08-02-2017, 04:29 PM
#1
User Info
Hi All,

I was wondering if any of our Shave Nook Brush Experts could let me know:

How does changing these 4 parameters in a Brush affect the Brush / Use overall?
 
  • Knot size :  
  • Hair length:
  • Handle diameter :  
  • Handle height :  
 
I've only ever used a Simpsons Duke 3 in Best Badger hair. So I'm trying to figure out if I should try something with *more* Handle height, or shorter? Or a bigger Handle diameter? or the Hair Length a little longer or shorter?
 
I'm guessing longer Hair Length in the Knot = "Floppier" feel?

But what about the other parameters? What's an ideal Handle Diameter? Is there a good "grip" to aim for? Or is it just personal feel? etc.


Thanks!

3 298
Reply
 08-02-2017, 06:24 PM
#2
User Info
Hey bud I'm not an expert at all but really when it comes to brushes it's complete preference of the user . Some people like scrubby brushes some love softer brushes . As far as Handle size it really depends on your hand size and what's comfortable to you . I have larger hands so I generally gravitate towards larger brushes . When it comes to this YMMV .

20 294
Reply
 08-02-2017, 09:57 PM
#3
  • SCOV
  • Active Member
  • Minnesota
User Info
List what you like about the Simpson and what could be improved.  

Most handle parameters depend on personal preferences (like stated above).  There is some logic to knots (face lather, like backbone, fan vs bulb, etc).  More specific info on your shaving would be helpful.  

I have always wanted a Thater brush - BullGoose has nice selection.  Several artisans listed (have purchased from Brad Sears, Paladin, Elite Razor) - they may have time to be helpful.

Thread tittle like "beer lover wants advice on best knot for face lathering"  should get numerous responses.

5 427
Reply
 08-03-2017, 08:44 AM
#4
User Info
* Knot size = the larger the knot, the more face feel you'll experience; the more product you'll use; the longer the time it will take to generate lather; the longer the time it takes to dry

* Hair length (I presume you are implying Loft) = the higher the loft, the less backbone you may encounter (depending on the grade of hair); the opposite would also be true.

* Handle diameter = the larger the diameter, the larger the feel in your hand; this might be a positive or negative depending on the size of your hand; it is all about comfort, for you.

* Handle height = same concept as the diameter, except in a vertical direction; it is all about how comfortable a handle feels in your hand. 

Unfortunately, you won't be able to fully understand all of this unless you try different brushes/knots/handles, but these are general ideas. 
Good luck.  Shy

83 21,110
Reply
 08-03-2017, 11:17 AM
#5
User Info
(08-02-2017, 09:57 PM)SCOV Wrote: List what you like about the Simpson and what could be improved.  

Most handle parameters depend on personal preferences (like stated above).  There is some logic to knots (face lather, like backbone, fan vs bulb, etc).  More specific info on your shaving would be helpful.  

I have always wanted a Thater brush - BullGoose has nice selection.  Several artisans listed (have purchased from Brad Sears, Paladin, Elite Razor) - they may have time to be helpful.

Thread tittle like "beer lover wants advice on best knot for face lathering"  should get numerous responses.

Thanks SCOV and DEdestroyer! Smile

To answer your questions and clarify:

* I bowl lather.
* I've only used bulb-type.

What I like about my current Simpsons Duke 3 in Best Badger and what I'd like to improve:

Likes
* Nice face feel (not scritchy or overly rough)
* Holds a lot of lather well.
* Doesn't seem to be "floppy" (like I hear some people talk about other brushes)

* Seems to be able to build lather at a decent rate? (I don't have a point of comparison.)

Dislikes
* Feels a touch small for the handle. But I'm not sure what an ideal "grip" is. If it's personal preference only, then I need to explore more handle diameters and heights obviously. Right now it feels a touch "small" in diameter and height, but certainly very usable overall (it's my go-to brush right now).
* Lather building takes a while: This is probably more a function of the hard water in my area, but I'm curious if a different brush / hair type will help me build Lather better / faster.

Thanks!

3 298
Reply
 08-03-2017, 11:26 AM
#6
User Info
(08-03-2017, 08:44 AM)celestino Wrote: * Knot size = the larger the knot, the more face feel you'll experience; the more product you'll use; the longer the time it will take to generate lather; the longer the time it takes to dry

* Hair length (I presume you are implying Loft) = the higher the loft, the less backbone you may encounter (depending on the grade of hair); the opposite would also be true.

* Handle diameter = the larger the diameter, the larger the feel in your hand; this might be a positive or negative depending on the size of your hand; it is all about comfort, for you.

* Handle height = same concept as the diameter, except in a vertical direction; it is all about how comfortable a handle feels in your hand. 

Unfortunately, you won't be able to fully understand all of this unless you try different brushes/knots/handles, but these are general ideas. 
Good luck.  Shy

Thanks celestino! Great info!

That's a great tip about Knot Size: I didn't think about that, but it makes sense (the larger the knot, the more product and time to lather, etc.).

For Loft / Hair length of brush: I was thinking of Shavemac Silvertip or Silvertip 2-Band, if that helps with how it might change. Would it get floppier the higher the loft with those types of hairs?

And for the Handle, good to know. I guess I'll have to try more options.

Thanks!

3 298
Reply
 08-03-2017, 03:47 PM
#7
User Info
If I was a bowl latherer I'd opt for a Simpson Polo 8. Not sure of the knot/loft with Simpson nowadays, but the handle is long and the knot/loft are medium. Kind of Goldilocks IMHO ...... IOW ...... just right  Wink

http://www.simpsonshavingbrushes.com/cgi...prod_POLOB

7 237
Reply
 08-03-2017, 05:07 PM
#8
User Info
(08-03-2017, 11:26 AM)shave_knight Wrote: Thanks celestino! Great info!

That's a great tip about Knot Size: I didn't think about that, but it makes sense (the larger the knot, the more product and time to lather, etc.).

For Loft / Hair length of brush: I was thinking of Shavemac Silvertip or Silvertip 2-Band, if that helps with how it might change. Would it get floppier the higher the loft with those types of hairs?

And for the Handle, good to know. I guess I'll have to try more options.

Thanks!

Shavemac's Silvertip 2-Band requires a lower loft as the tips are extremely soft and the knots Bernd constructs generally have moderate backbone, bulbs having more than fans or hybrids. To illustrate, I have a 36 x 60mm Silvertip 2-Band knot and it has moderate backbone, compared to others I have. If you like strong backbone, you need to try Shavemac's D-01 2-Band hair. 
Shavemac's Silvertip is a very economical option, but, for me, it has less backbone than the Silvertip 2-Band, again, unless you get a bulb and set the knot to a lower loft. 

There really is no other way to say this, but you'll have to experiment with a few brushes/knots to understand what you really like, unfortunately, as I can keep offering you my impressions, but they are meaningless until you actually try some brushes/knots. 
Best of luck.

83 21,110
Reply
 08-03-2017, 06:18 PM
#9
User Info
Great thoughts Celestino! I realize I'll have to "suck it up" and just buy a variety of brushes to experiment. Wink  Thanks!

3 298
Reply
 08-03-2017, 06:27 PM
#10
User Info
(08-03-2017, 08:44 AM)celestino Wrote: * Knot size = the larger the knot, the more face feel you'll experience; the more product you'll use; the longer the time it will take to generate lather; the longer the time it takes to dry

* Hair length (I presume you are implying Loft) = the higher the loft, the less backbone you may encounter (depending on the grade of hair); the opposite would also be true.

* Handle diameter = the larger the diameter, the larger the feel in your hand; this might be a positive or negative depending on the size of your hand; it is all about comfort, for you.

* Handle height = same concept as the diameter, except in a vertical direction; it is all about how comfortable a handle feels in your hand. 

Unfortunately, you won't be able to fully understand all of this unless you try different brushes/knots/handles, but these are general ideas. 
Good luck.  Shy

As Celestino states and as I wrote to you in my long PM's - no matter how much you ask, you will not get wiser from advice from dozens of people with different skin type, lather preferences, water hardness, skin sensitivy etc.

You can continue to ask all day long, you will get more and more confused, the more people you ask the same question.

Some hate rough brushes, others love them.
Some face lather, some bowl lather - completely different preferences.

ONLY ONE WAY TO KNOW: BUY & TRY !

24 6,018
Reply
 08-03-2017, 06:54 PM
#11
  • SCOV
  • Active Member
  • Minnesota
User Info
Some good advice above on the knots and brush makers.  

We have some matching likes in a brush.  Paladin's recent knots are getting good reviews (including me).  I like my recent Elite Razor purchase also.  For me, handle diameter is not a big issue - most handles with a 24-26mm knot and not called "stubby" seem to be in my ideal range.  I face lather and like the "bottom part" of the handle to supply good grip.  I do not bowl lather but guessing a slightly taller handle might work better.  

Might be good time to try artisan brush maker.

5 427
Reply
 08-03-2017, 07:00 PM
#12
User Info
In general:

Higher loft relative to diameter(knot size) = softer face feel/tendency to splay more or feel floppy/better lather release 

Lower loft relative to diameter = scrubbier face feel/tendency to splay less/tendency to retain lather 

The two factors which affect the above equations are density and type of hair.  The denser the knot, the more a relatively high lofted knot will have properties of a lower lofted knot.  The stiffer the hair, the less density is needed. 2 band hair tends to be stiffer than 3 band hair.

So: your Duke 3 is a relatively dense 3-band knot with a fairly low loft relative to its diameter.  It is known to good for face lathering, with its relatively short/small handle.

If you would like to continue to bowl lather primarily, I would recommend a brush with a larger/longer handle which would be more comfortable to use in a bowl.  Face feel is less important for bowl lathering because you are only using the brush to apply the lather, which is done with painting strokes.

A higher lofted brush is better for bowl lathering IMHO.

My recommendation would be the Stirling 24mm Fan brush (2-band) if you are going a budget route, or a Paladin Chief if you are going top shelf.

11 972
Reply
 08-03-2017, 07:04 PM
#13
User Info
Also, if you want a brush that builds lather in seconds, get a synthetic.  They don't have the same feel as badger but they make lather more quickly than any other kind of brush. And they dry out in an hour.  And they cost 12 bucks.

11 972
Reply
 08-03-2017, 09:15 PM
#14
User Info
(08-03-2017, 06:27 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: As Celestino states and as I wrote to you in my long PM's - no matter how much you ask, you will not get wiser from advice from dozens of people with different skin type, lather preferences, water hardness, skin sensitivy etc.

You can continue to ask all day long, you will get more and more confused, the more people you ask the same question.

Some hate rough brushes, others love them.
Some face lather, some bowl lather - completely different preferences.

ONLY ONE WAY TO KNOW: BUY & TRY !

Hi Claus,

Oh for sure. Thank you for the advice. I'm asking in this thread because I fundamentally didn't quite understand the 4 key parameters in the brush. It would do me no good to start a Shavemac Customized Brush if I didn't even understand the basics (height, diameter, brush loft, etc.). So that's why I asked here. Smile

Now that I'm getting a basic understanding, I'll start trying out brushes in different parameters, but I wanted to get a basic understanding first. Wink

Thanks!

3 298
Reply
 08-03-2017, 09:17 PM
#15
User Info
Thanks for the thoughts, surfshaver! Good to know.

3 298
Reply
 08-04-2017, 04:05 PM
#16
User Info
all my big boy brushes are drying quite fast in this weather. 108 degrees in western oregon nuts!

76 1,331
Reply
 08-04-2017, 04:42 PM
#17
User Info
IMHO, you shouldn't order a custom until you get a feel for what you like. This is why Simpsons, Thäter, the regular Shavemac line, paladin, etc are all suggested. In fact, I believe the only reason to get a custom is when you want something not ordinarily produced (say, a lower than average loft or a unique handle shape/color). Something to keep in mind: your preferences may change over time, and brushes you don't expect to like may thrill you.

Enjoy the exploration!

29 1,207
Reply
 08-04-2017, 04:55 PM
#18
User Info
(08-03-2017, 09:15 PM)shave_knight Wrote:
(08-03-2017, 06:27 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: As Celestino states and as I wrote to you in my long PM's - no matter how much you ask, you will not get wiser from advice from dozens of people with different skin type, lather preferences, water hardness, skin sensitivy etc.

You can continue to ask all day long, you will get more and more confused, the more people you ask the same question.

Some hate rough brushes, others love them.
Some face lather, some bowl lather - completely different preferences.

ONLY ONE WAY TO KNOW: BUY & TRY !

Hi Claus,

Oh for sure. Thank you for the advice. I'm asking in this thread because I fundamentally didn't quite understand the 4 key parameters in the brush. It would do me no good to start a Shavemac Customized Brush if I didn't even understand the basics (height, diameter, brush loft, etc.). So that's why I asked here. Smile

Now that I'm getting a basic understanding, I'll start trying out brushes in different parameters, but I wanted to get a basic understanding first. Wink

Thanks!

I'm just trying to tell you the truth as it is.

I was like you in 2011, where I searched for the magic advice, so I could buy the perfect brush in one take and not look back.

I ended up buying literally 100's of expensive badgers, followed all the hype lemming stuff, bought a dozen Simpson Chubby 2's in different hair types, because everyone told me the handle was awesome for them, while I found it small'ish and unergonomic, I still followed the hype like a blind brainless lemming.

Bought 7-8 Simpson Chubby 3's, the handle was great, but for me the knot out of control. Still bought them for 1000's of dollars.

Today all my many Simpson's are sold.
Same with Morris & Forndran brushes. All sold.

Don't miss them one tiny bit.

Regret chasing the red dragon now, always thinking I had to love what other people loved.

Since I don't bowl lather, I can not give you direct advice in that direction.

But here is my advice:
  • Knot size: Smaller knot size is more precise, but holds less lather. Bigger knot size is more luxurious in feel, but can feel out of control  
  • Hair length: Shorter loft means a more stiff feel, higher loft means a more soft but also floppy feel. But a stiff hair type might NEED a high loft in order to be comfortable to use (Shavemac D01 2-band for example). I typically like my bulb knots in higher loft (2-3 mm higher) than the same hair type knots in fan shape, because fan shaped knots are softer and larger in feel and size, when they bloom.
  • Handle diameter: Handle diametere means nothing in regards to how the knot performs. The handle has to fit one person, and one person only: YOU  
  • Handle height: Handle height is of some importance. If you have larger hands, a short handle might feel uncomfortable. Also face lathers might prefer a somewhat shorter handle. but other face latheres like a longer handle too. So again to prove my point - there is no point, only YOU, not what others might or might not like. If you however bowl lather, it is of some importance to get a handle with some length to it for obvious reasons, especially if your bowl is deep.
      
 Hope this helps you a bit.

24 6,018
Reply
 08-05-2017, 12:53 PM
#19
User Info
(08-03-2017, 08:44 AM)celestino Wrote: * Knot size = the larger the knot, the more face feel you'll experience; the more product you'll use; the longer the time it will take to generate lather; the longer the time it takes to dry

* Hair length (I presume you are implying Loft) = the higher the loft, the less backbone you may encounter (depending on the grade of hair); the opposite would also be true.

* Handle diameter = the larger the diameter, the larger the feel in your hand; this might be a positive or negative depending on the size of your hand; it is all about comfort, for you.

* Handle height = same concept as the diameter, except in a vertical direction; it is all about how comfortable a handle feels in your hand. 

Unfortunately, you won't be able to fully understand all of this unless you try different brushes/knots/handles, but these are general ideas. 
Good luck.  Shy

+1

4 647
Reply
 08-05-2017, 04:35 PM
#20
  • SCOV
  • Active Member
  • Minnesota
User Info
If your 2nd brush turns out to be the "holy grail of shaving brushes", probably "dumb luck".  Everyone is different.

The Wolf Whiskers order form (if you get lucky and on the wait list) says "don't over think".  Brad Sears has bowl lathering and face lathering sections for brushes.  

My first brush was an Edwin Jagger best badger smaller size.  Nice brush and used daily for 3+ years.  My 2nd brush was a Mervyn Cadman custom - C4 handle using some Purple Rain pigment to honor Prince - vaguely recall silvertip and he also chose the loft and knot size.  The brush is special because of Mervyn's good service and "dumb luck".  

Hope your 2nd brush is "special" !!

5 427
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)