMW. 
Based on everything everyone said, I am starting to shy away from this brush. Hopefully more feedback will convince me otherwise   Cool

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 03-20-2017, 07:19 PM
#13
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
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This is my size 16 HMW .Once again great brush, no shedding problem at all . Bought it last year  , used from BST on another forum. If you find brush like this go for it .
[Image: cZfT4B7.jpg]
Family photo with size 12 bought new but shedder , returned back to France !
[Image: sQoPcw9.jpg]
This is the only brush 2band  Plisson produced last year but size 18 . 
Was offered to me ,but to big for my liking .
[Image: nykGilJ.jpg]

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 03-20-2017, 07:28 PM
#14
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(03-20-2017, 07:19 PM)Bony Wrote: This is my size 16 HMW .Once again great brush, no shedding problem at all . Bought it last year  , used from BST on another forum. If you find brush like this go for it .
[Image: cZfT4B7.jpg]
Family photo with size 12 bought new but shedder , returned back to France !
[Image: sQoPcw9.jpg]
This is the only brush 2band  Plisson produced last year but size 18 . 
Was offered to me ,but to big for my liking .
[Image: nykGilJ.jpg]


Thanks for the pics Bony. I think you did well not going for that size 18, I am no expert but I can see many black hairs!
Your size 16 looks VERY nice however, great looking knot that indeed must be a joy to use... now this is what I am talking about! I can certainly tell you that if I find a plisson looking like this I am definitely jumping on it
Not knocking on your brush, but I can't see how Plisson QC could sell this size 12 and label it "WHITE" not too impressed

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 03-20-2017, 07:37 PM
#15
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(03-20-2017, 01:55 PM)merkur man Wrote: The sad truth about Plisson brushes is they are so inconsistent that you can't purchase one sight unseen with any confidence. Lucky any vendor I've ever purchased one from is happy to take a photo of the actual brush they have up for sale. Old Plisson hair was magical, new Plisson hair, for me anyway, leaves much to be desired.


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BINGO!!!!! One I had in late 2007...HMW #12 pictured on far right.... Best brush I ever never should have sold. GREAT horn.

One I bought last year...#12 also HMW in horn..... 12 thumbs down....a freakin MOP.

(the one in the middle was purchased in Cannes in 1972....I shouldn'thave sold it either....oh well, my newly acquired $40 Ye Olde Apothecary Badger is more my speed these days)
[Image: M2TBjIF.jpg][Image: 2zaKsFt.jpg]

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 03-20-2017, 07:42 PM
#16
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Fortunately I have never encountered any shedding problems. What's also interesting is this was my first brush purchase going into it completely blind. I really didn't research this brand at the time. Purchased purely on looks. (So naive). I still own it so there has to be something said for that. Along with 19 other brands.
I tend not to compare to others. I like to enjoy the characteristics and qualities each have to offer. If your really interested I would recommend waiting to see what the BST has to offer. Post a WTB. They do come up on various forums. Would I buy new ? Definitely not.


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 03-21-2017, 05:05 AM
#17
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(03-20-2017, 07:37 PM)minimalist Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 01:55 PM)merkur man Wrote: The sad truth about Plisson brushes is they are so inconsistent that you can't purchase one sight unseen with any confidence. Lucky any vendor I've ever purchased one from is happy to take a photo of the actual brush they have up for sale. Old Plisson hair was magical, new Plisson hair, for me anyway, leaves much to be desired.


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BINGO!!!!! One I had in late 2007...HMW #12 pictured on far right.... Best brush I ever never should have sold. GREAT horn.

One I bought last year...#12 also HMW in horn..... 12 thumbs down....a freakin MOP.

(the one in the middle was purchased in Cannes in 1972....I shouldn'thave sold it either....oh well, my newly acquired $40 Ye Olde Apothecary Badger is more my speed these days)
[Image: M2TBjIF.jpg][Image: 2zaKsFt.jpg]

WOWW!! both brushes, middle and far right are absolutely stunning. The black horn one is very special! what a beautiful brush! it's really too bad they don't make them like they used to! I wonder how these brushes held up over the years.

(03-20-2017, 07:42 PM)cdude62 Wrote: Fortunately I have never encountered any shedding problems. What's also interesting is this was my first brush purchase going into it completely blind. I really didn't research this brand at the time. Purchased purely on looks. (So naive). I still own it so there has to be something said for that. Along with 19 other brands.
I tend not to compare to others.  I like to enjoy the characteristics and qualities each have to offer. If your really interested I would recommend waiting to see what the BST has to offer. Post a WTB. They do come up on various forums. Would I buy new ? Definitely not.


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that's good to hear and I hope you never have a shedding problem with your brush. thanks for your help and recommendation, I may have to take this route. The only reason i would buy new is for the warranty... probably pay a lot initially but at least i can hold a vendor accountable if things go wrong!

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 03-21-2017, 06:08 AM
#18
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
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(03-21-2017, 05:05 AM)snowman Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 07:37 PM)minimalist Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 01:55 PM)merkur man Wrote: The sad truth about Plisson brushes is they are so inconsistent that you can't purchase one sight unseen with any confidence. Lucky any vendor I've ever purchased one from is happy to take a photo of the actual brush they have up for sale. Old Plisson hair was magical, new Plisson hair, for me anyway, leaves much to be desired.


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BINGO!!!!! One I had in late 2007...HMW #12 pictured on far right.... Best brush I ever never should have sold. GREAT horn.

One I bought last year...#12 also HMW in horn..... 12 thumbs down....a freakin MOP.

(the one in the middle was purchased in Cannes in 1972....I shouldn'thave sold it either....oh well, my newly acquired $40 Ye Olde Apothecary Badger is more my speed these days)
[Image: M2TBjIF.jpg][Image: 2zaKsFt.jpg]

WOWW!! both brushes, middle and far right are absolutely stunning. The black horn one is very special! what a beautiful brush! it's really too bad they don't make them like they used to! I wonder how these brushes held up over the years.

(03-20-2017, 07:42 PM)cdude62 Wrote: Fortunately I have never encountered any shedding problems. What's also interesting is this was my first brush purchase going into it completely blind. I really didn't research this brand at the time. Purchased purely on looks. (So naive). I still own it so there has to be something said for that. Along with 19 other brands.
I tend not to compare to others.  I like to enjoy the characteristics and qualities each have to offer. If your really interested I would recommend waiting to see what the BST has to offer. Post a WTB. They do come up on various forums. Would I buy new ? Definitely not.


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that's good to hear and I hope you never have a shedding problem with your brush. thanks for your help and recommendation, I may have to take this route. The only reason i would buy new is for the warranty... probably pay a lot initially but at least i can hold a vendor accountable if things go wrong!
That was my thoughts and let me ask. In my case I bought new Plisson brush size 12 HMW from authorized retailer in Canada, when the problems began I contacted him and he was very nice and communicated with Plisson on my behalf. After 5 months I got new brush ,and I was happy for a only 2 weeks. Now I have replacement brush who's also shedder , even worse. Sound crazy right? I will try to communicate with Plisson, and my chances of getting new brush from Plisson directly are equal to winning the NY State LOTTERY. My suggestion is to look at GOGGLE for HMW , this is how I found my brush. Be prepared for long run , and if you are lucky to find one you can always can hold the seller accountable if any problems .

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 03-21-2017, 02:43 PM
#19
  • joe j
  • Member
  • South Florida
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I own a size 14 HMW(not a rare two band) that a bought several years ago here on BS&T. The purchase was made from a member who is very reputable and has, imo, extensive knowledge of Plisson brushes.
The brush shed a bristle or two a few years back but has  thankfully been a non shedder ever since. It is an amazing brush!Unlike any other I have ever used.I was so used to two band and manchurian brushes with much smaller lofts that it took some time to get used to what I can only describe as the softest face feel of any brush I have ever used.Painting strokes only.The brush is no doubt expensive.It is also iconic.I think everyone who can score one should  either try one out or own one.It's a shame that Plisson's QC is so horrible.I have never owned or used any of Plisson's other hair grades beside the HMW I currently own.
I used mine this morning with MDC vetiver soap.The shave was luxurious.[Image: VreXIYY.jpg]

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 03-22-2017, 01:26 PM
#20
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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I have tried 3 vintage Plisson HMW : 2 which were 3 band and one two band.The 3 of them were absolutely SUPERB.And basically , 3 of the best of the best that I have tried in many of these years.

The closest hairs that I have found to be an equivalent with those Plisson vintage ones have been the WSP HMW 3 band (for the old Plisson 3 band HMW) and , take this also with a pinch of salt , the Vie Long European white ( 2 band) when they get a good batch of that hair.Even the knot shape of the Vie Long resembled the vintage Plisson 2 band HMW , but , again , they need to get a good batch of the European White hair.

The current Plisson HMW are just a shadow of what the vintage ones used to be.

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