10-26-2019, 01:47 PM
#21
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(10-25-2019, 04:04 AM)Tester28 Wrote: I have a Koraat razor on order...it's my very first and I've also been keen to learn how to 
keep the edge shave ready at all times instead of waiting for it to dull. My head spins
when I read of all the gear people use to maintain there straights and I absolutely
have no room for multiple stones.

So I reached out to the manufacturer himself for advice....he advised that a Naniwa
3K would be fine to set the bevel and a 10K to finish...and a few laps on a chrome oxide
pasted cotton strop. Folowed by a proper stropping.

I find this do-able so I'll be trying it....and adapting from there.

A lot of learning to hone is trying different stones and techniques to determine what works best for you.  The 1k is probably the most commonly used stone for setting a bevel.  Going from a 1k or 3k to a 10k, without an intermediate hone, is a big jump.  Regarding a finishing hone, the 12k is well regarded.  A typical progression is 1k, 5k, 8k and 12k.  However, try using the 3k and 10k to see if it works for you and you get good edges.   

Finishing on CrOx is a good choice.  The option here is what substrate to use for the CrOx.  A pasted cotton strop is one option.  I've gotten good results from CrOx on felt and balsa.  In this photo, there is a paddle strop with pasted felt on the bottom, and a bench strop with pasted balsa on the top.  Once again, see what works best for you.


[Image: QzSsLrP.jpg]

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 10-26-2019, 03:28 PM
#22
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(10-26-2019, 01:47 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote:
(10-25-2019, 04:04 AM)Tester28 Wrote: I have a Koraat razor on order...it's my very first and I've also been keen to learn how to 
keep the edge shave ready at all times instead of waiting for it to dull. My head spins
when I read of all the gear people use to maintain there straights and I absolutely
have no room for multiple stones.

So I reached out to the manufacturer himself for advice....he advised that a Naniwa
3K would be fine to set the bevel and a 10K to finish...and a few laps on a chrome oxide
pasted cotton strop. Folowed by a proper stropping.

I find this do-able so I'll be trying it....and adapting from there.

A lot of learning to hone is trying different stones and techniques to determine what works best for you.  The 1k is probably the most commonly used stone for setting a bevel.  Going from a 1k or 3k to a 10k, without an intermediate hone, is a big jump.  Regarding a finishing hone, the 12k is well regarded.  A typical progression is 1k, 5k, 8k and 12k.  However, try using the 3k and 10k to see if it works for you and you get good edges.   

Finishing on CrOx is a good choice.  The option here is what substrate to use for the CrOx.  A pasted cotton strop is one option.  I've gotten good results from CrOx on felt and balsa.  In this photo, there is a paddle strop with pasted felt on the bottom, and a bench strop with pasted balsa on the top.  Once again, see what works best for you.


[Image: QzSsLrP.jpg]

 That’s a great way to describe honing, especially trying different methods.

I for one started on a used set of Naniwa and quickly progressed to Shapton Glass but I went thru lots of phases like all synthetic, all natural and a mix of both and finally after lots of trials and errors my go to progression is from 4k-JNAT ( 4, 8, 12 and JNAT with two slurries ) will go back to 1K if needed but hate those scratches then depending I may give the final edge a few light laps on some .5 and .25 paste

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 10-26-2019, 06:11 PM
#23
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(10-26-2019, 03:28 PM)Panther308 Wrote:  I for one started on a used set of Naniwa and quickly progressed to Shapton Glass but I went thru lots of phases like all synthetic, all natural and a mix of both and finally after lots of trials and errors my go to progression is from 4k-JNAT ( 4, 8, 12 and JNAT with two slurries ) will go back to 1K if needed but hate those scratches then depending I may give the final edge a few light laps on some .5 and .25 paste

I've been getting good results from .50 and .25 diamond on balsa.

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 10-27-2019, 10:01 PM
#24
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I think I prefer smearing green crox on a cotton stop which has a little 'give' while stropping,
as opposed to a rigid paddle strop or balsa wood slab.

The only problem is I dont think all green crox pastes are consistent in the grit they offer.
Any idea which brand would work best after honing on a 10K Naniwa?
And is there any need to get the red and black pastes as well?

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 10-30-2019, 01:57 PM
#25
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I don’t use straight razors, but I do own 4 Naniwa Chosera whetstones.
A 400 grit, a 1000 grit, a 3000 grit and a 5000 grit and finally a Leather honing plate.

I also use a flattening stone.

I sharpen my own kitchen knives and have a good selection of Miyabi and Wüsthof kitchen knives.

I do wonder why there is a need for finer grit than 5000 even for straight razors though ?
A piece of leather equals 8000-12000 grit on a whetstone.

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 10-31-2019, 11:45 AM
#26
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(10-27-2019, 10:01 PM)Tester28 Wrote: I think I prefer smearing green crox on a cotton stop which has a little 'give' while stropping,
as opposed to a rigid paddle strop or balsa wood slab.

The only problem is I dont think all green crox pastes are consistent in the grit they offer.
Any idea which brand would work best after honing on a 10K Naniwa?
And is there any need to get the red and black pastes as well?

If CrOx on a cotton strop is what works best for you, go with it.

There is indeed an issue as to what grit you're getting with CrOx.  Vendors of sharpening supplies sell bars of CrOx with no indication as to grit.  For years I've used this CrOx .5 micron spray from Straight Razor Designs.

[Image: nuOMXcX.jpg]

Unfortunately, SRD closed when Lynn Abrams retired.  I don't know of another source of CrOx with a reliable .5 micron grit.  Perhaps someone else on the forum does.  If you're open to diamond spray or paste, there are a number of reliable sources for that in .5, .25 and .10 micron.

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 11-02-2019, 12:57 PM
#27
  • shadowman12
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  • Utrecht the Netherlands
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(07-22-2017, 05:04 PM)Panther308 Wrote: Jamie,

Today I managed to get up a tad early and thought more and more about the article I had read so I took the Boker King Cutter that I used for todays shave and ran it over my 4K Shapton GS stone to reset a firm bevel, I have recently have been looking at edges under a loupe coming of the 1K and have finally accepted that a 1K is really not necessary unless the edge needs a lot of work as it really leaves deep scratches that take some work to get out.


After the 4K I took it to a Narutaki Asagi with a heavy slurry and worked it pretty hard for about 10-15 mins and finished on almost straight water and then did 25 heavy laps on flax linen and 50-60 on leather and then I usually do an HHT but this time I said no just shave and see how it shaves and using a quality soap with good prep I was really pleased with the shave, no post shave issues at all and after I dried the blade and stropped and then did the HHT and it was a pretty solid 3 so now I guess I get to see how long the edge and great shaves last, oh and it only took about 20 mins from start to finish on the edge.

Maybe I should take the same razor and shave off the 1k, 4K, 8K and then finisher and compare how the shaves go... I aslo am still considering adding a Shapton 16K to my small arsenal so I can offer a full synthetic progression and well as a full natural progression, currently my regime is 4/8K and JNAT or Coticule finisher so I am curious how much the 16K would compare to a JNAT edge which I assume to be around 11-13K maybe possible a tad higher.

(09-11-2019, 12:42 PM)Gabe Wrote:
(09-10-2019, 11:49 AM)Ols67 Wrote: Gents,

Could one have a hone master set the bevel, put a hair splitting edge on the razor, strop it well after each use, and then use something like a Zulu Grey after every 15-20 shaves or so...to simply refresh the edge to make sure it stays hair splittin sharp?  I like the idea of mastering one stone to just keep the razor sharp once a master has done their initial work to get the edge right.  I just dont know if that would be effective.

If that would work how many laps on the hone?  

What pressure to use when running the razor along the stone?

Thanks?

Vr

Matt

This is exactly what I do. I send out to a professional and then refresh myself. I only have a finishing Jnat, a Shobudani Mizu Asagi. I usually go 30-45 shaves before refreshing. I've used this method for over 2 years now. 

You have to maintain the correct bevel. Meaning, if the pro uses tape, you use tape. To keep things uniform, all of my razors are honed with one layer of tape. When it's time to refresh, I tape the spine. It's very simple.

I only use the weight of the razor. No pressure. 

It took me a few attempts, but I get good results now.


In my opnion is best to go from a 8k to a Jnat finisher. Start with heavy slurry and then dilute the slurry a couple of times and then finish on only water that gives the best edges. Any grit higher than that won't give better results. TomoNagura/Keith also confirmed this to me, and is quite an expert in this area.

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 11-22-2019, 06:15 PM
#28
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(09-16-2019, 02:20 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: Enjoy your new honing journey Matt.  This will not be your last stone!

JHC Ricardo...boy were you right! I have assembled a bunch of synthetic and natural stones, they are all lapped, flat, and ready to be used!

I haven’t shaved since Tuesday, and I am going to try to progressively hone a straight tomorrow for the first time...1K through the finisher!

The progression is going to be:

Chosera 1k
Shapton Glass 4K
Naniwa Snow White 8K
Purple Welsh
Zulu Grey
Horse Hide Strop

I am excited to see how it goes!

Vr

Matt

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 11-22-2019, 06:38 PM
#29
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Good luck Matt!  

What's the reason for the Purple Welsh before the Zulu Grey?

I know you already have some experience with the Zulu Grey.  You may want to limit how many variables you introduce at this stage.  You could try going from the 8k to the Zulu Grey, then assessing where you are.

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 11-23-2019, 04:38 AM
#30
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(11-22-2019, 06:38 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: Good luck Matt!  

What's the reason for the Purple Welsh before the Zulu Grey?

I know you already have some experience with the Zulu Grey.  You may want to limit how many variables you introduce at this stage.  You could try going from the 8k to the Zulu Grey, then assessing where you are.

Ricardo,

Hello!

I was reading on another forum that guys using the ZG after an 8K weren’t thrilled. However, it seems that folks using it after their cotis, thuringians, etc were finding that it improved the edges...sort of as a post finisher type stone for 15-30 laps.

Any thoughts on the merits of that?

The PW and ZG are both ready to go, sonits easy to adjust fire to the plan!

Vr

Matt

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 11-23-2019, 06:06 AM
#31
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(11-23-2019, 04:38 AM)Ols67 Wrote:
(11-22-2019, 06:38 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: Good luck Matt!  

What's the reason for the Purple Welsh before the Zulu Grey?

Ricardo,

Hello!

I was reading on another forum that guys using the ZG after an 8K weren’t thrilled.  However, it seems that folks using it after their cotis, thuringians, etc were finding that it improved the edges...sort of as a post finisher type stone for 15-30 laps.

Any thoughts on the merits of that?

The PW and ZG are both ready to go, sonits easy to adjust fire to the plan!

Vr

Matt

Matt, it's all about trial and error, and finding what works best for you.  I use syntheric hones.  I have used a coticule, but otherwise am not knowledgeable about naturals.  My comments are about methadology and not the actual stones you're using.

If I was new to natural finishers, I would try 8k to ZG first, then 8k to PW, then 8k to PW and ZG.  This way, I would gain an understanding of how each stone performs.  If I went straight to  both PW and ZG and didn't like the results, it would be difficult for me to isolate the problem.  

For me, it's about not introducing more than one new variable at a time.  That's why I  used the same razor while first learning honing.   It's just the approach which works best for me.

However, there is no right and wrong way here.  Go with whatever you want to and adjust from there.

Let us know!

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 11-23-2019, 08:15 AM
#32
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So I figured out the loupe and right light angle to really really see the bevel near the edge.  

Unfortunately, there were two little dots that appear to be corrosion...not on the dead edge, but on the bevel close enough to the edge of the dog of a MK 32.  I couldn’t see it with my eye, or by getting the reflection from the light.

So I said, Just start over on a different razor. So I set the bevel on the Brian Brown with G10 ivory scales and turquoise wedge.  I did the thumbnail test, which it passed, did another 20 very light x-strokes, and did the DOC226 cherry tomato test with a grape which it passed. Finally, I did the tap test, and the razor was solid...no rocking!

Looks good to me...the the wife yelled at me and told me to help clean up!

I will move to the 4K later today!

Vr

Matt

[Image: ptMyQlg.jpg][Image: Do4TKJs.jpg]

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 11-23-2019, 01:33 PM
#33
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Thanks to everyone that has posted about honing, I was able to hone my first straight razor today!

I sharpened a Brian Brown razor without tape.

The progression I used was: kill the edge on a glass jar, 1K Chosera, 4K Shapton Glass, 8K Lobster Stamped White Naniwa, and then I finished on my Zulu Grey.

One thing I did between each honing step was that I stropped on canvas and then leather before moving on to the next stone. I didn’t read to do that...I just figured I would try it to refine the edge as much as possible before advancing in the progression. It makes sense to my little chicken nugget mind!

To test shave it I used Santa Maria Novella cream, and a Paladin Phantasia brush. After the three pass shave I used an alum bar, and Santa Maria Novella aftershave!

There was no burn from the alum, nor was there any from the aftershave. The end result was a very nice, comfortable shave with no tugging on the four day growth, no nicks or weepers, and no irritation. I can’t ask much more than that!

I hope that everyone is having s great weekend!

Vr

Matt

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 11-23-2019, 01:44 PM
#34
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 11-23-2019, 01:59 PM
#35
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[img]blob:http://shavenook.com/91e8eb5d-c194-4ad1-9a0c-f4dbd74af813[/img]

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 11-24-2019, 01:38 PM
#36
  • Steve56
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  • Knoxville, TN
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Congrats Matt, you’re on the way. 

One of the biggest errors that beginners make is too much pressure, at least after the bevel set. Straight razor edges are thin and will flex pretty easily even when you can’t feel it, and that degrades the edge. Once your bevel is set, you really don’t need much pressure on synths and reasonably fast naturals. Final finishing strokes should be about as light as you can make them, that effectively increases the fineness of the hone.

The other thing is to develop the muscle memory or technique to make the edge hit the stone evenly heel to toe even when the edge is not straight, and most of them aren’t. This part of honing is just like learning to ride a bicycle, it’s all just practice.

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 11-24-2019, 03:13 PM
#37
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Thanks for the tips Steve! I like the idea of less pressure since these are fine instruments. I was actually second guessing myself regarding the pressure that I was using perhaps being too light, and I was happy to read your thoughts on it.

You watch some folks’ technique on YouTube, and it looks like razor abuse with very very aggressive looking half strokes!

I would rather take my time, and enjoy the process! Steady as she goes!

Vr

Matt

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 11-24-2019, 03:38 PM
#38
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Well done Matt!

There is good advice in Steve's post above.

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 11-25-2019, 06:11 AM
#39
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Regarding pressure, I was given sound advice when I first started and have stuck with it ever since. Begin each stone with pressure similar to using a pencil erasure. When honing full hollows be mindful of flexing the blade, don’t do that. Let your stone do the work. Once your tell-tale sign is achieved then use graduated pressure with diluted slurry until very light controlled pressure with minimal slurry to water only depending on your face feel preference. Good luck!


~Royce

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 11-25-2019, 08:41 AM
#40
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For me when using any stone I treat it like it’s a finishing stone and that how I end it, pressure as stated is the number one killer of a good edge.

I normally don’t even use a 1k unless the edge has damage, I just use my diamond plate to work up a light slurry on the 4K and do a few sets of circles, I concentrate on holding the tang with just two fingers and feel the pressure

On the 8k it’s just some light circles then x strokes and then a JNAT with a tomo slurry

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