06-14-2017, 12:31 PM
#1
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I've kept myself at arm's length about the 2 band vs. 3 band badger hair debate...mostly to avoid SBAD but also because I didn't think there was really that much difference. But now I think I want to do a video and/or article about it. What pair of brushes do you think would most dramatically show the difference between 2 band and 3 band badger brushes?

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 06-14-2017, 12:38 PM
#2
  • Rufus
  • Senior Member
  • Greater Toronto Area
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Thater and shavemac; I have 3-band and 2-band from both and there is a definite difference between each maker's grade of hair. VP Leonhardy   2-band and 3-band are also quite different.

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 06-14-2017, 01:05 PM
#3
  • Mr_Smartepants
  • Senior Member
  • Cambridgeshire, UK (CONUS post address)
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I think the least expensive way for you to compare the two different knots in an apples-to-apples comparison would be to get a pair of Maseto Shaving (formerly LS) 30-mm "Chubby-3 killers".  
I've owned both of these MS 2 & 3 band and I personally prefer the 2-band variant.
Just search ebay for "Maseto Shaving" or seller ID "classicshop2012" and you'll find them.
Fantastic value for money.  You can get 9 of these brushes for less than the cost of a single Chubby-3 Manchurian.
There's an "appreciation" thread here: http://shavenook.com/showthread.php?tid=48654

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 06-14-2017, 01:05 PM
#4
  • Viking
  • Artisan - Soap & Cosmetics
  • Ames, Iowa
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A second vote for Shavemac, the 2 and 3 bands are significantly different from one another, at least the ones I have.

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 06-14-2017, 01:15 PM
#5
  • doc47
  • Senior Member
  • Northern Arizona
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I would chose a Paladin for the 2-band because you will get specific information about the knot. That being said, I think you are on a fools errand. The number of bands a knot has only tells a small part of that knots story. How big the knot is, the depth it is set at and where the badger was sourced all contribute to that knots feel, etc. Have fun with your project though.

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 06-14-2017, 05:40 PM
#6
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Use a pair of Thater 26mm 4125 models in 2 and 3 band.

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 06-14-2017, 06:09 PM
#7
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(06-14-2017, 05:40 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: Use a pair of Thater 26mm 4125 models in 2 and 3 band.

Perfect!

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 06-14-2017, 06:18 PM
#8
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(06-14-2017, 06:09 PM)TexBilly Wrote:
(06-14-2017, 05:40 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: Use a pair of Thater 26mm 4125 models in 2 and 3 band.

Perfect!

And the 2-band models happen to be on sale right now at BullGoose! Aaaaa

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 06-14-2017, 09:28 PM
#9
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Interesting difference to look at. But, in the name of systematicity, generalisability and consistency, given that there's about as big internal variance as between the two types, are you sure it makes sense to go for two extremes? (Then you could just as well give the extremes WITHIN each group a go and look at the difference.) How useful is that for your readers/viewers? To me it makes more sense to go for effectively the mean specimens of each of the two types, meaning that you use several of each type, so e.g. four different two bands and four different three bands. Perhaps even aim for pairings in size, producer, etc. That allows for a more reliable generalisation of traits of the two types. Just a thought.

Edit: typo.

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 06-15-2017, 08:41 AM
#10
  • blzrfn
  • Butterscotch Bandit
  • Vancouver USA
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There are some excellent side-by-sides that should display a gross difference between the two:

Budget minded:
Frank Shaving Silvertip vs. Finest (MS or LS would be excellent options as well)

Middle Priced:
Shavemac Silvertip vs 2-band Silvertip (Thater would be an excellent substitute as well)

High End:
Simpson Chubby 2 Super vs Manchurian  (Plisson HMW would have been fun too, unfortunately 2-band HMW hair is currently not available from Plisson)

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 06-15-2017, 10:39 AM
#11
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Another vote for Thater here , good general comparison as the knots are not anything to extreme that separate themselves as being unique amongst its classification. Knots like a Simpson Manchurian or Shavemac D01 wouldn't be a accurate general comparison as they are unique amongst two bands etc.

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 06-15-2017, 12:25 PM
#12
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(06-15-2017, 10:39 AM)ultra~nova Wrote: Another vote for Thater here , good general comparison as the knots are not anything to extreme that separate themselves as being unique amongst its classification. Knots like a Simpson Manchurian or Shavemac D01 wouldn't be a accurate general comparison as they are unique amongst two bands etc.

A very good point Corey.  Those knots are not representative of 2-bands in general.

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 06-15-2017, 01:33 PM
#13
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Agree the Thater comparison is the best way to go as you are controlling other factors: same knot size, model, etc.

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 06-15-2017, 04:05 PM
#14
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I think it depends on what you're looking for in a brush. Eight or nine years ago if you bought a Simpson Super two band, or a Rooney Finest they were scritchy. Now the Rooney Finest is gone, and Simpson Super or Manchurians are not scritchy IME. Maybe 'scrubby', maybe not, but not scritchy.

I've had at least 5 Thater two bands in different lofts and knot diameters looking for a scritchy Thater. Sold them all and convinced it is a fool's errand. If you want Gel tips with backbone Thater two bands are brilliant.

Shavemac is the current king of the hill AFAIC, in the are of SCRITCH ! Tell Bernd you want a scritchy DO-1 two band and you'll have one that will rival the glory scritch days of Simpson Super/Manchurian (Somerset years) or the Rooney Finest of bygone days. Lee Sabini says the bristle for the old FInests is no longer obtainable.

OTOH, you can get two band Shavemacs that are also great backbone and gel tips, from what I've heard. Again, email Bernd and state your preferences. He will steer you in the right direction. For me if it ain't got scritch it doesn't stay in my den. YMMV. 

Before I forget, Plisson High Mountain White and European White can be scritchy IME, but not always. Again, IME.

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 06-16-2017, 05:56 PM
#15
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(06-14-2017, 09:28 PM)Halvor Wrote: Interesting difference to look at. But, in the name of systematicity, generalisability and consistency, given that there's about as big internal variance as between the two types, are you sure it makes sense to go for two extremes? (Then you could just as well give the extremes WITHIN each group a go and look at the difference.) How useful is that for your readers/viewers? To me it makes more sense to go for effectively the mean specimens of each of the two types, meaning that you use several of each type, so e.g. four different two bands and four different three bands. Perhaps even aim for pairings in size, producer, etc. That allows for a more reliable generalisation of traits of the two types. Just a thought.

Edit: typo.

Thanks, I need to consider that more carefully than I had been.

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 06-16-2017, 05:58 PM
#16
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(06-15-2017, 04:05 PM)JimmyH Wrote: ...Shavemac is the current king of the hill AFAIC, in the are of SCRITCH ! Tell Bernd you want a scritchy DO-1 two band and you'll have one that will rival the glory scritch days of Simpson Super/Manchurian (Somerset years) or the Rooney Finest of bygone days. Lee Sabini says the bristle for the old FInests is no longer obtainable....

Yes, I'm leaning towards Shavemac (I read somewhere that Shavemac OEM's for Thater?  Can someone confirm?).  I'll email Bernd for his opinion, thanks.

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 06-16-2017, 06:05 PM
#17
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(06-16-2017, 05:58 PM)mantic59 Wrote:
(06-15-2017, 04:05 PM)JimmyH Wrote: ...Shavemac is the current king of the hill AFAIC, in the are of SCRITCH ! Tell Bernd you want a scritchy DO-1 two band and you'll have one that will rival the glory scritch days of Simpson Super/Manchurian (Somerset years) or the Rooney Finest of bygone days. Lee Sabini says the bristle for the old FInests is no longer obtainable....

Yes, I'm leaning towards Shavemac (I read somewhere that Shavemac OEM's for Thater?  Can someone confirm?).  I'll email Bernd for his opinion, thanks.

They are both in Germany, but I would doubt that. A friend from Germany, who introduced Thater to SRD, says they are a very old company. I could be mistaken though, things change.

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 06-16-2017, 07:14 PM
#18
  • Journeyman
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Another thing to consider is what are you thinking and seeking when you say "3 band"? My first brush was a Rooney 2/1 in Super Silvertip that was gel tip soft with little backbone for that "fluffy cloud" effect. My Simpson Duke 3 has more backbone and not what I'd call scritch (I associate that word with prickly), but a nice scrubby texture that I love. I also have a Vie Long 3 band silvertip in a bulb shape and beehive handle that was a limited edition from Bullgoose. Even though it is silvertip like the Rooney, it has tons of backbone and great scrub.

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 06-17-2017, 05:53 AM
#19
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To me a three band brush would again be a silver tip knot much like what you see from Thater. It's a consistent standard VS adding pure badger to silver tip to achieve this performance etc. Many if not all the traditional European three band knots have this sort of hair.

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 06-18-2017, 05:50 PM
#20
  • Journeyman
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Well it seems that per the suggestions what will really be measured is the difference between 3 band silvertip and 2 band silvertip brushes, which is fine and will demonstrate differences in 3 band and 2 band brushes with a specific type of hair, but if the article purports to ascribe the differences to all 3 band and 2 band brushes, then it will be misleading. For instance, a Thater 2 band silvertip may have more backbone than a Thater 3 band silvertip but not a Simpson Chubby 2 in best badger. I think the distinction is important because my Rooney in 2/1 Super Silvertip was my first brush, and at the time I incorrectly thought all 3 bands were floppy.

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